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Thread: Talk to the Team: Gifts

  1. #21

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    how about 1 hour for crafting buffs and 2 hours for the others will that appease both parties?
    Sindla meant make all the gifts (which presumably will have consumable scrolls added of them) to have 1 hour duration so that more scrolls are used, leading to scroll crafters getting more business. Just here to clarify, I don't have an opinion one way or the other about this.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    A very bad changes by persons...well, who obviously have no crafter toons. Crafter depends upon these gifts, jewellery, armour and expert facilities.
    Please, bear one rule in mind: do not change anything unless not changing brings more damage than changing. Right now, Gifts are just ok, there is no need to change names (too confusing about widowers etc) or effects.
    Better brainstorm something players asked for, like in-game mail.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Maybe I am wrong- but the answers here sound more like
    "lets try to survive this" than "Huzzaah- thats what we`ve always wanted"
    to me.
    Why not simply give us a short break from changes and renaming
    and give us some little real new content, or a nice world project
    (E.G.: You want a vault in Delgarath? So here it is -build it right beside the anchor^^ Will make adventurers AND crafters busy and happy, make it for all tiers-areas).

    I know that different teams/devs work on different projects..but..I think this is something players want more than changed/nerfed/renamed gifts or schools atm.
    Only my 2c.
    Last edited by LOVWYRM; March 15th, 2015 at 07:31 AM.
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by anonimas View Post
    A very bad changes by persons...well, who obviously have no crafter toons. Crafter depends upon these gifts, jewellery, armour and expert facilities.
    Please, bear one rule in mind: do not change anything unless not changing brings more damage than changing. Right now, Gifts are just ok, there is no need to change names (too confusing about widowers etc) or effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    • (NEW) Gift of Knowledge - Bonus to Mystical Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of Artistry - Bonus to Mundane Tradeskills


    Costs, available, etc. have not been determined as this is still in the brainstorming phase. We do recognize that this would impact crafters by removing stat buffs that they rely upon for optimal work. To counter that we'd consider increasing the skill boosts that player-built machines offer.
    Pretty sure crafters would either get a buff or just be the same considering this. To quote Guaran, you'd only need +8 for each skill to match up to current bonuses given by the gifts. If the gifts give +8 and adding in even more crafting skill given by machines... if anything you'd be better off, would you not?

    Unless the machine bonus made up for it, dragons without biped friends would be at a bit of a disadvantage considering the suggested change to Determination and Primal Roar, though.

    I do like the proposed new gifts (Artistry, Knowledge, Benevolence, etc) and I have to say it'd be interesting to try out the changes to Determination/Primal Roar at least. But since I barely ever get the chance to use them, I can't say much for the biped gifts myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by anonimas View Post
    Better brainstorm something players asked for, like in-game mail.
    Isn't this thought to be impossible to do on Istaria's engine? I searched through the forums but I could have sworn I saw it suggested somewhere but shot-down because Istaria doesn't have a way to track things like that.. or something... I could be wrong, though?
    Last edited by Racktor; March 15th, 2015 at 01:30 PM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    I don't like the 1 hour thing :)

    I am all for making the crafted scrolls last 2 hours though.

    What will happen exactly to the crafted scrolls? Will we get all these new versions in the old scroll formulas? The scrolls are the perfect way for dragons without biped friends (e.g. grumpy lunus) to have access to all the same buffs. I always thought the scrolls already directly equaled the spells (they are made from the spells).

    Boost the scrolls though, don't nerf the spells.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    With these changes I'd be perfectly happy with them all as long as the craft-boosting gifts and the changes to machine bonuses do in fact make up for what was lost in the gift changes. As Rackie said, dragons would get the short end of the stick unless the machine bonuses alone make up for the change. Or perhaps the craft-boosting gifts could be usable by both dragons and bipeds. That would also solve the problem. I would be more than happy with that.
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by Machaeon View Post
    With these changes I'd be perfectly happy with them all as long as the craft-boosting gifts and the changes to machine bonuses do in fact make up for what was lost in the gift changes. As Rackie said, dragons would get the short end of the stick unless the machine bonuses alone make up for the change. Or perhaps the craft-boosting gifts could be usable by both dragons and bipeds. That would also solve the problem. I would be more than happy with that.
    I think mach has said the same words I would have with this. So long as crafters aren't given the stick with all this, I don't mind it. But they need something equally as schnazzy in return for buffs and gifts.


