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Thread: Talk to the Team: Techniques

  1. #1

    Default Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits? And if so, should the formulas drop as loot instead and require tech components? What school(s) should be able to make the techs? Should it be tied to the type of tech or to a specific school? For example, weapon techs for WEaponcrafter, spell techs for Spellcrafter, etc or should it be Enchanter or something similar?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  2. #2

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    As a personal feeling I would say no to this, but maybe I'm too used how it's now. If this will be added I'd suggest, give this to dragons, bipeds are able to craft such lot of things. Why not adding another special to the dragons, could add this to the crystalshaper school. The crystal is the container with the magic powress that could be released onto items. For crafting the tech components (same as now), essence and azulyte crystals could be components. If it should be both, then spellcrafting ability (Dragon Crafter and Spellcrafter for bipeds) seems to be a good choice.
    Terao (Gnome, Grand Master Crafter, Order [Unity])|Draigourn (Ancient, Master Lairshaper, Lunus, Order)|Echentrial (Ancient, Lunus, Order)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits? And if so, should the formulas drop as loot instead and require tech components? What school(s) should be able to make the techs? Should it be tied to the type of tech or to a specific school? For example, weapon techs for WEaponcrafter, spell techs for Spellcrafter, etc or should it be Enchanter or something similar?
    I would allow both methods;
    • Normal crafting and add techniques at time of creation
    • Creation of tech kit via a lootable formula


    Trade off would be that the technique kits would require more of a tech comp + something else to make the kit (would also make them in the upper skill set of each tier)

    Therefore can satisfy current method of crafting and also add in new technique kits over time (don't have to add every kit combination straight away).


    I would link them to the most relevant skill? so might be some crossovers with schools (IE smelting). If there isn't a relevant skill then closest match school [as suggested above]
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  4. #4

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    The one drawback to this change would be that Techniques would be draggable when looted. Meaning, looted techs would have to remain as-is and not be tech kits unless they no longer dropped as techs and instead dropped as tech-kit-formulas.

    I do wish to clarify that I am not set on making this change nor have I done much research into it. I simply posed the question for brainstorming.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #5

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits?
    It is an inventive idea Amon, but there are a few issues that need to be ironed out or addressed. Some of which I don't think can be, and unless they are I'll have to disagree and say no.

    Following reasons at present that I can't support all techs being tech-kits:

    -It would defeat the purpose of players working crafting schools and mastering them. What would be the point of getting 100 in armourcraft for example? You wouldn't need 100. At about 85 a player could make everything earlier and tech it with everything they wanted by using tech-kits. It takes away from the difficulty in adding a tech on during the crafting process, thus removing any need to master any craft to 100.

    -By having the tech-kits available for sale on connies and vendors it would further damage or destroy community interaction, which is something that defines a game as an mmo. I understand not every player is a fan of crafting, and that is alright. However all the player needs to do is interact with others and ask around in chat to get that item made for them with the techs they want. This is an mmo afterall, not a single player game. In every mmo that I have played, if you don't want to put forth the risk/time investment for the reward then you must interact with others for it. (in most cases both.)

    -Tech kits would cause further issues with item-stack.

    -Tech kits for all scribed techs in game would make it too easy for players and defeat the idea of time/effort/risk vs. reward. As we know from previous discussions on the forums, a lack of risk/time investment vs. reward is not a good way to retain players.

    -At present, yes you can buy the tech forms off the vendors and connie, but in that case you are still working your crafting to make the item yourself and having to pay the silver or gold you earned for it, so it fits the idea of risk/time investement vs reward.

    I don't mind tech kits if they are not craftable and are special rewards that are only gained through a quest or earned by the daily quests as we have them now (i.e volcano, mental bane, etc.) You can't craft those. They fit the risk/time investment vs reward model.


    You see an Ice Wall Corner, I see a Tardis.
    "

    "Pen Pineapple Apple Pen"


  6. #6

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Arzel Rashemi View Post
    It is an inventive idea Amon, but there are a few issues that need to be ironed out or addressed. Some of which I don't think can be, and unless they are I'll have to disagree and say no.

    Following reasons at present that I can't support all techs being tech-kits:

    -It would defeat the purpose of players working crafting schools and mastering them. What would be the point of getting 100 in armourcraft for example? You wouldn't need 100. At about 85 a player could make everything earlier and tech it with everything they wanted by using tech-kits. It takes away from the difficulty in adding a tech on during the crafting process, thus removing any need to master any craft to 100.

