The Severe Injustice of Balance between the Dragon Race and the bipedal Races.

[Vesuvius]

So that the vault thread is not hijacked.

[Vesuvius]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]evilkarl wrote: If you want to compare dragons to bipeds (which you shouldn't) compare a single schooled battle mage to a dragon. They are both the masters of eight (except for those few quests dragons have that give them equivilant to 9/level).


Umm, I dont think so. Its time for bipeds to wake up and smell the coffee. There are no classes in this game. There are bipeds that use multiple schools to gainskills and abilities and their are dragons that have hoard and a single school. Not only that, bipeds have a great deal more equipment slots that progress at a faster rate in stats than the 10 slots a dragon has.

It is a perfectly fair comparison. I am tired of bipeds acting like multiclassing is a rare occurrance.

A biped character holds the potential to infinitely progress (realistically), able to have more hit points, more armor, and more damage than a dragon character that is MAXED out. I cannot, I repeat, cannot progress anyfarther beyond my next set of scales and techs on my scales. Even after this is done, Ican still be outclassed in everyway by a biped.

There is a /severe/ imbalance between dragons and bipeds on multiple levels. They CAN be compared. I garantee if dragons were super uber, you would have bipeds screaming bloody murder that they were not powerful enough.

The problem is not with the DRAGON SCHOOL it is a problem with the options/capabilites of theDRAGON RACE versus ANY biped RACE. Hoard, equipement, questlines, and a way to continue to progress after 100/100/100 are needed for the dragon RACE.

[Vesuvius]

(Maltavorn)


Actually I have seen paw hunting solo many times and thrown him a few buffs.

*sigh* Yes, I know, Zodias. I have seen him hunting solo as well.

HOWEVER, the *point* is that he *farms* forms in a group with bipeds. Solo, he doesn't get anywhere near the quantity of forms that he does in a group with bipeds. No Draogn does. You see Devilin out hunting for forms? No. He is on his bug, Vendilin, farming the hell out of the WA mobs in the deadlands satyr isles. Why? because he CAN, and can do it FAR better than Devilin could EVER hope to do. Yeah, yeah, insert standard rebuttal of "play an uber biped instead" here. Why should I HAVE to? Why can I not expect to see some equity come from the character (which is SUPPOSED to be a powerhouse) I chose to play? The one I have been working hard on for a year now, and expect to continue?

But hey he has one adventure school the adventures that can farm lots of forms have 2 or 3 adventure schools. You expect as a SINGLE school dragon to perform as well as someone with 2 or 3 schools? Then you are dreaming.

Yes, actually, I do. It is a horrendous imbalance in the game system that needs to be corrected. Since multiclassing is grandfathered, the developers really have no choice but to buff Dragons, as nerfing bipeds and their (rather absurd) ability to multiclass just won't happen (nor do I expect it at this point; maybe if it were still in beta, but it is far too late at this juncture).

No, I am not dreaming. I pay to play the game, just as you do, just as anyone else here does. Why should I be forced to live a substandard game life simply for the race I chose to play (which is supposed to be superstandard, if you believe all the lousy game hype)? Why can I not seek to achieve the same level of effectiveness as any other character race/class? Why is that such a crime around here? Are my hours of gaming effort expended worth less than yours or those of anyone else?

Adults I agree should be stronger but exactly how strong?

It is a question of balance. As a hatchling, I had no problem being weaker than most if not all bipeds I adventured with; after all, I am a child still. My stance before the RoP was released is that, yes, hatchlings sucked, and that it was appropriate. However, adults had better be at least on par with bipeds, and ancients should be (as the game hype continually reiterates) "a force to be reckoned with". What this boils down to is "hatchlings are supposed to suck (< bipeds), adults are supposed to do well (= bipeds), and ancients are supposed to rock (> bipeds)". In addition, the journey to ancient is supposed to be hard; I accept that. I have no problem with having to go "the harder road" and can play for the long term (I am still here, aren't I?), but the reward better ******** well be worth the effort.

