RE: Spider & Goliath Beetle Pets - possible swap option for Dragons

[Lio]

hey there Amon and all,

Having just recently returned for more fun and giggles, the world looks really amazing with all the updates I can see ..my heartfelt congratulations on, I am sure, many many long hours of dedicated and painstaking developing.

Reason for this post...so embarrassing, I got the Spider Pet for Lio... after the first few, omg's and various squeals of delight at the increased inventory facility, I thought I'd use some oh-so-valuable tokens on my Dragon's account, and get him a Spider Pet too, a great idea of preparation for future Dragon Crafting excitement etc...

It never occurred to me until the other day when a guildy was squealing also in her delight at flying with her Goliath Beetle Pet, that it gradually dawned on me I had made the most awful mistake in rushing to get what I wrongly thought might be a limited time offer land-locked pet etc..little realising of course that this only applied to the winter pet wolf only, not the loyalty pets.

I rushed to log on my Dragon to affirm if I had made the wrong choice, and I had, I rushed to Bristugo to see if I could trade and swap, alas, no joy..

Finally, my question obviously is this...Is it in any way possible for it to be changed so that Dragons may be able to swap the spider for the beetle ? ..as I have made the mistake in my excitement, its possible others may also have already, and maybe in the future..I cannot remember seeing any mention of the flying aspect in the notes, I'm totally sure it is my mistake, but might there be any assistance possible on this ..

Thanks in advance for any possible thoughts and / or actions.

[Velea]

I'm sorry, but vendors can be set up to only accept one type of "currency", and in this case that currency is Loyalty Tokens.

You may want to travel to New Brommel and try the Spring Festival and obtain an Eostre Beetle, which also is a "flying pet" until you earn more Loyalty Tokens.

[Lio]

While I do appreciate the thrust of your answer Velea, I really believe my question is also concerned with not wasting hard earned tokens following an unavoidably 'bad' choice of pet when the Goliath Beetle was not available.

Following the specific choice for Dragons now to be able to fly with this wonderful GB pet, and not be stuck on the ground, might it not be possible to make it that we could at least swap our spiders to another toon on same account, or even another account we own, as in fact we can do with the tokens in the first place.

I would be grateful, on behalf I'm certain of many players, if consideration could be given to this when possible, as I know a few players at least made the same choice I did for their Dragons, and we would collectively be very grateful for the opportuntiy to make use of our tokens efficiently with other toons, rather than chewing our lips in despair every time we see a wasted pet.

When I see an Ancient Dragon with a Spider, there really isn't something quite right about it ... /grin ..hoping some player satisfaction can be collectively achieved here, thanks in advance for any efforts in this regard.

[Machaeon]

Velea, a suggestion if I might: make the loyalty vendor carry loyalty tokens and have the things you buy sellable for the loyalty tokens she carries so you can sell back something you don't want and receive your tokens back to use for something you do want. This would make everyone who has bought both the pets happy if they only want the beetle.

Just my two copper

[Knossos]

Or perhaps change to Spider to be "flyable"? It seems possible that flyable pets were an afterthought (at player expense - in the case of spider purchases by Dragon toons)....

Knossos

[Cegaiel]

The solution of exchanging them (as Machaeon suggested) might be a bit more work coding, but I think that is a great idea. But at minimum, I agree with Knossos as a quick fix in the mean time.

If someone makes the mistake of spending 8 tokens (that's 8 months of subscription, which is a significant investment from a player) then another 8 months wait to buy the flyable version, while wasting 8 tokens buying the spider (if you're a dragon, and I did the same thing. Lucky I had enough tokens to buy a beetle, my spider is just a waste sitting in vault to never be used again). So, I blew 8 months of tokens, not too happy about that, but since I had enough to replace them, it wasn't so aggravating, like I suspect it is on a newer player who invested 3/4 of a year to earn.

The difference of a spider and beetle isn't a big deal (space and bulk the same), but if a dragon makes a mistake and doesn't read the fine print (which none exists), then its a huge mistake when they buy the spider and realize later that they can fly with the pet, had they known to buy the beetle in first place. I think you want to work a solution in this matter and not say you sol.

I totally get the animation and logic of a beetle flying and a spider not and appreciate it, its a very cool thing, I love it. But wasting 8 tokens on a mistake without any kind of warning is hard to swallow for 3/4 of a year subscription.

[Guaran]

Spiders shouldn't be flying, following around a dragon...

Now, maybe if it had some spiderweb cable flexibly attaching it, maybe it would make sense... (would look stupid)

It will not be long for regular subscribers to be able to buy the beetle if they haven't already. There was a free one for the spring event on new brommell for solving a riddle (still ongoing I believe).

Honestly this just sounds like too much (dev) work to really be worth it.

And what are you going to do when 6 months from now some newer pet comes along and then you will be like "omg I don't want a beetle anymore, I want THAT one!". "Hey, can I exchange this pet I bought awhile back, I got buyers remorse and, and, it's not fair, and I really want this other one." When would it ever end?

[Cegaiel]

Those are good points and for the most part I agree. It just kind of sucks that we didn't know the mechanics about how the pets would work, since they were a brand new and unknown thing. If I had known that once I equipped the pet (spider) that I lose my ability to fly, I would've refrained from that purchase. We couldn't forsee (and yes, I did re-read the patch notes and it clearly doesn't state that your dragon will not be able to fly with it equipped) that the lovely 5k bulk would also clip our wings. Perhaps a compromise? Maybe reduce the price to 6 tokens from 8. I think 6 months of loyalty is still fair for the reward.