    -By having the tech-kits available for sale on connies and vendors it would further damage or destroy community interaction, which is something that defines a game as an mmo. I understand not every player is a fan of crafting, and that is alright. However all the player needs to do is interact with others and ask around in chat to get that item made for them with the techs they want. This is an mmo afterall, not a single player game. In every mmo that I have played, if you don't want to put forth the risk/time investment for the reward then you must interact with others for it. (in most cases both.)

    -Tech kits would cause further issues with item-stack.

    I don't mind tech kits if they are not craftable and are special rewards that are only gained through a quest or earned by the daily quests as we have them now (i.e volcano, mental bane, etc.) You can't craft those. They fit the risk/time investment vs reward model.
    Pretty much agree with all of this.

    Not only the stacks used issues (more stuff needing more storage space), but the formula/knowledge book limits as well. My GMC has had to delete some beginner blighted gear formulas, since I am at the formula limit (whatever it is). The occasional tech kit that is craftable is one thing. But I wouldn't want a deluge of them.

    It seems to represent too much convenience as Arzel mentioned. No interaction, just ready-to-apply techs for everything, plus blank scales/armor/spells all listed on the connies..

    And I would want to retain the ability to apply techs at creation as well. Just sounds like way too much work without much real return on investment for the players. I'd much rather amon (or whoever would be doing the work) worked on say some new epic quests for new epic spells like Banshee, Fury of the Power Demon, etc. New story/lore.

    Other side issue that would arise is techs that should or should not stack, getting overwritten, issues along those lines.

    I must vote: no thanks.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    I thought a bit more about this, and there might be a way to allieviate some of the above concerns.

    I think most of us' first impressions, were that we would have to find 200+ some odd new formulas, one for each technique kit. This is a no-go for me. Formula book already can be a bit slow to load on the GMC. Even if the knowledge book limit was increased by however many forms.

    The other concern I had but didn't mention already, was that before, you needed to find or buy say "Tooth&claw V" to be able to tech that onto anything. Now we would just need the correct form?

    Instead of all separate forms, how about a single new formula simply called "Tech Kit"

    This would bring up the item creation window. It would have 1 available tech slot. All techs scribed by the player, would be applicaable to the generic tech-kit item. Let's say I wanted to make a tech kit for Tooth & Claw V. I have that tech in my knowledge book, I could bring up the tech kit formula, scroll through all of the techs listed and select Tooth&Claw V, apply it to the kit. The kit has some resources of its own, maybe a few Mithril bars or something, the tech itself would require the comps needed plus 4 shining orbs. I craft the item, and it makes a tech kit which is a drag-to-apply version of tooth&claw V. To be able to create this tech kit, the player has to already know the tech they want to make a kit for. Could work for all statistic, adventure, defense, spell, craft techs, etc. If needed, I suppose it could be broken out into 5 or so formulas/categories, for each of the above. So it would be "Spell tech kit: Accuracy V", or "Craft tech kit: Mining V" for example.

    If the above is possible, I might be swayed to think this could be implemented with minimized impact and dev work. If the above is not possible, I will say let's just skip it. (I am not sure the item can be made to pass the tech on or not, or that it will be able to check keyword conflicts, or will be able to not apply to a piece of gear that it should not apply to, like 2 hand slash on earrings, etc.)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Tech Kits could work in same fashion dyes do.

    Require extra comps to make. You are spending more for the convenience.

    Don't really see the disadvantage of this for those who leveled to 100. Crafting is ridiculously easy and requires 0 trophies.
    rip

  9. #9

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post

    The other concern I had but didn't mention already, was that before, you needed to find or buy say "Tooth&claw V" to be able to tech that onto anything. Now we would just need the correct form?

    Instead of all separate forms, how about a single new formula simply called "Tech Kit"

    This would bring up the item creation window. It would have 1 available tech slot. All techs scribed by the player, would be applicaable to the generic tech-kit item. Let's say I wanted to make a tech kit for Tooth & Claw V. I have that tech in my knowledge book, I could bring up the tech kit formula, scroll through all of the techs listed and select Tooth&Claw V, apply it to the kit. The kit has some resources of its own, maybe a few Mithril bars or something, the tech itself would require the comps needed plus 4 shining orbs. I craft the item, and it makes a tech kit which is a drag-to-apply version of tooth&claw V. To be able to create this tech kit, the player has to already know the tech they want to make a kit for. Could work for all statistic, adventure, defense, spell, craft techs, etc. If needed, I suppose it could be broken out into 5 or so formulas/categories, for each of the above. So it would be "Spell tech kit: Accuracy V", or "Craft tech kit: Mining V" for example.