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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    For crafters, a Gift that gives them an increased chance to for each harvest to give bonus resources would be wonderful.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Thank you all for your feedback. Further refinement of the idea would mean altering existing stat gifts (str, pow, foc, dex) to be:


    • (NEW) Gift of Knowledge - Bonus to Mystical Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of Artistry - Bonus to Finishing Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of the Builder - Bonus to Construction Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of the Creator - Bonus to Gathering/Processing Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of the Shaper - Bonus to Dragon Tradeskills


    And the scrolls would also be altered. These gifts would boost specific skills by +2 to +10.

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  10. #30

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by Velea View Post
    Psssttt.. Marynah... from the delta 269 patch notes.[/LIST]
    Erm, Velea, if I am not mistaken the changes to the gift system would result in approximately 10 or more extra gifts. So those 50 or so extra spells will be almost completely swollowed by 5 tiers of gifts. And I know alot of people would have all tiers scribed so that higher levels can help out those lower than them. So perhaps we'd need a second increase to 300?
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    • Gift of the Mother (was Dexterity) - Increases Arcane Skills by X%
    • Gift of the Wood (was Focus) - Increases Mystical Skills by X%
    • Gift of the Shroud (was Power) - Increases Spell Damage by X%
    • Gift of the Widower (was Strength) - Increases Physical Damage by X%

    ...

    • Ancestral Determination (was Determination) - Increases Physical Damage by X%, bonus to T&C skill, conflicts with “Gift of the Widower”
    • Drulkar’s Roar (was Primal Roar) - Increases Spell Damage by X%, bonus to Primal skill, conflicts with “Gift of the Shroud”
    Looking more closely at these, It appears for the biped spells skills, that Shroud and Wood/Mother stack. Which is fine really, applying both power and focus is how I always buff my mystic/healer bipeds. However the dragon gifts conflict with widower/shroud, so I hope a couple things will happen: (1) The Dragon gifts are more powerful than the old versions + old strength gift. This was how I buffed my dragon. (2) The dragon gifts cannot be overwritten by the biped conflicting gifts. Helpful bipeds putting poorer performing gifts, and overwriting mine, makes for an unhappy dragon, which you do not want.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post

    • (NEW) Gift of Knowledge - Bonus to Mystical Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of Artistry - Bonus to Mundane Tradeskills
    So these were the first crafting gifts you proposed. I take it these 2 being replaced by the other new ones? If so, that would mean bipeds get 8 new gifts, for a total of 40 new spells assuming they want all 5 tiers scribed. Should be covered by the 50 increase in spellbook. However, I wouldn't be against it going above 250 anyway. My ped has no t1 or t2 gifts/heals at all, and only 2 raise spells period. A bit of extra space would be nice, especially if some new epic spells are in our future (seems like vargas is a good way to add new epic spells.)

    But as far as the craft skill gifts go, instead of separating it out like the proposed 5 new versions, how about just making it 2 new gifts. 1 for all gathering/processing skills, and the other for all craft/construction skills. Just include the dragon skills in the mix, and make both spells in a primal version and an augmentation version. So that both spells are equal in effects, can be cast on anyone. In this way a biped could help a dragon out with a small craft skill boost with gifts (as it was before), or a Dragon could help out a biped. But having only 2 would keep it simplified.


    **********************
    A separate suggestion that I've made in the past, now seems like a good to re-request it:
    Make all gifts, enhances, and raise spells, include the lower tier effects if the character doesn't meet requirements.

    What I mean is this: I have a t5 gift of alacrity spell scribed. Along comes a player asking for gifts. He has level 40 adventure shool which I can see when I select him, and level 60 craft school. He can take a t4 gift, looks to me at first glance he can only take tier 3 gift. When this scenario happens, I usually just start out casting the t5 gift and see if it sticks. If not I try t4, then t3 (below that I don't have anything scribed, so he's out of luck). If the t5 spell, when cast on the target, could somehow know that t5 requirements not met, but that t4 requirements are met, and apply the t4 version of the gift automatically, it would simplify buffing others. The same process would also need to applied for the caster casting the gift. If I am 100 cleric, but now switched over to level 40 healer, I have the t5 gifts scribed, but currently only meet requirements to cast the t3. So I start buffing myself, and the t3 effect is the highest I can cast. So caster level first, target (highest level current school) second, determines the highest tier buff possible, and then applies it.

    But the BIG improvement, would be that I can delete all the lower tiers of all these gifts / enhances / raises from my spellbook, and clean up hotkey bars as well.