No, I don't think when new pets come around in future and someone says, "oh I want that one, can I trade it? "is not a valid excuse to trade it. But grounding a dragon with a pet equipped was something that we should've made aware and why I feel its a valid argument. On top of that, when the beetles came out, it was a very long time before I was aware that they did fly. Only by casual conversation did I figure that out. Someone said this beetle is cool, it flies. I thought they meant flaps its wing when they said it flies and still ignored it. Was some other random conversation down the road when I realized they literally could fly, meaning a dragon is no longer grounded with the pet equipped.

Any way to get the loyalty trainer to relay that info? Eventually old players are going to return with some loyalty tokens in their pocket. If they don't read the forums first, history will likely repeat itself (a dragon buying the coolest looking pet, likely the spider and later be irritated they wasted their tokens after they learn they won't be able to fly). Maybe a 2nd dialogue when a dragon trades for any pet other than the beetle, saying are you sure, you can't fly anymore while its equipped).

And sorry devs, I'm not "ragging" on you. I know you couldn't have forseen this conversation when you put the effort into making pets. We appreciate you and the effort it took to pull this off in the first place. So I'll end this with Thanks devs!

[Tzael]

Having read everyone's thoughts on this I think the simplest option would be to add "Prevents flight" to the description on the spider.

At first I thought the idea of buy-back for tokens sounded like a good way to fix this but after reading Guaran's comments about buyer's remorse I have to agree that buy-back isn't the best way to address this.

[Knossos]

Perhaps if the pet had a "detach" option (similar to that of the cargo disk for parking) then a dragon could achieve some utility from a non-flyable pet. The pet could, for example, be parked near a portal and then be (with a bit of back and forth flight) of some use to a dragon. This would also afford some additional flexibility in the use of travel scrolls for dragons to move material with a non-flyable pet.

Knossos

[Cegaiel]

The idea of adding something about flight to desc sounds good. Now I'm scratching my head. I just looked at the spider to see exactly what it says. It does say "Limits Fly Height to 0" now. I could've swore it didn't say that when I bought it, but been so long I can say. So unless that piece of info has been added sometime recently, then I guess half of my argument is invalid now... But on other hand, when I look at the Beetle it makes no mention of flight at all. I suppose that's how the cargo disks are labeled too. The flying ones likely don't mention flight, but when flight is limited (regular disks), it does mentions that flight is somehow restricted. So I retract some of my argument now that I see it does say limits flight, but on other hand, I still don't think it said that when they first came out, but can't swear to it. But the pets are an expensive investment, any additional info to the desc could help with mistakes. Even to the beetles, adding a line that says "Allows Flight" and Prevents Flight (an additional line below where it says "Limits Height to 0" to spiders, etc could be a simple solution.

[Nia]

Just generally, I am of the opinion that all of the loyalty pets/disks should have the same abilities. That awesome Golden Grouper disk is so cool looking, so wonderfully modelled and skinned but for building (which, along with planning, is about all I do) Spidey wins hands down every time. Goliath beetle is fairly drab looking - maybe coming in some beetle-like jewel or iri tones would be cool as well.

Just sayin' -

Nia :: Blight Shard :: Chronicles of the Twisted Guild
*does the Gnomian Happy Dance in anticipation of the Vault Loyalty Upgrade*

[Lio]

The difference of a spider and beetle isn't a big deal (space and bulk the same), but if a dragon makes a mistake and doesn't read the fine print (which none exists), then its a huge mistake when they buy the spider and realize later that they can fly with the pet, had they known to buy the beetle in first place . I think you want to work a solution in this matter and not say you sol.

I totally get the animation and logic of a beetle flying and a spider not and appreciate it, its a very cool thing, I love it. But wasting 8 tokens on a mistake without any kind of warning is hard to swallow for 3/4 of a year subscription.

I so agree Cegaiel .. and even though you reduced the cost to 4 toks, which of course is great, and now added far better descriptions for flying/not flying etc .. is there still really any reason not to allow a Dragon to swap a spider to a bi-ped toon on another, or same, account ?

.. BUMPAGE

[Lio]

restrained frustration bumpage with hope for better things to come ../grin

.. and Cega you are most certainly right .. when the spider pets first came out, there was NO mention of any flight limitation, although of course it makes sense .. and the beetles weren't available at the time .. AND the winter wolf quest was a 'limited time' frame quest which psychologically gave the impression that the spider was too, even though it was on the 'loyalty' vendor for tokens .. all those things together did make a lot of us decide to get the spider for our dragons before it was taken out of the game ..with 20/20 hindsight we can now see of course that our decisions were hasty, but i cannot believe it is un-rectifiable at some point ..

still living in hope ..

PS : I see also that you have returned the cost back to 8 tokens .. I can't help thinking 'false economy' here .. the same principle applies with tax, half the cost, triple [or more] the take .. its a good business principle to remember...simply put, make the game easier to play, cheaper in game 'items of perceived necessity' .. more people will stay and play after going free to try .. more cash flows .. OR make it too tough, and there's a greater chance you'll lose the people that find their way here anyway .. just a humble thought from an retired business guy who knows one or two basics.

Of course I have no wish to seem overly insistent, I'm certain you all know these principles perfectly well, I just wish to see this game get the recognition and player base it deserves.