blight delta 265-discussion

[Vahrokh]

Should it? Why? mechanically yes dragons and bipeds are different but it is still the same game.. over a 15 min battle.. A dragon and a biped should be roughly equal as long as they are the same lvl I would even say a biped should possibly require its rating to be Plus 130 to match the dragon... but only possibly

What I am trying to elude to is that Dragons as my wife calls them are a "one trick pony" and that Should NOT be the case.. so GR is being changed and other abilities are being brought into line. the fact that dragons can't shred a brandnew foe every 15 seconds just means they have to think about the fights a little more.

You are so right, yet so wrong.

The "one trick pony-tis" is a disease affecting dragons since when GR was invented (and before spells were made decent enough to make casters viable). GR was the "fast and furious" patch to make dragons playable, a known crutch.
But here are three catches:

1) If you remove an old crutch, it's not like every piece neatly falls in place. The long awaited dragons revamp needs to happen. I am sad I did not read the forums before it was too late, else I'd have tested dragon gameplay and provided some feedback about if the other abilities buffs are balanced against this GR nerf.


2) Dragons are all about raw power. This is a VERY important concept that somehow just flies over bipeds heads.
Sure, bipeds might do some less spike damage but they can have incredible control (recall the motto: "power is nothing without control"). A whole spawn that is permastunned is going to die much easier than having to out-do the spawn healers (WA mobs of course) and out-DPS the effects of stuns and DoTs.
Take in example the nasty voodoo guys down the coast south-ish of Harro. They come in groups, they can easily destroy an "overpowered dragon" as they employ all sorts of abilities whereas the dragon has more or less only his raw power to kill them before he dies.

Now, remove the raw power from a race that only lives because of that and you are back to 2004 dragons, that is the quintessence of useless. I still recall taking TWENTY MINUTES to kill a dwarf healer. Meanwhile a biped with any interrupt or stun would kill them in a couple of seconds.

3) "But dragons only level up one class, while bipeds need to level up many. Some need to level more than 1 class to get the incredible control": this is the SEED at the foundation of some of the biggest Istaria fights and playerbase losses. Dragons were never given the option to put in their character 1000 levels. They'd get to level 100 and game over => switch to another MMORPG.

Being with the same main character that can't ever upgrade for 12 years is incredibly frustrating, and the main reason why I play so little these days. There are those who love playing 100 alts and those who love to hone and polish their one, beloved main character to the impossible and beyond.

[LOVWYRM]

ok,
and if I am the only one in this game who speaks up so,
and if this is my last post on this forum cause you tear me limb from limb^^


the cooldown of gold rage did ot affect my dragons dramatically.
30 sec or 1 min CD does not make a big difference to how it was before.
I still win all fights I won before- and I even enjoy the new tactics I have to use- it took me
one day to find out how to.
Yes- my dragons are uber- but I am not the strongest dragon on the shard- that was never my intention.
I still do a crazy amount of damage- and 1 hits are the same as before.
I still solo Surtheim like nothing, kill anchors and mass slaughter golems. rift creatures and what there is.
Pls dragons: Fighting with only GR- is that such exciting?
Why not think about rearranging hotkeys (what I did) and try something else ,while GR is recovering?
Do you all, who complain, use the dragon techs on claws and scales that are ingame(andorr, thurid, grand magus for example)?
Do you use the dragon crystals that are proivided by the crystalshaper school?
There are some things more, and I gladly share my "secrets" with all who ask me for.
I yesterday trained a returning friend, who complained about his drag- and it took us 3o min to find out what there is to do. After that, we tested all in combat, and found out , he is as successful as Lov is now (Lov= hybride caster, Luna = hybride melee).

Pls- do not the reduce the damage output of GR- its one of the things you can develop yourself, while learning how to play a dragon.
Wearing right scales/claws at the right place at the right time is one of the keys too.

