just a thread suggestion

[starlight]

cleric has 6 heal spells vs dragon having 1 heal spell and I am excluding the heal over time spells and instant heal

[Azath]

I've scanned the posts and here is my feedback on what i've seen:

Making hoard attunebale? no, no no no~ One great thing about hoard is that you can give it away!


regaurding ARoP/RoP requirments:

ARoP requirements are fine as they are, almost, my only wish is that dragon craft level should be atleast 50. So many lazy ancients about jsut gets annoying - we're meant to help hatchlings along, how can we do that properly with such a low craft level as 25-30?

RoP requirements NEED change imo.
lv30 adults are just hatchlings with wings i think, they don't even do the rites, someone else does it for them because of the lower level.
My suggestion?
lv40/30 requirement. at these levels it gets possible to do atleast some things alone and you can atcually hit what you need to kill.
Also, add quest requirements. reflecting that of the ARoP; the quest requirements would be 1 teir below minimum level to start them.


Changing GR goes into the dark path of dragon v biped. All i'll say on the matter is that bipeds have a HUGE advantage over dragons; whether PvP or PvE, GR makes this a little more balanced. If it doesn't go down the dragon v biped path, it goes down the melee v caster path, a dark one too, which has been discussed many times, changing GR affects both styles badly - espcially casters. (i said too much on the matter hehe)


I think Arzel and Amon already said it - all the changes have been done before, making big chnages requires more than one school, mor etha one school means changes to current, chnages to current we don't want.

*sees large amounts of typos in this post...to lazy to change them*

[Tondargaet_Glit]

Really too new to have much of an opinion...my hatchling is rapidly approaching ADV/CRA 40/40, and has done so with a LOT of advice and suggestions, as well as physical assistance on a few occasions (thank you, Guildies and friends!).

Regarding the RoP....why not make the final Tempered Scale Quest a requirement before one can begin RoP? I'm using that as a personal goal before I begin my Rites, simply because it's halfway (in level, at least) to Ancient. While the hatchling could still get assistance in completing the Quest, they'd still need to be ADV50 before they could even GET it.

[EsmarnMcshipley]

was suggested by terrox to check out this thread, and after reading it over, while i cannot agree with everything thats been said, there is one big thing that strikes me as worthwhile: RoP/Ancient RoP needing adjusting so PL'ing hatchies isnt the norm anymore, hatchies should have to work for their RoP at least SOME and just getting Adventure/Craft to 30 or so each isnt much work considering the REAL work is done by high-level bipeds or dragons while the hatchie practically just lounges around in these cases

i think making Adventure/Craft needed to be lvl 50 each for hatchies to do RoP is somewhat reasonable, and also requiring hatchies to have done some of their quests to start or continue with RoP might be good, itll also help the hatchie depending on what quests would be required to be completed, for example adventure or craft quests from the trainers in Chiconis/Dralk for Dragons could not only allow the hatchie to have new/better combat or craft prowess, but also help with levelling adventure/craft in the process making it a bit less grindy to hit 50 adventure/craft

[terrox]

To all you narrowminded and asskissing dragons ( and you know who you are )that replied to this post and say I was making a biped vs dragon thread you are wrong .... It was your chance to send a message to the devs to tell them don't Screw with Dragons like you are doing with biped classes , but all you saw was your own ignorance . this might not happen due to dragon is the only toon you have to pay for and can't ghave a free account. I am sure I am now banned from forums for good . and FYI I have had 2 dragon accounts and have cancelled them in a week cause I found they were boring and they disgraced the lore of a dragon and made them weak

[EsmarnMcshipley]

edit: nevermind

[Aleron]

In all honesty...most of you read this thread and think its a Dragons vs. Bi-peds....but from what I gather here,this is only a suggestion as to a change on both sides....in all honesty,I myself would like to see the game get a full revamp....that's my suggestion

[Cilok]

and FYI I have had 2 dragon accounts and have cancelled them in a week cause I found they were boring and they disgraced the lore of a dragon and made them weak

Only thing you posted worth replying to is bolded above. I'll say it again, these are Istarian dragons with their own lore, NOT your traditional dragons of legend that you researched. If you were so close-minded to not even consider learning the lore of the dragon race in Istaria, that is your loss, but don't start proposing major changes that break dragons and go against the established lore in the game itself (the only lore that matters in this case).