    If the above is possible, I might be swayed to think this could be implemented with minimized impact and dev work. If the above is not possible, I will say let's just skip it. (I am not sure the item can be made to pass the tech on or not, or that it will be able to check keyword conflicts, or will be able to not apply to a piece of gear that it should not apply to, like 2 hand slash on earrings, etc.)
    I agree to all of this however I have one further concern. Won't making all techs into kits pretty much render the requirement to reach 100 in any given craft redundant (mainly thinking about armourer and weaponsmith possibly fletcher). the way items are currently crafted without teching them you could make everything you want as a blacksmith or outfitter. because as you apply techs to armour the skill required increases if your using tech kits would this still be the case? If not then the skill required for all armour will have to be amended to make it that extra bit more difficult.

    Also Personally i feel that perhaps the enchanter school is lack luster. Would it be possible to perhaps create a few special kits that add temp bonuses to weapons.. perhaps increasing damage to certain foes.. or something else not covered by alch or scrolls?

    And finally would it also be possible to make a tech scrub kit.. removes all techs from armour. I was thinking this might be useful if we want to respec or ceremonial shields/chest scales?
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  10. #10

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Calyndrell View Post
    ...Won't making all techs into kits pretty much render the requirement to reach 100 in any given craft redundant (mainly thinking about armourer and weaponsmith possibly fletcher). the way items are currently crafted without teching them you could make everything you want as a blacksmith or outfitter. because as you apply techs to armour the skill required increases if your using tech kits would this still be the case? If not then the skill required for all armour will have to be amended to make it that extra bit more difficult.
    True. And crafting is relatively easy already, as Dracillion mentioned. These kits would just make it all even easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calyndrell View Post
    And finally would it also be possible to make a tech scrub kit.. removes all techs from armour. I was thinking this might be useful if we want to respec or ceremonial shields/chest scales?
    Could be handy if someone wants to remove sockets. But I would hate to accidentally erase a blackhammer clan tech this way :)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Won't making all techs into kits pretty much render the requirement to reach 100 in any given craft redundant (mainly thinking about armourer and weaponsmith possibly fletcher). the way items are currently crafted without teching them you could make everything you want as a blacksmith or outfitter.


    If you go with the assumption that you could make any tech as a blacksmith or outfitter and that higher tier techs wouldn't require you to be high level in your school then I guess I can see the logic in this argument.

    nd finally would it also be possible to make a tech scrub kit.. removes all techs from armour. I was thinking this might be useful if we want to respec or ceremonial shields/chest scales?


    With current tech this is not possible.

    So far the best argument against I have seen is the one about accumulation of formulas. That would indeed be a problem and is a good reason not to do this.

    It seems to represent too much convenience as Arzel mentioned. No interaction, just ready-to-apply techs for everything, plus blank scales/armor/spells all listed on the connies..


    It could be argued either way actually. It could reduce as you suggest or it could increase as players would be able to buy specific tech kits from players. Or you might also be able to stock consigners with tech kits and actually see a small economy again.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  12. #12

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    Could be handy if someone wants to remove sockets. But I would hate to accidentally erase a blackhammer clan tech this way :)
    while this seems like a really nice idea, I'm not sure what the dev-outlook on this might be, seeing as you'd need to get a way to select which tech should be removed.

    But aside from that, I do support the idea!

    edit:woops, didn't see amon's post.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    [/COLOR]
    If you go with the assumption that you could make any tech as a blacksmith or outfitter and that higher tier techs wouldn't require you to be high level in your school then I guess I can see the logic in this argument.
    Yes And I feel that this assumption will HAVE to be the case for the majority of techs let me explain. I'll use Armour V tech. This is applied to armour as we all know. However Armour can be made by Armoursmiths (Metal armour), Tailors (Cloth and leather) and Outfitters. so It will have to be craftable by all three crafts. Same goes for stats. all resists etc etc

    Weapon techs are much the same only Blacksmith replaces the Outfitter as the jack of all trades. And you have weaponsmith and fletcher as the specialists. And of course there are techs that cross the boundary into both weapons and armour..

    Ohh and I never even mentioned jewelry.

    Unless your going to make it that Outfitter and Blacksmith are unable to make ANY Techs in which case I would further disagree with the idea of making all techs, tech kits.

    And I don't believe that we'll see tech kits appear on vendors because of the sheer hastle in obtaining the tech comps. The reality is in Istaria (or at least on Order) generally speaking if you need something made you find someone who can craft it (if you can't make it yourself) and all they ask is that you provide the tech comps... sometimes they might also request the resource but not always. However they very very rarely If ever charge.. I know I never charge and I won't.