Vahrokh old friend, first time in all those years I disagree with you: Dragons are still a bit overpowered- they still can do things I shall not talk about here, cause Amon and Velea are listening^^
its all a question of experience and how to s.
I play drags for 11 years now- I studied every patchnote, and took all I could get for my dragons.
I tried 1000 things over the years to make my drags better. Now I am uber- and still am after this " GR- nerf".
30 seconds can`t touch my dragons. I wished all would try and find out.
Considering me: Its more fun than before-


on a side note: I complained loud and whiningly the loss of the gift slots.
Forum people tought me lesson, a gladly learned:
It did not mean a thing- did not change anything to bad.
My biped friends now found other nice things to buff me up with
(though all testing was without any biped buffs)

[Arzel Rashemi]

ok,
and if I am the only one in this game who speaks up so,
and if this is my last post on this forum cause you tear me limb from limb^^

I agree with you lov, all of that. Hunting is still very viable even with the changes to GR on my dragons. Though fights may take a little longer but even epic fights against reklar and valkor are much the same. I maybe have to boon with 2 more shards than usual. Aside from not having a one button mash fest and having to relearn how to fight, which doesn't take long, nothing else has really change or been made impossible or game breaking.

[Vahrokh]

ok,
and if I am the only one in this game who speaks up so,
and if this is my last post on this forum cause you tear me limb from limb^^


the cooldown of gold rage did ot affect my dragons dramatically.
30 sec or 1 min CD does not make a big difference to how it was before.
I still win all fights I won before- and I even enjoy the new tactics I have to use- it took me
one day to find out how to.
Yes- my dragons are uber- but I am not the strongest dragon on the shard- that was never my intention.
I still do a crazy amount of damage- and 1 hits are the same as before.
I still solo Surtheim like nothing, kill anchors and mass slaughter golems. rift creatures and what there is.
Pls dragons: Fighting with only GR- is that such exciting?
Why not think about rearranging hotkeys (what I did) and try something else ,while GR is recovering?
Do you all, who complain, use the dragon techs on claws and scales that are ingame(andorr, thurid, grand magus for example)?
Do you use the dragon crystals that are proivided by the crystalshaper school?
There are some things more, and I gladly share my "secrets" with all who ask me for.
I yesterday trained a returning friend, who complained about his drag- and it took us 3o min to find out what there is to do. After that, we tested all in combat, and found out , he is as successful as Lov is now (Lov= hybride caster, Luna = hybride melee).

Pls- do not the reduce the damage output of GR- its one of the things you can develop yourself, while learning how to play a dragon.
Wearing right scales/claws at the right place at the right time is one of the keys too.

Vahrokh old friend, first time in all those years I disagree with you: Dragons are still a bit overpowered- they still can do things I shall not talk about here, cause Amon and Velea are listening^^
its all a question of experience and how to s.
I play drags for 11 years now- I studied every patchnote, and took all I could get for my dragons.
I tried 1000 things over the years to make my drags better. Now I am uber- and still am after this " GR- nerf".
30 seconds can`t touch my dragons. I wished all would try and find out.
Considering me: Its more fun than before-


on a side note: I complained loud and whiningly the loss of the gift slots.
Forum people tought me lesson, a gladly learned:
It did not mean a thing- did not change anything to bad.
My biped friends now found other nice things to buff me up with
(though all testing was without any biped buffs)

You can't balance a game around an 11 year veteran player with all the best stuff, best gear, best rewards from advanced craft schools and whatever.
Do you believe a newcomer with little knowledge of the game and the community is going to have any incentive to stay long enough to get as good as you are?
He'll just see a number of less than optimal things AND he'll see him performing bad.

Said that... I am not going to tear you in anything.

I have fought for this game when it was my prime time, now it's time for the younger generations to defend themselves.
If they won't care... too bad for them.

[LOVWYRM]

Vah, I know you won`t tear me into something^^

And please- your input and wise words were and still ARE most important to the game!

