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Thread: Dragon Stances

  1. #1

    Default Dragon Stances

    There are seven stance colors that can be used. Would repurpose existing stances for Dragons as this:

    Conqueror Stance (+T&C, % chance to increase melee damage by 10%)
    Primalist Stance (+Primal, % chance to increase spell damage by 10%)
    Soldier Stance (+Armor, % chance to decrease incoming melee damage by 10%),
    Flame Stance (+DBreath, % chance to cause Primal DoT on hit)
    Protector Stance (% chance to heal 5% on incoming hit)
    Adept Stance (+MagicDefense, % chance to decrease incoming spell damage by 10%)
    Terror Stance (% chance to cause mez - Fear - on ranged attack)

    Comments, feedback welcomed.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Very interesting I like the sound of these alot.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Sounds very interesting indeed.

    When you say "% chance to..." do you mean when you use the stance, or do you mean on every hit/attack? Would be interested to know what you think appropriate % chances are... e.g. if it's 10% chance, with 10% bonus, in the long-run that's only 1% increase... not too noticeable (I would like to think a long-run bonus would be in the vicinity of 5%).

    In the case of the mez and the Dot (Terror and Flame), I think they might need to have higher chances than the others given that the abilities that would cause these to proc are likely to be used less in general e.g. IF the Dot procs on Breaths and with their shared timer now, I would think the % chance would have to be at least 20%. Maybe instead of a mez, which I'm guessing would break from the very next hit, a 5-hit root, or stun might be more applicable?
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Its a nice idea, which I do very much like. I would support it.

    However, can you possibly put three extra/new stances into the game and leave the old three? I know its an odd request, but several mods (and modders) use the red, blue, and green stances for mods.


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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I like the new stances totally. I am supportive of this idea. But also leave the old stance cause some mobs do use different stance. Including Daknor the Beserk.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Love the idea, would very much enjoy to see this in Istaria whether it's the full 7 Amon suggests or filling in the extras and leaving the originals.
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I like the look of these, may give us back our Dragon status as long as they won't take up a gift slot ;)
    On a purely selfish state I don't use mods so i'd want all 7 of them implemented.

    nb, we do already get Dragon Fear for a stun after Ancient but as usual it never procs on anything above level 50....

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I like it.
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Restating what I said elsewhere:

    I really do love this idea to try to give more variety in combat and if it went in as-is I'd have little to complain about. :) I'm not saying 'no', I'm suggesting a different approach I suppose?

    I feel that stances like this would be another "use and forget" kind of feature (or just another buff) where you shift only occasionally depending on what you're using/built as. I don't want to copy the person where I heard this idea from but in general, I do feel that giving specific abilities boosts based on a stance rather than a few %-chance-%-damage/effect buffs. For example, giving Refreshing Breeze the possibility of giving you fortify for 30 seconds and a very low chance of a "stance heal" add-on that gives you an extra 100hp/sec for 5 seconds or so. Another stance would give Ravage a 50% 5-second bleed chance (doesn't stack, high % because of it's cooldown) and a 5% chance of Silver Strike gaining another strike. Something along those lines would make shifting stances and combat tactics much more than 'wait for x to come off cooldown'.

    Stances in general like Amon posted would definitely get you thinking on what you want to hit next in fights, but in average gameplay I feel people would hit one and forget it for the rest of the time. It isn't necessarily bad but it's just not what I have come to understand stances as.

    My two cents. +1 support overall. :)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I like this for Dragons. I'm guessing that the original RGB stances would become 3 of the new stances (and therefore may not affect mods.) The original RGB stances were supposed to be combat Rock/Paper/Scissors, but turned out to be pretty boring in practice. I hoped you'd someday improve them to Rock/Paper/Scissors/Spock/Lizard, or something like that, but this new direction works, too.