I sucked it down as a hatchling, with a smile on my face. Now, as an adult, I am still sucking it down, though I am at least getting a swallow of water between mouthfuls. I have all but hit the ceiling that any Adult can EVER achieve as a Dragon (not considering level cap raises and hoard maxing). We're all aware of the specific issues that Dragons have, so I won't go into them here. Just suffice it to say that the net effect right now is that we are "second class" creatures in Istaria, and often get treated as such (which is the worst part).

As an Ancient, things had better change from this trend. Even if Ancients are the creatures of Istarian legend that they are supposed to be, Adults need some buffing, because as it is right now, hatchlings < bipeds, adults < bipeds, and ancients =? bipeds. That is just wrong.

And, yes, I realize that some Dragon players out there are quite happy with the current state of Dragons, and I am happy for them. However, I hope they realize that, even though they don't have to agree with me, that for which I am fighting will benefit them as well, and thus hope such is taken into consideration before they turn the flamethrower onto me.

[Seranthor]

Vesuvius, ok... precisely what is your specific recommendations to resolve your perceived 'imbalance' between dragons and biped?... please be as specific and detailed as possible.. I'm very very very interested in this.

[evilkarl]

Name me a single biped class that can do melee hits for >1k, Have 4 hots, 4 aoe spells, a bolt its own buffs. You can't because no biped class is as much of a generalist

Do I think its enough No. Should dragons be stronger Yes. Should it require more effort that present Maybe.

On the HP issue adult dragons base poetential is 200 more than a biped due to the boost from becomming an adult.

On armour I hate the way a dragon gets its scales personally I think its stupid. Scales do provide more protection than cloth and leather and the boost from a full hoard brings them upto the level of chain.

On stats while at present it may not be true once all the quests are in dragons will have 9/level for all skills. No biped class gets the that. While personally I think dragons should be getting 10/level in t&c, primal and scale craft as they are the only ones who do it. More HP and strength and better hoard level bonuses are other things I think dragons should get as adults as well

Multiclassing does allow bipeds to become much stronger but when choosing to be a dragon you knew you would not have that option. Do I think a dragon should be as strong as someone who has 2 or 3 schools Perhaps as an ancient when they have gone through the same amount of effort as it takes a biped.

To summarise
- Dragon adv gets more than any biped
- I do think dragons should be stronger
- I do get sick of seeing dragons complain they are not as strong as someone who has put in the time to level 2 or more adv schools
- I do think dragons should get more HP/Str than any other race
- I do think scales need to be redone.

These are of course all my own opinions and feel free to take them with a grain of salt.

[Vesuvius]

Do not overgeneralize our abilities to make them sound better than what they are.

The first thing you mention is gold rage. Gold Rage ONLY does that kind of damage if the dragon specifically specs themselves for melee damage, sacrificing both primal and tanking ability by alot. Not only that, but gold rage is not a free attack. It costs hoard and it doesnt automatically hit. It is quite possible to waste 640 hoard for a triple miss and this DOES happen. A dragon cannot afford to use gold rage all the time.

Overall, a biped will easily outdamage a dragon. Do not give me stupid examples of 'well if a monk and a dragon ect'. I am talking about a dragon at the top of his game versus a biped at the upper portion of his (three 100s in strong schools including cleric or healer).

4 HoTs? Ok, first of all its more like 2 HoTs and they only last 30seconds with a 1minute recharge (no reason to use the lower more gimp versions). The best one gives 6 tics of 72 or so hp for a total of 572hp, the second best one gives about 55 a tic for 6 tics, making 330 hp. That means in one minute if they were perfectly timed, you could get a total of 902hp. This is not even close to what two TIV muchless, V revitalizes could do in a minutes time and those are direct heals.