To all you`ve said in your last post I can agree- I`ve said it in many threads before,
that imho the game is (too) hard to play as a newcommer.
Though devs did a lot for them. and the items like techs, cystals and equippment are available for each level.
Sorry if I was not clear- I was talking about high level/vet players in my post, cause we are talking about GR VII

[Calyndrell]

Vah, I know you won`t tear me into something^^

And please- your input and wise words were and still ARE most important to the game!

To all you`ve said in your last post I can agree- I`ve said it in many threads before,
that imho the game is (too) hard to play as a newcommer.
Though devs did a lot for them. and the items like techs, cystals and equippment are available for each level.
Sorry if I was not clear- I was talking about high level/vet players in my post, cause we are talking about GR VII

Let me put this into context. My 12 year old son plays this solo and doesn't whine its too hard. (using the wiki if he needs guidance) and he helps my 8 year old play it. Yes the game is hard for an MMO but not too hard. Personally I am fed up of mmo's (or any type of game) being too easy.
(just to be clear my eldest is level 45 now, which as far as i remember is past the hardest part (30-40))

[Vahrokh]

Let me put this into context. My 12 year old son plays this solo and doesn't whine its too hard. (using the wiki if he needs guidance) and he helps my 8 year old play it. Yes the game is hard for an MMO but not too hard. Personally I am fed up of mmo's (or any type of game) being too easy.
(just to be clear my eldest is level 45 now, which as far as i remember is past the hardest part (30-40))

In the other page a person with rating biped 232 spoke. Now, you with 7 level 100 classes speak.

Why can't pure dragon players tell their own mind without being reprimanded like this?

It's 12 years I am waiting for the day I can become a walking dragon god because I grinded 10 dragon classes to 100.

But alas, I can't. I am stuck with 1 adventure class that will never get awesome defense, unsurpassable crowd control, ability to keep a whole group alive and so on.

We do not have a choice to become super powerful. If we had it, and refused to earn supreme power, then you'd be allright.
But we can't grind 3 adv classes, much less 10. Yet, the game IS being played by walking gods.

We need to be made able to give something worthwhile to a group. We had extreme damage... period. Lost that, we are back to the past, where the only way for a dragon to get a group was because of friendship, not because of being worth it.
Now, I appreciate the power of friendship, but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth, knowing you are being carried by mercyful friends.
It's original RoP all over again: even Lunus had to depend on bipeds masters.

You know what? There's a new MMO with playable dragons being past concept status and its forums have a lot of Istaria dragon players. What do you believe it shall happen to our beloved Istaria if that competitor will actually deliver? It promises very powerful dragons... that's a very strong call to dragon players.

The "you shall only ever be able to level to 100 and thus it's fair you are a gimp (*)" idea grew stale 5 years ago.



(*) Istarian dragons are far from gimps, but they don't play alone. Power is relative... anyone dares to even compare a dragon with a rating 200 player?

[Arzel Rashemi]

In the other page a person with rating biped 232 spoke. Now, you with 7 level 100 classes speak.

so, you're assuming because someone lists their biped down that they don't also have a dragon or alts ergo they do not know what they are talking about? And assumptions that pure dragon players can not speak without being reprimanded? Those are some rich assumptions there.

Fact is, the only reason any posts are getting 'reprimanded' in reply is because they are not in the majority of players who have said plainly that they think the new changes are survivable and have been alright with them after testing them and trying them out. Those who want their 'i win button' don't seem to want to come up with constructive alternatives, instead they shout louder and throw their teddy threatening to rage quit and being rude in the face of any who disagree with their view, which hardly does any good. Its very hard to find any sympathy or common ground to civilly discuss with posts like that.
.

[Calyndrell]

In the other page a person with rating biped 232 spoke. Now, you with 7 level 100 classes speak.

Why can't pure dragon players tell their own mind without being reprimanded like this?