    Assuming one has all the gifts, enhances, raises, and might as well include the surges too:
    gifts: health, armor, alacrity, toughness, strength, power, dexterity, focus, speed. 9x5=45 spells
    enhances: health, armor, strength, power, dexterity, focus, swift feet. 7x5 = 35 spells
    raises: health, armor, strength, power, dexterity, focus. 6x5 = 30 spells
    surges: health, armor, strength, power, dexterity, focus. 6x5 = 30 spells

    So as they are currently, assuming all 5 tiers of these buffs are scribed, it's 140 slots in the spellbook.
    Making it so the higher tier versions can apply the same tier or lower tier effect when requirements not met, would bring it down to only 28 spells in our (biped) spellbooks. A savings of 112 spellbook slots!

    If dev's can figure out how to make this tech work, it could also apply to resistances and wards, maybe even HoT's like Regrowth. Serious spellbook cleanup by no longer needing lower tiers of these buffs.

    Dragons do not yet hit their spellbook cap, but this could be applied to dragon buffs as well so Promote Vitality, Promote Intellect, True Grit, Arcane Refusal, Ignore Mysticism, Countercheck Primal, primal alacrity, gift velocity. 8 spells would be 40 in book, could eliminate 32 of them.

    The only possibly sticking point I can think of (which might not be) is tech-able gifts. Making sure that the tech such as cleanse or fortify, still properly worked when filtering down and applying a lower version. If this presented a technical issue, just leave those particular gifts out of this for now. For the biped spells that's only the health gift/enhance/raise/surge, and the nature resist/wards. For the dragon i think its most of them, but if this tech only was done for bipeds where the spellbook overstuffing is a problem, it would be a huge help. Dragons are not hitting the limit.

    Thanks for considering.
    Last edited by Guaran; March 24th, 2015 at 02:26 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Increasing the spell book is probably okay as we've got more capability to increase stacks now (since the tech team did some major database enhancements).

    The tech to cast a lower tier effect from a higher tier spell does not exist. Each spell has no knowledge of the other spells in the "line". Sorry, no can do.

    I initially thought about just the two gifts for crafting, but the list of skills to buff is too large so I will need to split them up.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  13. #33

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Could the effect of the spells simply not be based on the target's level and limited by the tier of the spell?
    That way you could have the same multi-tier coverage but not worry about having to read other spells' data.

    A nice boost would be to have some buffs scale with the Augmentation skill, similar to Heals with Life skill and also cap them in the same way. It would make Augmentation more valuable than it is now, which is currently just a hard gate to a specific Tier/Class of spell.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    Maybe I am wrong- but the answers here sound more like
    "lets try to survive this" than "Huzzaah- thats what we've always wanted"
    to me.
    Why not simply give us a short break from changes and renaming
    and give us some little real new content, or a nice world project
    *Stands up and applauds* I second this. The amount of changes are coming so fast I can't keep track of them. I haven't really adjusted to what we have had changed and a break would be nice as mentioned above.

    -KOR
    Last edited by Velea; March 27th, 2015 at 06:30 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by Korchak Strongbone View Post
    *Stands up and applauds* I second this. The amount of changes are coming so fast I can't keep track of them. I haven't really adjusted to what we have had changed and a break would be nice as mentioned above.
    Ok, I don't exactly agree nor disagree with this statement. Whilst I do like these changes, I would ask that they are held off for a while to iron out all the bugs that have crept in over the last few deltas because as the game stands currently its almost broken.

    Just my two pence
    Last edited by Velea; March 27th, 2015 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Fixed ending quote so it doesn't look as though this person is both agreeing and disagreeing with themselves
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  16. #36

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    I like the idea of updating the gifts, they have been needing some work for a long time. That being said, I can foresee a host of problems and potential bugs arising from large scale changes here.

    There has been a lot of talk about crafters being affected by the loss of the stat buffs from the gifts, but what about adventurers? loss of gift stat buffs affects adventure skills as well. Yes, I know a few points loss in adventure skill makes almost no difference in combat, but it can make a difference, especially when it comes to lower level players who have not yet mastered multiple classes.

    Gifts spells are also built in to the scroll system, (i know i saw this mentioned at least once) the associated scrolls would have to be changed as well if the gifts are changed.

    That being said I have several ideas here which could achieve the suggested upgrades, and spice up gifts, without have to make massive changes to the entire system.

    1) Simply allow gifts to be techable - leave the current stat bonuses intact and create tiered techs that apply specifically to gift spells. This would allow for a wide variety of player customized gifts with relatively unique effects.
    these techs could be easily tweaked through testing, and be made to conflict with each other if layering is found to be too powerful. This would allow the stat bonus to continue to have an effect, just the tech bonus would cancel out, allowing players to simply apply spells in the order of the effect they want to have active.