4 AoE spells. Correct. I have no complaints about the AoE spells, I feel they are balanced. Though this is not to say that dragons could use abit more in the magic category.

The full hoardwith armor scales just to match chain really irks me. You have absolutely NO idea what kind of effort it takes to max out hoard. It easily compares to leveling up two more 100 classes in time and effort, possibly more. Not only that the grind is painstakingly boring andthe rewards for hoard are pathetic. This is one of the main causes to why dragons are subpar.

Once again, you are arguing as if I am comparing the dragon class to a biped class. You are failing to comprehend the point that this is not aclass injustice, but a race injustice. I could care less what a reaver or an elemental archer is capable of. I could careless that I cannot multiclass. You are assuming things that I have not stated. What I do care about is that after all the effort I have put into my character, after I have reached the point where he can no longer progress, I am easily outmatched by biped characters that have put likewise effort into theirs. I care about not being able to put any additional effort in and bipeds can continue to.

Make no mistake in hearing me when I say that I am not fighting to have the dragon adventure class at 100 equal to a triple multiclassed biped. That is stupid and easy. Understand that what I am asking for is that when I am level 100, have all of my quests done, the best equipment I can wear, and have a MAXED hoard, I should be something to reckon with. Understand that right now, the strength of dragons should remain as it is for hatchlings. Understand that adults need a serious boost. Understand that after going through all of this, an anceint should be stronger than a biped and the effort it took to get there should be immense.

It is unnacceptable to say that because I chose to play a dragon, that because I play this game to play a dragon, that I must be forced to be subsatisfactory.

[Seranthor]

WHAT are you asking for specifically? I only see rantings.

[IndyMan]

but u can fly ! [:P]

[Fireclaw]

First, its not fair to compare a dragon to a single-classed biped. 99% of bipeds are mutliclassed, while 100% of dragons are single-classed. The only fair comparison is a multiclassed biped to a dragon, and in that comparison the dragon falls short.

Due to the lack of multiclassing, a dragon essentially increases in power until it hits level 100, then it stops regardless of how much effort is put in after that. On the other hand, a biped can continue to level other classes boosting its power into the stratosphere. This is a key imbalance. Whether its single-class or multiclass, dragon advancement should never just stop as it does now. It should continue so a dragon player can continue growing in power just like a biped.

Is it fair to compare a biped with 2 classes at level 100 to a single-classed level 100 dragon? Yes. Due to the extensive quests involved and slow pace of leveling at low levels, + hoard, it can easily take twice as long to level a dragon compared to a biped. If you count the time it takes to get an uber hoard like Vesuvius', a biped could probably have 4 or even 5 classes at level 100 (there's a reason why I believe only 3 dragons on all shards combined have level 100 hoards). Dragons take a lot of effort for comparitively little return in combat ability compared to bipeds.

AE should do something to correct this imbalance and ensure that dragons always have something to look forward to. Perhaps by adding multiclassing or simply raising the level cap to 200 for dragons. AE should be creative.

Most 100/100 dragons probably don't have much to do in the game right now. They are either hoarding, waiting for Ancient Rite of Passage, or lairs. Fact of the matter is that without multiclassing, it will be game over for many of these die-hard dragons next year when the level cap is raised, AROP is out, and lairs are out. With no further way to improve their characters I wouldn't be surprised if many of those dragons leave the game.

[Seranthor]

Is it fair to compare a biped with 2 classes at level 100 to a single-classed level 100 dragon? Yes.


Um... NO!... it takes the exact same amt of exp for a dragon to get to 100 adv as it takes a biped to get a single class to 100 adv... In fact it takes 2x as much exp for a biped to get 2 adv classes to 100 as it takes a dragon to get a to 100. If you want the abilities and such of a 2/3/4x 100 biped then you should have to invest the same adv exp. Anything less is absurd.

[Vesuvius]

Vesuvius, ok... precisely what is your specific recommendations to resolve your perceived 'imbalance' between dragons and biped?... please be as specific and detailed as possible.. I'm very very very interested in this.