It's 12 years I am waiting for the day I can become a walking dragon god because I grinded 10 dragon classes to 100.

But alas, I can't. I am stuck with 1 adventure class that will never get awesome defense, unsurpassable crowd control, ability to keep a whole group alive and so on.

We do not have a choice to become super powerful. If we had it, and refused to earn supreme power, then you'd be allright.
But we can't grind 3 adv classes, much less 10. Yet, the game IS being played by walking gods.

We need to be made able to give something worthwhile to a group. We had extreme damage... period. Lost that, we are back to the past, where the only way for a dragon to get a group was because of friendship, not because of being worth it.
Now, I appreciate the power of friendship, but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth, knowing you are being carried by mercyful friends.
It's original RoP all over again: even Lunus had to depend on bipeds masters.

You know what? There's a new MMO with playable dragons being past concept status and its forums have a lot of Istaria dragon players. What do you believe it shall happen to our beloved Istaria if that competitor will actually deliver? It promises very powerful dragons... that's a very strong call to dragon players.

The "you shall only ever be able to level to 100 and thus it's fair you are a gimp (*)" idea grew stale 5 years ago.



(*) Istarian dragons are far from gimps, but they don't play alone. Power is relative... anyone dares to even compare a dragon with a rating 200 player?

Firstly my sig only mentions some of the classes on ONE of my chars, and fails to mention my 3700+day old ancient dragon who is a Lunus Did the OLD ROP with a SINGLE adult mentor and never had a "BIPED MASTER". So don't assume that a sig tells the FULL STORY because it doesn't and isn't meant to.

Secondly A dragons ability is completely seperate to its rating, quests make all the difference to a dragon.

Thirdly, I have NEVER done the biped/dragon thing thats not what I was getting at.

Forthly. My son is playing a HATCHLING. His GR has a 1min30 timer and does just FINE. What I WAS getting at is Don't use the "new players don't have all the Vet stuff so won't do well" as an excuse because its not true.

and Finally. I would never compare my dragon to a rating 200 biped but there are dragons I would compare and not poorly either Its simple fact Dragons punch WELL above their rating for damage.. and I have NO objection to that at all because dragons get their str through QUESTS as I already said. By the Same account GR needed fixing and for a short while dragons are somewhat weakened.. but give them time and they will continue to make balance adjustments.

[Machaeon]

We had extreme damage... period. Lost that, we are back to the past, where the only way for a dragon to get a group was because of friendship, not because of being worth it.
Now, I appreciate the power of friendship, but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth, knowing you are being carried by mercyful friends.
It's original RoP all over again: even Lunus had to depend on bipeds masters.

We still have extreme damage, only change is you can't OBLITERATE something every fifteen seconds anymore. I have hunted EXTENSIVELY in the Rift since the moment the patch went live, taken down several epics with groups, and done some minor comp hunting. And guess what: no real difference. Anything that requires a group with the new GR has ALWAYS required a group and always will. Yes there was a smidgen of difference in the time it took to kill the epics (Rekkie took 3 more shards than usual, no big deal) but it's absolutely not game breaking.

Mind you that all this hunting was on my hybrid build whose GR is crap. For those of you who have melee dragons I can only assume you have an easier time doing all of the above in shorter time than my hybrid can.... since you do more damage.

As for dragons being reliant on bipeds: there are quests and entire quest lines that depend on biped crafted items since those quests were implemented. What part of this patch changed any of that?

[Vahrokh]

Fact is, the only reason any posts are getting 'reprimanded' in reply is because they are not in the majority of players who have said plainly that they think the new changes are survivable and have been alright with them after testing them and trying them out.

First of all, I believe one single word said by Guaran more than 100000 people with a dragon alt. If he says it's too much of a nerf then it IS too much, period.

Second, I don't even see the point at making "survivable" changes. So what's the quality, the merit in doing "survivable" changes?
I don't recall a single page, a single thread anywhere complaining against "overpowered dragons" in years.