[terrox]

and Guaran what is your problem with a multi classes bipeds ? Bipeds have always worked at improving their skills throughout history and all other games .. it is what makes us unique .. even in RL you must have had more than 1 job and you use all your knowledge to make you the worker and best person you can be .. just cause a biped can keep on learning new classes does NOT make them Godlike or invincible it make them more knowledgable and skillful in their classes

[EsmarnMcshipley]

in istaria theres never been such a thing as an invincible player who cant be beat, biped OR dragon, so terrox has a point there

edit: and yes, aleron, alot of people seem to have misinterpreted what terrox was intending this thread to be about

[hallucin8]

To all you narrowminded and asskissing dragons... It was your chance to send a message to the devs to tell them don't Screw with Dragons

Oh wow.. just wow...

Your original post offers nothing more than a whinge, no suggestion, no positive comments, just a smart-alecky whine. So yes, people jumped at you for it and read it as biped V dragon, cause that's all you said. It just sounds like you're being sarcastic.

In all the last 10 years, I've only ever seen improvements to dragons. Aside from some changes mentioned elsewhere, they have only ever gotten stronger, just not in the ways some might have liked.

So if you actually have a point to make, or a suggestion, just say it and move on.

[terrox]

and again Cilok this post was your chance to speak up against changes that could hurt dragons but I guess we now know what type of dragon you are

[Steelclaw]

Wow. This thread went sour pretty fast. There are some pretty inflammatory statements made here, and I hope those get edited out, or the rest of the useful content moved to another thread where more civilized discussion may continue.

That aside, I notice there's a pretty common theme here about making the dragon game[1] harder on the new players.

suggestion 3 Rop like many I aqm growing tired of all the complaining over if powerleveling is right or wrong . you have set a level a dragon must be at before they can start their Rop .. why not do the same thing but set it for their quests ( adventure and craft ) . this way they must also have finished certain quests also before being allowed to start their Rop

Put counters on most that is required for RoP and ARoP. This way the only way a Dragon can actual do either is complete them on their own without someone else powerleveling them through the entire ritual.

Make hoard attuned to the Dragons that battles and loots the mob by themselves, (No more free handouts).

I agree that we also should assist each other but no so far as doing everything for another "just so they can ascend" I have seen it way to many times. I love helping others complete their rights, and I enjoy helping others, but when one can not do things on their own, or have been powerlvled and do not know how to use their char, that is when I see there is something wrong.

I like this idea, but haven't been able to figure a way around preventing an ancient from grouping a hatchling and allowing the hatchie to loot the hoard from T5-T6 mobs.

What I would ultimately like to see, regarding RoP and ARoP is stricter requirements for both. Perhaps something like the following...

RoP requirements NEED change imo.
lv30 adults are just hatchlings with wings i think, they don't even do the rites, someone else does it for them because of the lower level.

RoP/Ancient RoP needing adjusting so PL'ing hatchies isnt the norm anymore, hatchies should have to work for their RoP at least SOME and just getting Adventure/Craft to 30 or so each isnt much work

Given that Istaria isn't a PvP game, why does it matter to a bystander that a dragon had their adulthood given to them on a gold platter? That's a serious question -- I've seen plenty of explanations like "they should work for it", but that "should" is not qualified with any further explanation. Please dig deep and try to come up with an answer that does not involve some presumption of equality or fairness, as those concepts mean vastly different things to different people.

Me, I have no problem with inexperienced hatchlings becoming adults solely with the work of others. I'm not obligated to participate in the frustration of leading a fragile hatchling through its RoP. Also, the player will learn the dragon game just as well as an adult with wings as they would a hatchling without wings. None of what another player does (or gets to skip) will change my memories and sense of accomplishment.


Notes:
1. At least in the Tulga days, dragons and bipeds were thought of as separate play experiences that took place in the same world. Until someone on the design team says otherwise, the apparent disparity between dragons and bipeds will make sense as long as you think of dragons and bipeds as separate experiences, and not dragons as a funny-looking biped race.

[Cilok]

and again Cilok this post was your chance to speak up against changes that could hurt dragons but I guess we now know what type of dragon you are

No, this post was you whining that bipeds were getting nerfs and you wanted to see dragons get nerfs too. That's all you said in the OP. I only spoke up against the breath attack change you proposed because (1) no one else talked about it, and (2) others said everything I had to say about the other ideas proposed.