There are manythings. Perhaps in answering your post, evilkarl may understand what I am talking about. I will go into detail with each later, this will work as a summary for now though.

I want to start off by saying minimal work needs to be done with the dragon adventurer school. This is not the source of the problem. For the effort it takes to get to 100, the rewards are for the most part worth it. Many bipeds like to argue this in saying that dragons are fine the way they are. Many bipeds do not understand that it is not the dragon school that presents the problem. Even some dragons do not realize this.

I say minimal work because there is some that does need to be done. I will go into detail on these further on as their own categories but these things do fall under changes taking place to the actual school: Magic in the form of spells and buffs, Spellbased equivilants to the melee specials, and gifts.

Work needs to be done to complete what questlines are out there, and make them in working order. A few lines need to be added, especially on the crafting side.

The majority of reworking needs to be done to hoard. The bonuses need to be different for hatchling, adult, and anceint and having a healthy hoard should be one of the most important parts of progressing the dragon character. A level 100 dragon with a level 30 hoard should be vastly different from a level 100 dragon with a 100 hoard.

Scales need to be reworked completely. This is the second place that seriously hurts the dragon race.

Breath weapons are another issue.

Something to build the character up with, after level and hoard are maxed. In my opinion an Alternate advancement/perk system would work well here.

Check back later tonight and I will have added at least one section to this. Note that no where in here do I suggest new dragon schools or multiclassing for dragons. There are plenty of things in existance already that can be used to balance dragons out and are important aspects of being a dragon that are way underpowered right now, namely hoard and scales.

[IndyMan]

Is it fair to compare a biped with 2 classes at level 100 to a single-classed level 100 dragon? Yes.


Um... NO!... it takes the exact same amt of exp for a dragon to get to 100 adv as it takes a biped to get a single class to 100 adv...

Though I do not play a dragon, in my opinion they should be as tough as a 2x100 toon when they have reached 100 and once they pass to ancient they should be equal to a 3x100 toon. Dragon should be nasty beasts to mess with, not easily trumped by other races.

[Seranthor]

Let me understand this correctly,

Dragons want the healing ability of a cleric, the tanking ability of a warrior, the evasion of a monk, the melee ability of a chaos warrior or bezerker, and the spell damage of a mage or spiritist AND the ability of flight. All for the effort of leveling a single class? Please. How about review your abilities and skills and then come back and make realistic positive suggestions on how to improve your class, without the p*ssing and moaning that your underpowered and mistreated.

Make this a constructive thread quickly before the Mods move this to Rants or Dragon only.

[Fireclaw]

Is it fair to compare a biped with 2 classes at level 100 to a single-classed level 100 dragon? Yes.


Um... NO!... it takes the exact same amt of exp for a dragon to get to 100 adv as it takes a biped to get a single class to 100 adv... In fact it takes 2x as much exp for a biped to get 2 adv classes to 100 as it takes a dragon to get a to 100. If you want the abilities and such of a 2/3/4x 100 biped then you should have to invest the same adv exp. Anything less is absurd.

You incorrectly assume that it takes the same time and effort to level a dragon to 100 as it takes to level a biped to 100 in one class. You are wrong:

1. To have a fully functional dragon at level 100 dragon you need to do dozens of adventurer quests which takes time, including ROP which takes a LOT of time.

2. You also need to spend a huge amount of time building up your hoard. Leveling up hoard takes at least as long as leveling up adventurer levels and probably even longer, while being much more boring and giving comparatively little benefit.

3. Furthermore, dragons at low levels are very weak, starting with only one useable equipment slot and no armor or hoard, so they tend to level up at low levels much slower than bipeds.