    Rock/Paper/Scissors didn't require any choice - you just reacted to whatever the mob opponent had up. The Spock/Lizard variant would at least require a choice each time you switched stances.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by Daulnay View Post
    I like this for Dragons. I'm guessing that the original RGB stances would become 3 of the new stances (and therefore may not affect mods.) The original RGB stances were supposed to be combat Rock/Paper/Scissors, but turned out to be pretty boring in practice. I hoped you'd someday improve them to Rock/Paper/Scissors/Spock/Lizard, or something like that, but this new direction works, too.

    Rock/Paper/Scissors didn't require any choice - you just reacted to whatever the mob opponent had up. The Spock/Lizard variant would at least require a choice each time you switched stances.
    I always liked the dynamic.. particularly if we linked in 5 stances like you suggested.. if the various stances signifcantly improved abilities.. for example IF red stance improved auto attacks by 200% reduced special attacks by 25%.. but blue stance improved Claw strike by 100% but weakened tail whip and ravage by 50%.. etc you wouldn't dare just "fire and forget" the stances and would actually make you plan out your attacks.. combine that with the mobs changing stances which in turn might increase or decrease damage from various stances (even if it was fairly random) would add an element of tactics.. something i would love to see..

    (waits to hear the various shout downs of "thats a horrible idea").. ooh and btw I would love to see the same system implemented for bipeds... sadly i know its not realistic..
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    There are seven stance colors that can be used. Would repurpose existing stances for Dragons as this:

    Conqueror Stance (+T&C, % chance to increase melee damage by 10%)
    Primalist Stance (+Primal, % chance to increase spell damage by 10%)
    Soldier Stance (+Armor, % chance to decrease incoming melee damage by 10%),
    Flame Stance (+DBreath, % chance to cause Primal DoT on hit)
    Protector Stance (% chance to heal 5% on incoming hit)
    Adept Stance (+MagicDefense, % chance to decrease incoming spell damage by 10%)
    Terror Stance (% chance to cause mez - Fear - on ranged attack)

    Comments, feedback welcomed.
    I like all of these.

    My only question would be on the Terror stance, would it be an unbreakable mezz? Since it's just a %chance to mezz, in heated combat this would be a bit difficult to keep track of on mob groups... trying to avoid breaking the mezz, which mob got hit with it? etc.. So if the effect was unbreakable from incoming hit (could be short duration, say 5 seconds), I think it would be useful, and get used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    I feel that stances like this would be another "use and forget" kind of feature (or just another buff) where you shift only occasionally depending on what you're using/built as.


    That doesn't really bother me. I don't think they were meant to function in the way of the old stances, which you had to keep changing. So these would be more like a "combat style" than a stance needing changed often for defensive reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    ...I do feel that giving specific abilities boosts based on a stance rather than a few %-chance-%-damage/effect buffs. For example, giving Refreshing Breeze the possibility of giving you fortify for 30 seconds and a very low chance of a "stance heal" add-on that gives you an extra 100hp/sec for 5 seconds or so. Another stance would give Ravage a 50% 5-second bleed chance (doesn't stack, high % because of it's cooldown) and a 5% chance of Silver Strike gaining another strike. Something along those lines would make shifting stances and combat tactics much more than 'wait for x to come off cooldown'.


    These sound interesting, but I don't think they would get used. It doesn't make sense to me that a "stance" would somehow make my healing more effective. And that one sounds like a re-hash of Amon's version. This type of implementation sounds more like something suitable as a scale tech, with regards to the refreshing breeze suggestion. But Amon's idea's aren't like the old stances at all, but
    I can see how one might draw that conclusion though. Think of them simply as varied buffs that you can choose 1 from to use, since they always overwrite each other. That in itself can make for an interesting combat mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calyndrell View Post
    ...for example IF red stance improved auto attacks by 200% reduced special attacks by 25%.. but blue stance improved Claw strike by 100% but weakened tail whip and ravage by 50%.. etc you wouldn't dare just "fire and forget" the stances and would actually make you plan out your attacks.. combine that with the mobs changing stances which in turn might increase or decrease damage from various stances (even if it was fairly random) would add an element of tactics.. something i would love to see..
    These sound interesting as well, but these are back to the old type of stance functionality. Which I don't believe is what the new ones were meant to do. And really, the "trade-off" portion isn't really necessary. But I've always felt that stances which only boosted a single ability were odd (there's some biped attacks still like this). There's not really any combat decision with those, you just use the one which buffs one of your attacks. All you had to do was edit the particular abilites' hotkey, and add use whichever stance to it in front of the ability. If there's any combat delay in changing stances, that whole direction is a bad idea.