    Also you haven't said weather or not we will need the relevant skill to apply a tech to an item?

    Further more like Guaran said I would much rather have the time spent either fixing things that are broken (ie stand against darkness, Shining Blades, Life strike etc) or introducing new content such as the epic spells mentioned or perhaps reintroducing quests to get items such as the Zealot.
    Last edited by Calyndrell; December 31st, 2014 at 12:25 AM.
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  14. #14

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    It could be argued either way actually. It could reduce as you suggest or it could increase as players would be able to buy specific tech kits from players. Or you might also be able to stock consigners with tech kits and actually see a small economy again.
    It could be, but the logic doesn't support an increase. Taking a look at similar changes in the past supports the outcome of it being reduced rather than increased. Confectioner, alchemist, scholar, and tinker schools have had changes made to them in the past, all of which should have supported and helped Istaria see an increase in player interactions and economy. Although they were all great changes and content additions, a boost to the economy in game is something that never happened and the economy is still broken.

    Past threads on the subject of a working economy in game are all over these forums and have lead to the same answer. There is no way to fix the economy of the game and how it works (or doesn't) unless the crafting and vendor systems are completely rewritten or redesigned.

    Moving on to address and further expand on player to player interactions. Player to player interactions do not occur with consigners and vendors. With techniques added on at the time of item creation there is far more interaction that goes on then there would be with a system of mass produced tech-kits which would get stocked on a consigner/vendor for cheap, just as potions, dye-kits, scrolls, and confectioner items already are.

    At present, if a player wants an item with techniques on it, then they must ask a crafter who has the techs they want to make it for them. The player must describe the weapon/armour/jewelry item that they want made and what techs they want on it to the crafter. The crafter will most likely let the player know what tech components are needed and how many, and the player will have to fetch those. Once the comps are gotten, the crafter then has to assemble the item for the player, so they have to meet with each other. The item is then made and payment if required is exchanged along with the finished item. That is quite a fair amount of player to player interaction for an item that has techniques on it.

    With a tech-kit the crafter would be able to mass produce them and place them on a consigner or vendor for sale. Tech-kits would be just another line of mass-stock consigned goods, handled in the way in which potions, dye-kits, scrolls, and confectioner goods already are in game. The only interaction made player to player would be for a player to ask and be told by the crafter (or another player) to go see the consigner or vendor, (or to aid the crafter in noting that their stock on the connie was low and would have to be replenished.)

    All of the above when taken together shows that there is little to no chance for any increase in interaction, and if anything it shows that a decrease is the most likely outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    Just sounds like way too much work without much real return on investment for the players. I'd much rather amon (or whoever would be doing the work) worked on say some new epic quests for new epic spells like Banshee, Fury of the Power Demon, etc. New story/lore.
    Don't know how I missed this, but I fully agree with it. I would rather see this.


    You see an Ice Wall Corner, I see a Tardis.
    "

    "Pen Pineapple Apple Pen"


  15. #15

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Without getting too offtopic, as far as the economy goes, it's not completely broken (on Chaos, New Trismus routinely has 2500 items listed). However the "craft it for free" might have some blame as to why there just isn't an economy. And of course the player population affects it too. I know Order likes to be friendly and give everything away in a sense.. We are all friends. But on Chaos, I charge for everything except tier 1 for new players (I might list something for a few hundred cp just to get it on connie). But the rest I charge for. I craft Thundercloud V, fully teched, and list it for 2 to 2.2g depending on the techs applied, and have sold at least 40 like that. I sell pv scales for 1g. Unrelenting winds V with primal flash for 129s. Everything sells. And it might seem "expensive" and for me it isn't about the money really (although the time spent gathering comps directly affects the prices I charge). It's about the time spent to produce the item. But I learned long ago that doing everything for a guildie can backfire. They get to 100, need to go work on gathering comps to get their t5 gear, no one else does it for them, they quit.

    As mentioned above, it's a fair amount of work getting a set of gear made. What techs can I get on my rings? Greaves? It's a mix of what can and cannot apply. With kits, newbies will be buying Spirit I tech and trying to apply it to everything, but it will not go on greaves. A crafter actually helps steer them through that process of "what techs would be best on this piece?" Remove the interaction and something meant to make it easier, will just add to the confusion, at least for new players.