The bottom line is that it takes approximately the same TIME and effort to get TWO or even THREE biped adventurer classes to 100 as it takes a dragon to get just ONE adventurer class to 100, because the dragon has so much more it needs to do. Therefore, a comparison between a dual 100 biped and a 100 dragon is a fair one. And that only assuming the dragon has a hoard far below its level. In the same amount of time it takes to get a dragon to 100 with level 100 hoard, a biped could probably have 4 or more classes to level 100.

For the same TIME and EFFORT, a dragon should be comparable to a biped.

[Seranthor]

Do you not get adv or crafting exp for doing those dragon ability quests?
I think you do.

ROP takes a long time?
PLS I've seen it done in a weekend. Dont get me started on all the hatchlings in theirearly 30s that feel they are entitled to have their ROP handed to them and done for them.
Building up your hoard does take some effort, yet you get crafting exp for it as well.


Precisely how much crafting exp did you get for getting your hoard to max? I'd venture to say that you got to at least 50 DCRA on maxing your hoard, if not further.

Exactly for the REWARD you want the TIME and EFFORT should be comparable.

[Vahrokh]

Vesuvius, I stopped arguing about dragons having to be boosted etc some months ago when I realized it was pointless.

We are a last minute throw in, in an extraneous and already balanced in itself system.

Proof is that after a year we still miss even the basic graphics or sounds of most of our spells and abilities. That has nothing to do with being underpowered or something.
We were and are just not "done".

As the game evolves in the passing of the months you see another sign of its base philosophy.
From a really laughable boregame where all what you had to fear was a marrow we were tossed into a fragfest where now you must multiclass at least a bit.
Sure I know of several who stayed single class. Clerics, some paladins. Classes that are already "good on their own" in the only thing that is fundamental to have in this game: "heal early heal often". The others I know that dastardly continued with a pure class are either pure crafters who don't care much to adventure outside a blacksmith door or ... quit.

Now, to be anything goodyou must more or less be one of the "good known combos", the rest being used as "ability reserves", i.e. some level of monk, some level of mage etc.

Where do dragons go in this picture? They were very good and even "excessive" in the pre-world change Istaria.

Now, the hoard drops became as rare as an expert formula if not more (actually my guild mates find like 1 hoardable every 10 formulas) so we really have not to get a downtime hit and self craft it (trophys give like 1/20 back of what you'd need to have to conservatively use hoard moves).
The heal ability you get at level 87 (iirc) that once would let us compete with the best mobs is hugely better than the dots (not techable with heal stuff). Still MANY mobs, the good ones we need to kill in hundreds to make a single armor, ALL beat that better healing that anyway recycles in 5 minutes of downtime.
What does this mean overall? That the game evolved. The bipeds were forced to adapt (many quit the game tho') to the new hostile world. The dragons were already at their "top", so now they are "under". I tried SO many times to kill Veteran (I am not even talking about the tier VI mobs) WA mobs. And I got a death point every 2 undead due to them just owning me rudely. At level 100, with tier V armor scales and no healing, doing a lone level 97 monster giving me 454 damage a regular hit (not counting theobvious multistrike and other stuff) is just unfeasible when my best healing is good for half of it and expires in the middle (same for i.e. spiked scales. Lots ofbuff/debuffs/healings that don't last even half mob).
In the end I have to choose: use gold rage routinely but the hoard drops ceased to drop routinely or drop fighting the mobs completely. Which I chose to. I can for sure get more money (10x?) crafting enough to get 20 reagents from vielos than dreaming getting them off the mobs on the sathyr isles.


On the other hand, our craft school, differently than all the others, gives exactly 0 points of any stat like i.e. strength or focus / dex when you level up. Coupled with the non stellar increases we get a level even in our only specialties, this makes so that as dragon craft 100 I could not even smelt level 80 material (an entire tier below!) at 2:1.
As of now to make marble bricks 2:1 I must wear stoneworking scales IV and V and fully self buff and get tier V buffs. And this to make banal bricks. To make 3 teched Vscales I had to beg around so a biped in my birth city of Dralk would graciously give me buffs V so I could make scales within a skill point of minimum requirements (not optimal, minimum). Once again the lore, the legends and everything become: "you Lunus to make your only specialty thing beg biped in your own racial city". A logic follow up to the begging for the RoP. That by the way became so an hell to do that now we have level 50-59 (going for Lunus) hatchlings passing their days asking for help in many channels, in vain. Pawn runs are more important. Even offering money does no good and in the end I find more or less the same faces doing Kaa runs).

