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Thread: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

  1. #161

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Some thoughts on the KnoC since I started playing with it. I'm just about level 30 and I want to point a few things out about my experiences so far.

    The passive threat modifier is nice for group play, I'm finding though that anyone who does decent damage (I've got a friend who plays crossbowman [shocking, I know] and his DPS is much better than everyone in the group) or heals grabs aggro from me quickly. Battle Shout, Brandish and War Cry all work well to grab attention initially and take attention back briefly, but holding aggro is still difficult.

    I have only used the 1 handed sword and the shield, and I can say I'm not disappointed. The shield feels pretty good and I'm very impressed with the shield slam mechanic. I do think the shield slam could use a reduction in the CD, 30 seconds isn't terrible but bringing it on par with power strike would make it a lot better, especially considering the amount of blocking a KnoC is doing.

    The sword is nice, but I feel that I'm already starting to fall behind damage wise at 30th level. Having to wait until 40th level to finally get an upgrade in damage is tough, but not that bad I guess. Bringing the damage of the sword up even a few points would go miles to helping make the sword better. Especially considering that other crafted weapons can have techniques applied, it's tough to keep up with the same weapon for 20 levels.

    As for the specific skills for the blade, blinding strike could use a little love. I see no reason for it not to be a 100% blind chance, especially considering it's debuff isn't that harsh.

    Mighty blow could use a little love, the stun is either broken or ridiculously short (less than 2 seconds).

    The Blessing of Istara is great, I can't complain about it. I would like to see more Istara centered abilities, the Withered Aegis Knights of Destruction have a number of interesting abilities that KnoCs have no answer for. It'd be cool to have at least one strike skill that the KnoC could use which does something.

    In conclusion, the new KnoC is very good, a few tweaks could make it great.
    - They should have some way to hold aggro, any healers or damage dealers almost always grab aggro right back.
    - Shield Slam could use a CD decrease. I'd like to see at least 15 seconds, but no CD would be great too :)
    - The summoned sword should have a damage increase, just a bit to keep it competitive over 20 levels.
    - Blinding Strike should be a 100% blind, I see no reason why it isn't.
    - Mighty Blow should be looked at. The stun seems broken and it doesn't do that much extra damage.
    - Another Istara themed ability. Perhaps a HoT like Istara's Breath (the buff sold by Pawnbrokers).

  2. #162

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Thanks for the feedback!

    - I'll definitely reduce Shield Slam, that's a good idea (made it 20s)
    - Same with Blinding Strike, its not unbalancing to have the debuff apply 100% of the time
    - Mighty Blow was giving a Short Stun which is 3s. I have raised it to a Moderate Stun (5s). However, a couple notes. 1) It only has a 40% chance of stunning. 2) If the target is already stunned OR has temporary stun immunity then it won't stun the target again until either wears off. Also, please note that its damage is using 1hs so if you are using any other weapon it will do far less damage (it currently has a 35% damage boost).
    - Threat I'm not sure about. KnoC's get a passive, Protective, at level 1, a non-masterable, that boosts their threat generation by 450%. So, possible that other schools you were fighting with were also boosting their threat through other abilities, such as stances and that was causing an issue?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  3. #163

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Some more feedback, now that I'm back and playing KnoC again.

    The first is possibly a bug, but I'm not certain. Battle Shout and War Cry (both the aggro clickies) have a hard time generating aggro sometimes. Battle Shout is usually a solid guarantee to pull aggro, but I've noticed it sometimes doesn't seem to work (for example, Wisps seem to ignore battle shout).

    War Cry is far more finicky. I've noticed that in battle it almost never actually pulls aggro off of anyone, but it is good for aggroing enemies who have not been engaged by anyone yet. For example, I and three others are fighting some winter wolves, my friend the crossbowman is having trouble with his wolf. I pop Battle Shout to draw the wolf's attention and it works 90% of the time. Now, in the same scenario, all of my friends are struggling and I pop War Cry to try and drag them all off of my friends and onto me. 100% of the time nothing happens and only fresh mobs will be drawn who were not already engaged. I feel like this may not be intentional and if it is, I would suggest making the aggro a bit more powerful.

    I also never really touched on Absorption Shield before, and I have to say that I really like the ability but have one critique; its uptime is dismally short. The ability works well, for the insanely fast ten seconds it's up, but the relatively longish CD and short uptime make the ability a panic button and not a tactical one.

    I would suggest making the uptime a bit longer or doing away with the uptime all together and just make it go away when all the damage is absorbed. It's not an overly large pool of damage absorption and it would go a long way to making the ability more user-friendly. I can't tell you how many times I have popped it thinking that the enemy may be using an ability that I wanted to block only to have them use it right after the ten seconds is up. It's really rough and more punishing for the user if it's used prematurely. That makes it only good for an "Oh Sh#t" button to try and run away or get emergency healing, and even then the efficacy is spotty with the ten-second duration.

    In summation, both the aggro drawing abilities may need to be looked at to see if they are functioning correctly (mainly War Cry). I would STRONGLY suggest that the uptime of Absorption Shield be increased (at least tripled) or taken away altogether (just make it go away when all the damage is absorbed and then start the CD).

