just a thread suggestion

[terrox]

With all these changes to biped's adventure classes and all the threads about them on talk to the team . When is the thread appear on Talk to the team to talk about Dragon and to make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike ? If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

[Arzel Rashemi]

Do we really need another biped vs. dragon thread?

[terrox]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread . and I am not meaning that . most my friends are Dragons and they have been a livetime research hooby of mine . but a thread can get both the changes some of them keep saying they would like !

[AmonGwareth]

I'd certainly be open to suggestions, but we've discussed at length with players what can be done with Dragons many times over the last several years. Sadly the single school is very limiting and the inability to alter certain abilities is also very limiting. But, feel free to throw out suggestions and discuss it with everyone.

[terrox]

so may we please see a thread under Talk to the team : Dragons

[Alisto]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread

If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

Could quite easily be read as, "Bipeds are getting nerfs so why can't dragons be nerfed too?"

Handing out 'nerfs' to dragons just because bipeds are getting some seems like a really shaky reason for doing it.

[Alisto]

Ohh *throws suggestion(s) around*


The main think I'd like to see is the damage moved around. I (as a dragon) don't want the vast majority of my damage coming from gold rage. Sitting there and clicking one button forever and ever is not fun. I'd like to see gold rage get a damage decrease and other abilities get an increase to compensate.

The problem, I think, is that Gold Rage hits so hard and then that is all people see. They don't see our other abilities doing terrible (please keep in mind I've not mentioned any specific abilities besides gold rage. Dragon's do have some abilities that are ok damage-wise).

[terrox]

suggestion 1 .. Get rid of hoard on a dragon for combat . A dragon's Rage was fueled by his / hers hatred of other living beings and their distrust and grew as they grew older and meaner
PS hoard was used more by bipeds for combat to buy new weapons and to fund better armies and defensives..why not put a monetary value on hoard also .

suggestion 2 Dragon's breath Thru lore dragons only ever had 1 type of breath weapon ( except for Hydras) . Have a dragon at creation decide what type of dragon they want to be and have their breath weapon grow as they grow to the point that they are a force to deal with ( burning down a village with 1 breath )

suggestion 3 Rop like many I aqm growing tired of all the complaining over if powerleveling is right or wrong . you have set a level a dragon must be at before they can start their Rop .. why not do the same thing but set it for their quests ( adventure and craft ) . this way they must also have finished certain quests also before being allowed to start their Rop

these are just my opinions and I mean no disrespect to my dragon friends or other dragons .. I welcome your replies

[Hoberton]

these are just my opinions and I mean no disrespect to my dragon friends or other dragons .. I welcome your replies

I like your suggestions, terrox. A couple of my own:

Put counters on most that is required for RoP and ARoP. This way the only way a Dragon can actual do either is complete them on their own without someone else powerleveling them through the entire ritual.

Make hoard attuned to the Dragons that battles and loots the mob by themselves, (No more free handouts).

[Arzel Rashemi]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread . and I am not meaning that . most my friends are Dragons and they have been a livetime research hooby of mine . but a thread can get both the changes some of them keep saying they would like !

make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike

The only way in which I can think of a dragon being invincible and godlike is in the amount of DP they tend to rack up when faced with things like carrion crawlers, and anything with a multi-strike. Yes, I admit, my dragon is god of DP. It comes with the dragon, and I'd like to think of it as a thing of charm rather than a hinderance, really.

Researching a class isn't the same as playing it. I'm inclined to agree with alisto's post based on this:

If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

That pretty much says to me that this is a biped vs. dragon thread rather than a discusson on changes to dragons, of which there has been one started about a very recent nerf/change to dragons which has had no response from devs.

I'm also inclined to agree with Amon. The whole issue of dragon abilities and all was discussed before in threads over the years, and its a very limited thing with regards to balance in the single school. Now if dragons had multi adventure schools then things might be different, but that isn't going to happen. Its reasons are covered here.

Alisto, my dear friend, all i have to say is that my agreement with your view is mixed. While I agree that when people who don't play dragons look at a dragon and all they see is the GR without thought given to the other complexities within our rather limited single school, I disagree that changing GR is going to be a good solution to that. GR was discussed in changes earlier and there's no way the majority of dragon players want GR touched. If they change GR, then there would be issues that would need to be dealt with and rectified between the different builds of dragon in that one single school. Something which is more impossible than possible to do. It brings up a whole subject that's all been covered in this thread.

All the changes and everything that could possibly be discussed for dragons has been done before, backwards, forwards, and sideways even. Because dragons have a single adventure school there is only so much discussion that can take place to cover it all. If dragons had multiple classes then the discussions would have to cover more as there would be more schools to cover.

[AryaStrongClaw]

I understand that part of the lore of Istaria is not the actual lore of the true dragon that one has learned about and studied. I agree, that some of the things should be adjusted as well. I also agree with Hob and Terrox. Granted yes we do have limitations and requirements to get a dragon from hatchling to Ancient hood, but I also think that besides the required lvl 30 adventure and lvl 20 min craft for Lunus and lvl 40-50 adventure and lvl 40-45 craft for Helian, there should also be quest requirements. Yes for Ancient there are a few requirements for adventure only, but not craft, it is sad to see one lvl 20 to 30 in craft to become a ancient. I agree that we also should assist each other but no so far as doing everything for another "just so they can ascend" I have seen it way to many times. I love helping others complete their rights, and I enjoy helping others, but when one can not do things on their own, or have been powerlvled and do not know how to use their char, that is when I see there is something wrong. I have multiple characters, and I even have of both fractions in dragons. Either way I enjoy playing my dragons, but I have worked hard to learn and help where I can.