Now, since you have admitted to having no real experience with a dragon, kindly stop pressing for dragon changes to be discussed since nothing you say can be taken seriously due to an extreme lack of knowledge and prejudice against the current Istarian lore not aligning with your own personal view of what a dragon should be. If you really don't like the way the dragon lore is developed in this game, you have 2 choices: (1) don't play a dragon, or (2) quit Istaria and make your own game with the preconceived dragon lore you came in here with that has clouded your judgment and ability to appreciate the effort taken by the devs to create an MMO with some of the richest history and most cohesive story I have seen in the genre.

[Northwind]

@Steelclaw - i guess vets are just fed with the requests "i just got lvl 30 adv and 25 crafting, so now help me get my wings and do the rop for me" followed by various questions put by lvl 100 dragons that denote sheer ignorance of the class due to the fact that they were powerleveled all the way, rop included.

I just simply ignored such requests, but i have to admit that i would kinda like to see RoP requirement level increased to 50.

Regarding this thread: i hate nerfs as much as anyone else and Terrox has a point - peds were kinda getting some nerfs in one way or another. Some were reverted, but only temporary.

[Azath]

That aside, I notice there's a pretty common theme here about making the dragon game[1] harder on the new players.

Given that Istaria isn't a PvP game, why does it matter to a bystander that a dragon had their adulthood given to them on a gold platter? That's a serious question -- I've seen plenty of explanations like "they should work for it", but that "should" is not qualified with any further explanation. Please dig deep and try to come up with an answer that does not involve some presumption of equality or fairness, as those concepts mean vastly different things to different people.

Me, I have no problem with inexperienced hatchlings becoming adults solely with the work of others. I'm not obligated to participate in the frustration of leading a fragile hatchling through its RoP. Also, the player will learn the dragon game just as well as an adult with wings as they would a hatchling without wings. None of what another player does (or gets to skip) will change my memories and sense of accomplishment.

They made the game for dragons harder on 'new players' already, last year in the lesser aradoth revamp :P the lesser aradoth dragon ability quests are the hardest dragon quests a dragon gets compared to level you get them. So that's another suggestion of mine! Make lesser aradoth dragon quests easier compared to level one takes them. Never seen a new player get through those quests alone yet, yet when they get to lv20 they may only need directions for II quests.

Next of all, there is a problemw ith handing a hatchling their adulthood on a gold platter.
I'll tell you about my first two rites, both happened in the sense of someone who hasn't made their mark yet, someone who was new to the rites. (due to one helian, one lunus. and the first time a char which didn't stay, the second time a char which did stay):
First rite was done at lv30/36. All i did that time was follow those larger than myself, wander around gaining dp, when i wasn't gaining dp i was protected. The only thing i did myself was gather silver golem fragments. When i exploded, sure, i was happy! But it didn't give me much accomplishment...the only thing i'd done myself was talk to things and get some golem fragments...that isn't much to celebrate about i think.
Now, my second rite was much better. Done at 56/34. I was much happier doing my rites then, because i could actually kill things! You know, you get a big sense of accomplishment when you can batter down the enslavers alone, when you can kill things alone that hatchlings with wings can't. Not to mention, the proud feeling that you got to a higher level than a lv35 adult.

And that's just about the feeling of accomplishment.

Generally, i find more people willing to help a "strong" hatchling over a "weak" hatchling, probably because the stronger hatchling has probably atlest tried to kill something itself, whereas the wak hatchling again..only needs to talk to poeple and take bricks, nothing else. It isn't the hatchlings rite of passage when everyhting is killed for them, it's the those who help who're doing the rite of passge. :P
They "should" work for it because, as i know, the rite of passage is meant to be the passage between hathcling and adult not hatchlng to hatchling with wings, it's supposed to be a special event, and the paths are supposed to be something you have actually work for to get through, they're supposed to be hard to complete and only the worthiest hatchlings would in theory get through it, and when the ascend, they've really gained something, they've really gained a great gift, the gift of flight. Sadly, my definition of the rites is slowly turning to "It's supposed to be soemhting you sit back and watch other people do for you, you're supposed to run around and be bored because you can't do anything yourself, you're supposed to have other people earn you your wings" (sounds mean, but that's what it is with lv30 hatchlings)