    I do remember using the old stances all the time, when the mobs used them. But it was so long ago I cannot recall if they had a pre or post delay or not. But using the stance, then doing an attack which does 200% damage, then taking the stance off or changing it, that's 3 combat cycles, just to get 1 attack to do double damage? It's not worth the delays to bother changing it at all. I can just do 3 attacks at 100% damage in the same time span and be better off. Maybe if the damage change was 500%, and had no -damage on something else..
    Last edited by Guaran; March 18th, 2015 at 11:56 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    At only 10% I would have to do a lot of testing to see if it was worth using.
    If it is not a clear improvement it may not get used much.
    Perhaps a % based on level would be something to think about.
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakarius Shadows View Post
    At only 10% I would have to do a lot of testing to see if it was worth using.
    If it is not a clear improvement it may not get used much.
    Perhaps a % based on level would be something to think about.
    The 10% would be based on your level though... at least a good part of it anyway. Your damage relies on your skills and stats, both of which increase at a set rate each level before training points and techniqued gear come into play so your damage does scale with your level though not necessarily linearly. Likewise any incoming damage being reduced 10% would be great, the things you tend to fight should be at or above your level most times anyway and their damage scales with their level so it does scale with your level... indirectly.

    10% does make a difference in close fights, I've died on multiple occasions where if I had been able to heal myself or get a single hit out one second earlier I would have won the fight. If I had been doing more damage or been taking less damage, even by a small amount that would mean I would have won those close fights. Boosting damage output or decreasing damage taken by any amount makes it easier to kill while not being killed. I'd definitely use the stances for that.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by Machaeon View Post
    The 10% would be based on your level though... at least a good part of it anyway. Your damage relies on your skills and stats, both of which increase at a set rate each level before training points and techniqued gear come into play so your damage does scale with your level though not necessarily linearly. Likewise any incoming damage being reduced 10% would be great, the things you tend to fight should be at or above your level most times anyway and their damage scales with their level so it does scale with your level... indirectly.

    10% does make a difference in close fights, I've died on multiple occasions where if I had been able to heal myself or get a single hit out one second earlier I would have won the fight. If I had been doing more damage or been taking less damage, even by a small amount that would mean I would have won those close fights. Boosting damage output or decreasing damage taken by any amount makes it easier to kill while not being killed. I'd definitely use the stances for that.
    Whilst I agree with you mach. The problem with such calculations also comes from the damage loss you would incure by changing stances (because of missed attacks) so actually calculating a true 10% could become fairly difficult if every stance change effectively is the loss of one attack. (kind of wish they could make stances seperate to the actual combat cycle or atleast not interfer with it, although that's probably not possible)
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    There are seven stance colors that can be used. Would repurpose existing stances for Dragons as this:

    Conqueror Stance (+T&C, % chance to increase melee damage by 10%)
    Primalist Stance (+Primal, % chance to increase spell damage by 10%)
    Soldier Stance (+Armor, % chance to decrease incoming melee damage by 10%),
    Flame Stance (+DBreath, % chance to cause Primal DoT on hit)
    Protector Stance (% chance to heal 5% on incoming hit)
    Adept Stance (+MagicDefense, % chance to decrease incoming spell damage by 10%)
    Terror Stance (% chance to cause mez - Fear - on ranged attack)

    Comments, feedback welcomed.
    Yes please. I almost never use the stances (I am still under 100, so perhaps I
    just haven't encountered the need/mobs yet?).
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I'd like to see this implemented as well. The numbers don't seem too overpowered/underpowered.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    I, Yggddrassil, approve !

  19. #19

    Default Re: Dragon Stances

    Closing this thread, just wanted to post that this will be coming in the next update.
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