[Guaran]

With all these changes to biped's adventure classes and all the threads about them on talk to the team . When is the thread appear on Talk to the team to talk about Dragon and to make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike ? If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

Actually, shouldn't the post read:
When is the thread appear on Talk to the team to talk about Bipeds and to make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike ? If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they probably need more nerfs, as the multiclassed gods walking among us are completely unrealistic.

Oop! dragon vs biped thread alright.

If you nerf dragons, the only balance will be to remove or severely restrict biped multiclassing. Other MMO's have a multiclassing where you can have 3 "souls" active at once. A limited set of "points" to distribute as you choose among the three. So, something similar could be implemented and bipeds could be limited to three schools. Then they would have to carefully choose their schools, and the schools themselves would be more meaningful.

Or we can skip the petty he has a toy X, why can't I have it?

Why can't bipeds fly?

Why can't bipeds have the same abilities that Valkor has?

Why can't dragons have the same abilities that Reklar has?

[Radamanthas]

<snip>

Make hoard attuned to the Dragons that battles and loots the mob by themselves, (No more free handouts).

I like this idea, but haven't been able to figure a way around preventing an ancient from grouping a hatchling and allowing the hatchie to loot the hoard from T5-T6 mobs.

What I would ultimately like to see, regarding RoP and ARoP is stricter requirements for both. Perhaps something like the following...

For RoP (both Lunus and Helian):

Adventure Level = 50
Crafting OR Lairshaping Level = 50
(Attuned) Hoard = 1,000,000

For ARoP (Helian and Lunus):

Adventure Level = 100
Crafting OR Lairshaping Level = 100
(Attuned) Hoard = 25,000,000

this would both a) make the new dragon actually work for adulthood, and b) keep their hoard on par with required level to maintain full armor bonus...

But like I said...trick would be in finding a way to guaranteed that the hatchie would have to get/loot the hoard by themselves...

My 2 sheckals....

[Calyndrell]

How about a perfect spell for dragon casters?

[LOVWYRM]

The intention of the original (first) post seems destructive and cynically to me.
Sorry to say so my friend.
Though I share the biped grief-
I`m not going to jump into this- Arzel and Guaran found the right words already

[starlight]

definitely NO attuned hoard there is more than enough attune things we do not need more things attuned. some people most likely new players can put hoard on Connie for some coin, making it attuned would probly take away income for new players. No to restricting multi classing that is one factor that made this game unique. I don't play a dragon character personally so I have limited knowledge of abilities.

[starlight]

as for bipeds there is no invincible or godlike biped currently. never was anything close to it. just having many lv 100 classes does not make anything close to invincible or godlike. knowing how each class works and what class works best in a given situation puts odds in favor of the biped but again does by no means makes them godlike I am sorry in advance but that statement actually annoys me when I hear it whether it be towards biped or dragons

[starlight]

as for bipeds there is no invincible or godlike biped currently. never was anything close to it. just having many lv 100 classes does not make anything close to invincible or godlike. knowing how each class works and what class works best in a given situation puts odds in favor of the biped but again does by no means makes them godlike I am sorry in advance but that statement actually annoys me when I hear it whether it be towards biped or dragons

[Cilok]

Terrox, one thing you said really doesn't add up. You said you researched dragons a lot, however these are Istarian dragons and not regular dragons of mythology/legend. They have their own unique lore (which you would know if you read the information during Trials of the Gifted for the Knowledge portion). So your preconceived ideas about where they draw their power from, as well as your idea for retaining a single breath attack per character, have no ground to stand on in this game.

I especially want to shoot down your single breath attack type, as that severely limits the elements dragons can attack with. While magic-based bipeds can use a variety of spell types (fire, frost, energy, nature, mind, etc), dragons are limited to primal spells and a single main attack for fire, frost, energy, and whatever acid breath counts as. Your suggestion would cut out 3/4 of the variety that dragons have for damage type.


Your post seems to be entirely made on preconceived notions of dragons legends outside of Istaria, in addition to being made out of spite that bipeds are getting nerfs. If you really do feel that dragons are so OP that they need nerfs, I strongly encourage you to create a dragon and go through without help from anyone (even for the RoP), then tell us how OP dragons are when they have no crowd-control skills and fall relatively easily to a group of 3 same-level mobs.

[Northwind]

Weird enough i found my biped more resilient than my dragon in terms of armor/evade/block/parry.
Also even more weirder - if it is even possibly - he seems to be able to run sensibly faster than my ancient can fly.

The advantages dragon had over my biped were mainly the sheer damage output due to Gold Rage and the ability to fly out of a combat anytime he needed to.

I remember a certain fight between my dragon teamed with my ped playing as cleric that happened sometime ago when Soggie had 140000 hitpoints and was hitting for 1000-1500 easily. Due to a long streak of stuns being resisted/missed while Soggie managed to score some of his big hits in, the fight turned out very dramatic. I won in the end (a pike of course) but at the price of 5-6 Death Points for my dragon and 0 (that is zero) deaths for my ped.