    On the flip-side, since a tech kit would require the comps to craft, and comp hunting takes time (my overarching factor in cost), they would sell for decent coin. Or players would just ask if someone could craft the tech kits... Thinking about the existing in game tech kits like Battleforged, rarely do I see those for sale. That's a good litmus test to see if making all the techs into kits would really accomplish much in the market. Dev's go to all the trouble to make these new forms, and no one bothers... the time that needs spent gathering comps to list kits for sale quickly becomes a chore that someone just decides to let someone else worry about. Before you know it no one is bothering. It's back to the "go get the comps and then I will craft it" scenario...
    Last edited by Guaran; December 31st, 2014 at 04:48 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    Without getting too offtopic, as far as the economy goes, it's not completely broken (on Chaos, New Trismus routinely has 2500 items listed). However the "craft it for free" might have some blame as to why there just isn't an economy. And of course the player population affects it too.
    Items in demand (consumables) are selling on the Chaos NT connie (potions, formulas, crystals (not T5), scrolls, food, techniques, kits).

    Armor/Weapons/Tools/Spells are rarely sold as 'teched' on the connie (my assumption here is everyone's requirements for techs differ so one teched combo doesn't satisfy all). The demand for unteched versions isn't really there as once players understand the technique system, they don't want to buy unteched.

    However if they could buy an unteched item, and then purchase kits to apply (sale1 for an unteched item, sale2 for a kit, sale3 for a kit, sale4 for a kit) we have a market for the unteched products and the kits.

    From my point of view, allowing more tech kits will create a demand for products that don't currently sell very well via the consigners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arzel Rashemi;
    It could be, but the logic doesn't support an increase. Taking a look at similar changes in the past supports the outcome of it being reduced rather than increased. Confectioner, alchemist, scholar, and tinker schools have had changes made to them in the past, all of which should have supported and helped Istaria see an increase in player interactions and economy. Although they were all great changes and content additions, a boost to the economy in game is something that never happened and the economy is still broken.
    Using a consigner is still a form of player interaction (albeit via proxy as supply). I generate a lot more sales when I am offline than when I am online (would prefer to not have to goto work or have to sleep but....). However its a matter of how you choose to sell your wares/services.

    As a snapshot; (this is including money spent on connie fees)
    If I look at Custard's coin he has made around 4g in consigner sales from NT since last weekend selling T1-T5.
    Chasing has made about 15g from the Clearport connie selling high value items over same period of time.

    Only downside with the connies at the moment is that some of the trade filters don't work, and the free account players are severely capped in how many stacks they can list.
    Last edited by Chasing; December 31st, 2014 at 06:16 AM. Reason: grammar
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  17. #17

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    As mentioned above, it's a fair amount of work getting a set of gear made. What techs can I get on my rings? Greaves? It's a mix of what can and cannot apply. With kits, newbies will be buying Spirit I tech and trying to apply it to everything, but it will not go on greaves. A crafter actually helps steer them through that process of "what techs would be best on this piece?" Remove the interaction and something meant to make it easier, will just add to the confusion, at least for new players.
    Yep. And thats just ANOTHER reason why I am against tech kits.. Unless your going to have some riduclously long list for "Can be applied to...." but then won't we also need one for "Conflicts with" I am a old player and a reasonably capable crafter and even with a GMC crafters help making my tier V crafting gear was still a head ache. For a new player your gonna make them give themselves a lobotomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chasing View Post
    Using a consigner is still a form of player interaction (albeit via proxy as supply). I generate a lot more sales when I am offline than when I am online (would prefer to not have to goto work or have to sleep but....). However its a matter of how you choose to sell your wares/services.
    Yes It is a form of player interaction... interaction with an NPC that is. it is not Player to player.. Consigners are an NPC facility for players to sell gumpf and garbage.
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  18. #18

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    I like the idea as an optional thing, since it would allow crafters to offer more a la carte options for goods. However, I'd like to see more reason to use the less-popular techs, since right now, spell damage and accuracy are essential for every spell.

    As for which school should be able to craft them, I'd like to suggest something that hasn't been tried before in Istaria, but is an essential part of any healthy game economy. I believe that we need a system where each craft school needs to rely on other related schools to get the most benefit, and especially needs to utilize certain things that can't be obtained through that craft school alone. Istaria has next to no reason for different crafting schools to trade with each other. Techs would be a good start.

    I'd actually like to suggest a hybrid of the two options you suggested here. Make the crafting of the tech kits themselves tied to the appropriate specialist crafting school. However, make them require purified essence orbs (and more than just 4 of them, please) to craft, which can only be made by Enchanters.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    How about leave existing ones as they are and make new ones come as tech kit and technique? =) (like future Evasion and Magic Evasion techs)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Techniques

    Support idea of existing two ways.
    As it is for weapon and tools color kits: if you're high lvl crafter - get your non-combat comps, and add on creation; or use tech kit, that reguairs combat comps
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