Gold rage is an "hastily slapped together" ability, created when dragons - with ME (and 2-3 others) at their head - revolted enough until we became something better than merely "survivable". We could finally be worth a fraction of a multiclassed biped.
Sadly, Gold rage would then stay for many years, it became a crutch, a staple around which our class lived and died.

Now it looks like Amon wants finally look at our class and make it more all round balanced and less reliant and even defined by GR.

But a review of our class has to keep its overall worth, because - believe it or not - a level 100 dragon without GR and nothing else done becomes a 2004 dragon, that is equivalent to a rating 70 (single class) melee biped.

Now, I want to experiment the changes myself (I can't log in into the game, working on it with support) because I am willing to:

1) Trust Amon to be sensible in what he's going to do.
2) Trust Guaran whatever he says.

Whereas I do not value a lot the mindset of: "well it's survivable", "well, I have 184M hoard so spending millions hoard is fine", "well, I have my high rating biped anyway so who cares if the alt becomes "survivable".

I regret to say, that I LOVE my dragon with all myself and am not going to settle for "a survivable", second grade main character.
I WISH we were modified to be able to grind 10 classes to 100, so we could finally be epic like the other races with 10 classes at 100, and nobody would feel entitled at putting us down.

[Arzel Rashemi]

First of all, I believe one single word said by Guaran more than 100000 people with a dragon alt.

And that right there is why I can't give any wieght to what you have to say with more than a grain of salt. You aren't willing to be fair or civil and take into account the views and feedback of your fellow players.

Gold rage is an "hastily slapped together" ability, created when dragons - with ME (and 2-3 others) at their head - revolted enough until we became something better than merely "survivable". We could finally be worth a fraction of a multiclassed biped.
Sadly, Gold rage would then stay for many years, it became a crutch, a staple around with our class lived and died.

Ok, so you're upset because the change you helped make way back then which resulted in dragons getting an unbalanced ability that caused years of tension and discord in the community, is being changed and rebalanced? I fail to see how that is part of a problem here with why the GR change should be reversed.

Also, I was around before GR existed too. You and Guaran are not the only players who were around before merge. I do remember those days. I also remember having to be patient as nerfs and rebalances went through one after the other, sometimes taking months before we who played the game saw the end results. That hasn't changed. So all this rage and impatience over a change that hasn't even produced the end results yet seems absurd from anyone who has been around as long as we have and through this all before.

[Calyndrell]

But a review of our class has to keep its overall worth, because - believe it or not - a level 100 dragon without GR and nothing else done becomes a 2004 dragon, that is equivalent to a rating 70 (single class) melee biped.

Your right I don't beleive it. Dragons even without GR are a VERY different creature to what they were 2004 I call BS on this besides the point GR is still very much IN game. its just not the insta nuke EVERY SINGLE COMBAT! it used to be. Hell I wish my biped could Multi Crit every minute....

Now, I want to experiment the changes myself (I can't log in into the game,

So your whining and you HAVEN'T even tested it? Do i need to say more? I didn't think so.

[Machaeon]

Vahrokh... the change isn't merely 'survivable' as you put it. I play a dragon 99.999% of the time, my biped is the alt not the other way around. I may not have been here since the game came out but I do understand the game and dragons well enough to provide feedback that actually means something. I have played and compared the way I handled everything in the game pre-patch and post-patch. And I can safely say there is no major difference. Noticeable difference? Yes, sure if you want to take a magnifying glass to everything in the game. But the difference is not significant.

My point is: the change doesn't affect dragons as much as you think it does. Not by a long shot.

[Vahrokh]

And that right there is why I can't give any wieght to what you have to say with more than a grain of salt. You aren't willing to be fair or civil and take into account the views and feedback of your fellow players.

That's because I have been through 15 years of nerfs across a dozen of MMOs, what annoys me the most is seeing a class getting nerfed and a number of guys condescendly minimizing it when it's not minimal.