    2)Enhance existing tech bonuses - Change the gifts however you like, and enhance the existing bonuses that techs give to stats and skills, a +5/tier bonus to stats and a +2/tier bonus to skills would sufficiently make up for the lost gift stats, at least for crafters - which seems to be the primary concern here. I should note here that the suggestion of increasing the skill bonuses that player made machines give would be completely insufficient here. The machines can only be used in the actual creation of items, but what about applying plot construction resources? The machine bonuses cannot help here, and without the absolute maximum stat bonuses currently possible it would be impossible to reach optimum at applying t6 resources to plots, this would result in a 50% loss in applying resources to plots.
    While i'm on stat and skill bonuses, what about boosting potion stats as well? As they are now, stat potions provide even less of a bonus than gifts do and are very nearly useless. that would easily make up for the stat loss from gifts, and may actually increase the potion trade due to a new perceived necessity. Might be a good thing here...potentially.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    I am attempting to standardize them. Anything that lasts 1-2 hours takes up a gift slot (i have no problem lengthening it to 2 hours), anything that lasts less does not take a gift slot.
    One Question:
    Whats the Reason to reduce the Timer of Caster/User only Abilities except for increased Data Transfer and used Processor Time ?
    The comtrary would make sense .... set them to unlimited Time ... Its just annoying to permanently recast them. (like the Melee Ward Safety Pulsing Spetum etc.) It makes sense for anything u can Cast on others ... but self only? With a cooldown shorter than use Time it makes no sense to Force a recast in a shorter Intervall.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Just make sure Dragons can cast all of them and I'll be happy.
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    The current system of Gift spells is boring, simple stat buffs leave nothing to the imagination. We've been brainstorming ideas for ways to introduce and alter Gifts that would make them much more interesting. Listed below are some ideas we've had for ways to change some of the existing Gifts as well as some ideas for new Gifts:


    • Gift of Resistance (was Armor) = Reduces incoming physical damage by a %
    • (NEW) Gift of Resilience = Reduces incoming elemental damage by a %
    • Gift of Vitality (was Health) = Slow pulsing HoT
    • Gift of Alacrity - Do not change
    • Gift of the Mother (was Dexterity) - Increases Arcane Skills by X%
    • Gift of the Wood (was Focus) - Increases Mystical Skills by X%
    • Gift of the Shroud (was Power) - Increases Spell Damage by X%
    • Gift of the Widower (was Strength) - Increases Physical Damage by X%
    • Speed - Do not change
    • Velocity - Do not change
    • Gift of Malice (was Toughness) - On non-standard hit, has a % chance to cause the next attack to do X% bonus damage.
    • Ancestral Determination (was Determination) - Increases Physical Damage by X%, bonus to T&C skill, conflicts with “Gift of the Widower”
    • Drulkar’s Roar (was Primal Roar) - Increases Spell Damage by X%, bonus to Primal skill, conflicts with “Gift of the Shroud”
    • (NEW) Gift of the Serpent - %Chance to resist poison on physical attack
    • (NEW) Gift of the Fates - %Chance to automatically resurrect upon death (Use causes the Gift to immediately fade and cannot be re-applied for N seconds)
    • (NEW) Gift of Benevolence - %Chance to heal those within X meters when hit by non-standard attack
    • (NEW) Gift of Knowledge - Bonus to Mystical Tradeskills
    • (NEW) Gift of Artistry - Bonus to Mundane Tradeskills


    Costs, available, etc. have not been determined as this is still in the brainstorming phase. We do recognize that this would impact crafters by removing stat buffs that they rely upon for optimal work. To counter that we'd consider increasing the skill boosts that player-built machines offer.

    As always your comments, feedback and suggestions are welcomed and encouraged. Thank you!
    These are great and interesting ideas, I think. Those worried about alterations that will affect "what is already" can easily be accounted for and there's already been talk of ways to do so.

    I don't think fear of upsetting the thick layer of dust that has settled over so much of Istaria should stop new ideas from being implemented. A lot of these Gifts are FAR more interesting than anything in game now, and bonuses to skills and such can be moved elsewhere and accommodated somehow. These would definitely make folks try out different gifts for different situations, and make them worth seeking out.

    A+ ideas.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Gifts

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    Maybe I am wrong- but the answers here sound more like
    "lets try to survive this" than "Huzzaah- thats what we`ve always wanted"
    to me.
    Why not simply give us a short break from changes and renaming
    and give us some little real new content, or a nice world project
    Nailed it. A lot of the changes, like this one, lately have been about fixing things that aren't even really broken. New content or world project instead of a couple gift changes or renamed mob would be much more interesting.

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