In the end there is just a single thing that counts: numbers.
Until March / April dragons were 35% of the players in my shard.
Just before the second EU merge they were 15%.

That is something that is not just hot air made player flee Horizons in droves but dragon players left twice as that. For a game that boasts dragons in every angle... it is very indicative.

As of now there are more or less 20 dragons in all Unity on at a time (visible ones but I know them personally and they normally stay visible) that can buy high level stuff from the only one I know that busted his ar.se so much that now has severalof the basic techs. Me. And they do so well that they must order me 1-4 scales at a time even at reduced byless than half pricedue to no money (and lairscould require huge gold) and complete inability to farm the reagents (and I won't start talking of the pitiful spawns - 4 icy wolves - all grouped of course) in two hours staying in the area to make them spawn).

To recap in the end, to all those that just after a year still don't (want to?) understand simple concepts:

It's not being subpar or having to grind everything even more than the others or even it's not being still not finished and full of bugs.

It's knowing that:

A) You are lesser. In all the aspects but passively ferrying. By design and determined thru months will. With nothing you can EVER do to recover from it. But that is not
told on the box.

B) The world changes. Mobs improve. Minerals are harder to treat. All the others the want to adapt, adapt. You instead cannot change or adapt.

C) Months pass. Time for your 100th level comes. Then time for your 200th. And 300th. And 400th. But you are topped at 100 period.
Your class has "holes" in abilities or spells? The new mobs require a change? You must stay the same. Capped and prisoner of your limits.

On stats while at present it may not be true once all the quests are in dragons will have 9/level for all skills.

As of now, after just a year, my dragon's reach ability is still topped at level 40. Not to talk about the others. Expecially the craft ones (we suck in most stats? Well, let's not have even the quests we should have to raise them). It took a year to get an essence shaping trainer. In 2007 we should get stoneworking.
Basically: like you (bipeds - am sure dragons won't get anything like that) got weeks with enlarged vaults to cope with the lack of a plot. We instead is a year that we are in a disadvantage due to lack of vital quests but we got nothing to cope with them.

Multiclassing does allow bipeds to become much stronger but when choosing to be a dragon you knew you would not have that option.

I am one of the fortunate owners of the boxed version of the game. Nowhere on it I can find even an hint on dragons being limited by design to one class. Or overall worth. I did not know but I paid good money the same.

Do I think a dragon should be as strong as someone who has 2 or 3 schools Perhaps as an ancient when they have gone through the same amount of effort as it takes a biped.

I don't instead. I don't want to be good as a biped with 2 or 3 schools.
We "survivors" of ancient time don't want anything on silver platters (unlike several newcomers and biped dragon alts). And we don't even want any discount on the effort that we'd take if we were bipeds like 99% of the biped posts imply.

We would just have a class that had bearable bugs. A resemblance of having at least the basic stuff done.

And most of all that, no matter the effort, no matter the time, no matter anything, in the end the overall effectivity and fun and sense of reward were similar to bipeds.

Just that. We don't get multiclassing? Who the heck cares! Plan arace with just one class that doing something it's not our job to invent becomes extremely powerful in the very same time and effort that would take a biped to become like that.

After all, we dragons, are just begging toconsider the gameworth playingas longas the others do and so pay a long time like the others,not to eat children.

Maybe eat gnomes...