Ok, so you're upset because the change you helped make way back then which resulted in dragons getting an unbalanced ability that caused years of tension and discord in the community, is being changed and rebalanced? I fail to see how that is part of a problem here with why the GR change should be reversed.

The imbalance was before GR was put in game and the tension was what led to GR being put in game, not what it started. Since GR exists, nobody really had anything to complain about regarding to overall dragon "power".
It's not my fault it was made in that way, all we wanted was a fair game, a game where players paying exactly like the others, not only got a class with less replay value (level 1-100 once, be done) but also hard capped.
GR being reversed? It should not be reversed, it should become a normal multistrike and have the rest of the abilities modified so that a dragon past the changes is exactly as much worth as before.

[Calyndrell]

That's because I have been through 15 years of nerfs across a dozen of MMOs, what annoys me the most is seeing a class getting nerfed and a number of guys condescendly minimizing it when it's not minimal.

It is minimal. its still there. its still got a great timer (1 min for what is essentially a critical strike combined with multi strike)

GR being reversed? It should not be reversed, it should become a normal multistrike

Ravage is a NORMAL multistrike. and other abilities ARE getting redressed..


slight change of note.. I just noticed that everyone complaining that the GR nerf is too much is from Chaos and everyone saying its not a big deal and "we can cope" is from Order.. LOL I find that really amusing

[Guaran]

...Gold rage is an "hastily slapped together" ability, created when dragons - with ME (and 2-3 others) at their head - revolted enough until we became something better than merely "survivable". We could finally be worth a fraction of a multiclassed biped.
Sadly, Gold rage would then stay for many years, it became a crutch, a staple around which our class lived and died.

Now it looks like Amon wants finally look at our class and make it more all round balanced and less reliant and even defined by GR.

But a review of our class has to keep its overall worth, because - believe it or not - a level 100 dragon without GR and nothing else done becomes a 2004 dragon, that is equivalent to a rating 70 (single class) melee biped....

That's pretty much true. Before both Gold Rage AND plentiful hoard, Dragons were ridiculously weak. It took many forum posts, many many lost friends before Tulga came along and finally made some improvements, mainly Gold Rage, which allowed dragons to be a valued group member, and survive a lot of fights on their own.

This 60 second cooldown, up from 15 seconds is effectively a 75% damage reduction in 1 ability. Out best and highest damaging ability.

I think where Vahrokh is frustrated, is several players just get on and say "oh it's fine for me and my 8 year old, ANYONE CAN DO IT" or someone else get's on and says "MY PLAYSTYLE IS FINE... I DUNNO WHY YOU CRYIN, JUST PLAY LIKE ME AND YOU WILL=WIN". It's great some players have adapted. I'm doing better on live shard than I was with a several years old copy that was weaker than my current toon on Chaos. Fact is, we shouldn't HAVE to play a hybrid if we do not want to. You are doing fine because you rarely used gold rage before, so you aren't seeing a difference. That's fine for you, but doesn't apply to everybody. So you spoke your piece that "these changes are fine", and the rest of us are going to speak OUR piece as well, and continue to say that for us, the changes are not fine.

Amon has said he is looking into increasing damage on other abilities. I am totally fine with beefing up other abilities in exchange for the change. Assuming the change equals what was taken. I haven't yet seen that.

Vah mentioned earlier that now, most of the time we are just plain auto-attacking, everything is on cooldown. I have noticed this myself last night, and my first thought was that the recycles on many other abilites could all use being lowered. Bite, Tailwhip I believe are both 2 minutes. How about 60 seconds? How about some new attacks with new animations? Decent damage?

What I want, what I believe Vahrokh wants, and many other unrepresented Dragons on the forums want, is dps back to our old dps. However you accomplish that, I am willing to give it a go. But I think our dps should go up. As I said before, we should be able to outdamage a biped warrior. Even a 10 school multiclassed biped warrior. Dragons =! bipeds, so stop trying to make us "equal".