    I would like to state again how much I love the changes to the class and how much better it feels to play it since. Thanks for all your hard work!


  4. #164

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    By War Cry do you mean Battle Roar? Battle Shout is a single target and applies a decent amount of "threat". Battle Roar is self AoE and should generate 5x as much. We'll give it a test, see if we can get it working.

    Thanks for the feedback on Absorption Shield. We're discussing it.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #165

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Sorry, I always seem to get the names mixed up. Battle Roar is what I meant. The AoE one, it works fine grabbing fresh aggro but it doesn't grab aggro from anything already engaged in combat. Battle Shout works very effectively over 90% of the time, there are just a few odd instances where some creatures ignore it (Whisps seem to the most).

    I appreciate you guys taking another look at absorption shield, it's a great ability in theory but it's very VERY difficult to use effectively.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Checking back in with some more testimonial from the front lines, Battle Roar is definitely wonky and I can confirm it ONLY grabs fresh aggro (I.E. things which have not been attacked) but it continues to fail grabbing any aggro from things which are already fighting. I rescind my earlier statements about Battle Shout, it's working amazingly for me now and I have absolutely no issues with it. I can only assume my earlier issues were isolated incidents.

    I've continued working with Absorption Shield and still am not having any luck getting it to function as anything other than an "Oh Sh#t" button. It's great for helping you survive just long enough to hit sprint and possibly get away from whatever you're fighting, but in battle it's efficacy is questionable unless you're just randomly popping it to absorb damage. It's short uptime coupled with the fact that most creatures/enemies have no telegraphed attacks makes it a very difficult ability to use tactically.

    For example, I was recently fighting some Aegis Necromancers and really getting some hurt laid on me by their Blight Blast spells. So I attempted to use Absorption Shield to tank their damage, which I tried to do by guessing the CD on Blight Blast and timing my Absorption Shield accordingly. Unfortunately, around five of the six times I tried it, I was unable to use Absorption Shield to do so because more often than not I was off with my estimates. In my opinion, as I said before, it shouldn't come down to dumb luck or randomly clicking the ability to get the most use out of it.

    I hope that helps at all, the class is otherwise pristine!

  7. #167

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    I just became a Knight of Creation myself and I very much agree that the absorption shield falls miles short of what it seems like it was intended to do. It's short duration (10 seconds I believe) is barely enough time to block a single attack, unless the target has a very fast attack cycle, in which case perhaps two attacks can be blocked if the activation was timed perfectly. And the short duration also means that the player who uses the skill needs to know exactly when to activate it in order to block special attacks. The problem then becomes that there is no way of knowing when a creature is going to use a high damage attack, there are no telegraphed abilities that can be easily identified from more mundane attack animations.

    Could the skill remain active until the damage pool is depleted? That is still pretty quick in high intensity combat, especially if the knight has grabbed aggro from multiple opponents, as the class has been designed to do. When you've got three enemies all beating on your character, 500 damage will go fast.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    I'm back once again, and once again looking to discuss the Absorption Shield ability line.

    As I've said before, many times, the ability is so ridiculously dependent on guesswork and dumb luck that it's rendered virtually useless. At it's heart, absorption shield looks like it's supposed to be a powerful defensive ability that the KNoC can use in order to better tank for their team. However, the reality of the situation is that an incredibly short uptime and a long cooldown make absorption shield an ability that is best used to guard against large, damaging attacks. The problem with this, is that there are virtually no "tells" or animations which would clue a player into knowing when to use the ability in order to get the most bang for their buck. I have often (as I said before) only used Absorption Shield as a panic button, to try and get away from something or as a last ditch effort to survive long enough for my team to get away or heal me. The two minute cool down makes it incredibly difficult to justify using casually in a fight, and the ten second uptime makes it even more difficult to use it at all. Ten seconds equates to only two or three attacks at most if fighting one on one.

    I was playing around with the new Cleric ability "Istara's Shield" and I fell in love with it. It is PRECISELY what I believe Absorption Shield should be. A Quick CD, infinite uptime until the damage "pool" is depleted and a block bonus? Somebody get me a ring. This ability is PERFECT for the KNoC, a class which is (according to the lore) Istara's Chosen warriors, so it would make sense that they could have access to this ability, or something like it.

    PLEASE consider doing something, anything, to Absorption Shield in order to bring it on par with Istara's Shield. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Absorption Shield right now is virtually useless. I almost never use it and I exclusively run KNoC and actively adventure with a group of four.

  9. #169

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Perhaps leave Absorption Shield as is and simply add Istara's Shield as an ability the summoned Shield gets? Currently the Shield gets Defensive Wall, Brandish and Advanced Blocking; but I think Brandish could easily be replaced as it's main function is to grab aggro and that is done quite effectively by Battle Shout. Defensive Wall is still nice, actually a much better tanky option than Absorption Shield, even if it is only against one target. (From Discord)

  10. #170

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Absorption Shield has been given some improvements for the next content update
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  11. #171

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Absorption Shield has been given some improvements for the next content update
    You're such a tease Amon, any chance you could drop a hint about the changes? :)

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