[Seranthor]

I have to agree with Vahrokh on many things here,


I still would like to see specific reasonable suggestions on how to correct this 'imbalance'... saying that a single class 100 dragon should be as capable as a 2x100 biped is not a reasonable suggestion...

make specific suggestions like raise T&C for one dragon faction to 9/level and primal to 9/level for the other... now THATS a reasonable suggestion for improvement... or maybe rework dragon scales to give better armor/hp/etc... that would be reasonable...

IF you want AE to listen AND you want the support of the community for your crusade give reasonable thought out suggestions instead of whining and moaning... :)


as far as your contention that dragon population is dropping I'd offer this... currently at this time there are 16 level 100 dragons online on Chaos, there are 19 level 100 bipeds of all classes combined.

[IndyMan]

I am still irked that in the last few days before release they changed it so that my dragon MAGE was no more and suddenly I could not choose a class to play as a dragon, but i digress ... my apologies ... [:#]

[Vahrokh]

Seranthor it's not my job to balance classes. Nor I decided the current setup.

At the moment, kicking away the theory and seeing the actual people in game you get in one side basically one amorphous blob of classes that is the current biped. I.e. guardian / shaman, cleric / spiritist usually with some 20 or 40 levels to take the "good" of other classes. The end result is something powerful and versatile.

On the other side you get a dragon, who ... is exactly like a dragon 100 of 10 months ago. A dinosaur, unable to cope with the change.


Anyway

I don't even want to be at level 100 like a 2 x level 100 biped.

At level 100 I am like a paladin 100 but with less melee damage and more spells.

Then the 100 paladin decides i.e. to multiclass and to become 100/100/100 to i.e. raise his healing or getting spells.

In my vision me (Vahrokh) would decide to i.e. "extend my already present abilities" so I do better what I do now worse.

I.e. I suck in melee? I take 30 "ability levels" (that correspond to 30 second class levels), get increased rating for the 130 total levels and I am HAPPY because I could improve what a Lunus cares of: melee.
I won't even care to have life easy (a second class is far easier and faster to raise than getting the first 100, expecially now with those cheesy trophys) because I'll have the reward I wanted for my 30 levels of effort. Say i.e. +5 damage a hit.

Then I decide to hone up a bit my healing and start another "ability levels" section (quest? Or just getting the experience for 30 levels? It's the same -> I look only at the results) to improve my healing spells or area spells.
You get the picture.

I.e. I am not multiclassing yet I am sweating my 30 (50, 100 who cares, the important is that I can level something) honest levels, getting my rating increased but in the end I become what I want and I even get fun and satisfaction in it.

Is this so... too much?

[Jaraiden]

(Maltavorn)

HOWEVER, the *point* is that he *farms* forms in a group with bipeds. Solo, he doesn't get anywhere near the quantity of forms that he does in a group with bipeds. No Draogn does. You see Devilin out hunting for forms? No. He is on his bug, Vendilin, farming the hell out of the WA mobs in the deadlands satyr isles. Why? because he CAN, and can do it FAR better than Devilin could EVER hope to do. Yeah, yeah, insert standard rebuttal of "play an uber biped instead" here. Why should I HAVE to? Why can I not expect to see some equity come from the character (which is SUPPOSED to be a powerhouse) I chose to play? The one I have been working hard on for a year now, and expect to continue?

But hey he has one adventure school the adventures that can farm lots of forms have 2 or 3 adventure schools. You expect as a SINGLE school dragon to perform as well as someone with 2 or 3 schools? Then you are dreaming.Yes, actually, I do. It is a horrendous imbalance in the game system that needs to be corrected. Since multiclassing is grandfathered, the developers really have no choice but to buff Dragons, as nerfing bipeds and their (rather absurd) ability to multiclass just won't happen (nor do I expect it at this point; maybe if it were still in beta, but it is far too late at this juncture).

As long as AE completes the dragon race, per their lore AND limit biped multiclassing at the epic 101 to 120 (or higher) levels then it will be a giant step in equality.