If its a problem of game balance, where a mob is too strong for bipeds if made with dragons in mind, then put that mob someplace only Dragons can go. The challenge could be split up in some way so that bipeds have plenty of their own challenges tailored to them, and the same can be done for Dragons. Open up the eastern continent, and make a spot where an Ancient dragon can fly through, but no one else.

My point is, don't just keep nerfing Dragons because it's difficult to balance mobs for both us and Ped's. I think it's fine that there might be some mobs peds are much better at tackling, and others where Dragons fit the bill. This path was somewhat already started, with the mobs with varying resistances and vulnerabilities. More of that = fun and challenging.

[Vahrokh]

Your right I don't beleive it. Dragons even without GR are a VERY different creature to what they were 2004 I call BS on this besides the point GR is still very much IN game. its just not the insta nuke EVERY SINGLE COMBAT! it used to be. Hell I wish my biped could Multi Crit every minute....



So your whining and you HAVEN'T even tested it? Do i need to say more? I didn't think so.

Thank you for your kind words.

I play a multiclassed biped too. Whereas he can't multi every minute, he can do something off another class instead. Sure, some cooldowns are the best and I keep them for the harder stuff (example, for the named in a golems spawn) but while the best cooldowns are recharging, there are others that become ready. Result: something IS up EVERY SINGLE COMBAT.

[Vahrokh]

That's pretty much true. Before both Gold Rage AND plentiful hoard, Dragons were ridiculously weak. It took many forum posts, many many lost friends before Tulga came along and finally made some improvements, mainly Gold Rage, which allowed dragons to be a valued group member, and survive a lot of fights on their own.

This 60 second cooldown, up from 15 seconds is effectively a 75% damage reduction in 1 ability. Out best and highest damaging ability.

There's no "like" on this forum so take this as one

You said what I wanted to say and much better. I am so Lunus inside I immediately run for the eyes plus English is my 3rd language and it looks like writing what in my tongue would be nothing special, sounds expecially nasty in English. I am sorry of that.

[Machaeon]

I think where Vahrokh is frustrated, is several players just get on and say "oh it's fine for me and my 8 year old, ANYONE CAN DO IT" or someone else get's on and says "MY PLAYSTYLE IS FINE... I DUNNO WHY YOU CRYIN, JUST PLAY LIKE ME AND YOU WILL=WIN". It's great some players have adapted. I'm doing better on live shard than I was with a several years old copy that was weaker than my current toon on Chaos. Fact is, we shouldn't HAVE to play a hybrid if we do not want to. You are doing fine because you rarely used gold rage before, so you aren't seeing a difference. That's fine for you, but doesn't apply to everybody. So you spoke your piece that "these changes are fine", and the rest of us are going to speak OUR piece as well, and continue to say that for us, the changes are not fine.

Amon has said he is looking into increasing damage on other abilities. I am totally fine with beefing up other abilities in exchange for the change. Assuming the change equals what was taken. I haven't yet seen that.

My point wasn't "my playstyle works, everyone should copy me" it was that I haven't changed my play style AT ALL and noticed no significant difference. I do use GR extensively on my hybrid, every chance I get in fact. Just because I have other viable options doesn't mean I don't use the best option out there. It's only when I'm being extremely lazy that I'll just sit and drain bolt things to death, otherwise I use GR for extensive grinding. I am absolutely not the best player on Order, not even close. I'd wager I'm not even the best hybrid out there either.

What I said earlier still applies: my hybrid's GR is crap compared to a melee build. This means that when grinding the SAME MOB a melee build will get better results than I do assuming we both use GR for the most part (which I do). Meaning in the same situation where both of us are relying on GR, they have it easier and should have nothing to complain about.

Amon did mention upping the damage for other abilities and/or lowering the cooldown. I absolutely support this. No complaints anywhere about that.