Suggesting concerning the requirements to wear t6 dragon items

[Alisto]

My suggestion is to change the requirements for the t6 repaired dragon scales to require - lv100 adventure school, and a lv100 craft school (either dcrys, LSH or dcraft).

I'm going to make a comparison between bipeds and dragons. Please bare with me, and keep in mind that I hope this is taken as a comparison, not a one vs. other. I merely think that the effort a biped needs to give in order to wear t6 is an appropriate amount of effort, and think dragons should be the same way.

Biped requirement: 105 rating. A lv100 school and a 70.
Dragon - Ancient (which is, 100 adventure, 30 craft).

Number wise, there is a difference of 40 between the two. Effort wise, dragons have far less that they need to do in order to reach t6 than a biped.

In wandering the /who lists over the years, I've seen a significant amount of dragons who are a lv100 ancient (I think you could go lv90 if you were -really- lazy about it, but can't confirm), and then they're got lv30 or 40 craft. It's a straight, easy journey to Ancient with minimal craft effort. At ancient however, they wouldn't be able to craft t5 scales, much less t6.

In short - I feel that requiring only ancient to wear t6 scales is too easy. At the laziest, being able to wear t6 scales doesn't require much effort at all. 100/100 would be a more accurate representation of effort expanded than just requiring ancient status. The ARoP is a very nice flavor quest, but does not accurately represent character progression. Lastly, there are some who will never ascend to ancient. Not many, but I thought I'd throw this in there.

[LOVWYRM]

sign it all, Alisto!!!!

should be ingame asap

[Sindala]

You don't need Craft skills to wear armour thou. If you want to repair the scales yourself then you need much, much more craft skill than 30

The point is you may not want to craft (I never do) but I shouldn't be forced too just to wear battle armour.
We only have 1 Adventure school too so it's not really Dragons fault

nb, you also need to be 100 days old to be an Ancient.

Edit: Make Bi-peds only able to take 1 school to 100 then have to wait 100 days before they can do another then we can talk

[Machaeon]

I'd love to see this honestly, it is ridiculously easy to get to ancient. You can solo pretty much everything for ARoP except Elial, depending on your build and gear of course. I'm not naming names, but I know there are ancients who haven't exactly earned their ancienthood: powerleveled through adventure, minimal craft, scales made for them, etc. So a requirement of ancient for using t6 scales isn't making the use of them as prestigious as one would think.

As Alisto said, there are characters who refuse to ascend to either adult or ancient for their own reasons. Some of which are just as deadly as any ancient or are essentially already an ancient, and could be with the flick of a claw. Characters like these have typically done their work well and I think deserve to be able to wear t6 so long as they meet the 100/100 requirement.

I certainly understand there are those who don't like crafting but love adventure. There are people who like craft and hate adventure too. An adventure-only character will be entirely reliant on crafters for their gear, a craft-only character will be pretty much defenseless and be reliant on adventurers to provide technique components. In my opinion, both are and should be necessary.

Another thing: I'm lazy. I don't level a school past the point of usefulness if I don't have to. All my dragon alts have a minimum of 40 craft before they take a swing at RoP. Mainly because I always attune characters beforehand, and I prefer to do the craft version of the Trandalar attunement quests. After they hit 40 craft (or whatever is necessary to get the 450 spellcraft for helian without craft scales), I see no reason to level their craft more since I have Mach to craft everything I could possibly want for a dragon. So I neglect their craft. Requiring 100 craft for the t6 scales would give me a reason, a VERY good reason to neglect my alts less.

So what I'm really trying to say is this: We dragons don't have it quite difficult enough for t6 gear. Therefore...

[Arzel Rashemi]

I agree with Alisto.

The only thing I could add is to say consider making it adv level 100 and not crafting level. If crafting level really must be added somehow, I'd say level 30 since that's what it needed for the RoP anyway.

[Tilithia]

I cant see how crafting should affect wearing armor,it just doesn't make sense to me. Although I understand the idea I think,it is very easy to get to ancient and wear those scales,and id like to see it somehow changed too. Another problem is with alts. I want to raise alts quick and wear the best gear. I don't want to go through lvling craft AGAIN just to wear those scales. No.

At the same time,I cant help but feel happy for those people with 100 days and 30 craft who get their new T6 scales,even unteched, and finally they feel stronger and don't die so often...they seem much happier.

[Alisto]

You don't need Craft skills to wear armour thou. If you want to repair the scales yourself then you need much, much more craft skill than 30

The suggestion is that you should have to have a craft skill in order to wear them.

The point is you may not want to craft (I never do) but I shouldn't be forced too just to wear battle armour.
We only have 1 Adventure school too so it's not really Dragons fault

It certainly isn't dragons fault - but, gotta work with what we have. I don't think anyone should be forced to ascend to ancient to wear the armor, either. Since we only have 1 adventure school, I suggested the requirements be extended into craft. Of course there are other options - a quest, lowering the crafting requirement, lowing the dcraft requirement and requiring you do the lairshaping quest and crystalshaping quest (or just the LSH one)...and so on. I can understand why some might dislike the suggested 100 dcraft requirement, and I do want to hear what [you] think would be better.

It took me just under 100 days to reach the ARoP quest, and even then there was a training quest I forgot to do. I have alts who are well over 100 days, but haven't even started on the ARoP.

Furthermore, the 100 days is only really a concern for those VERY well into the game, and I don't think things should be balanced around those.

Heck I'm well into the game and it takes me more than 100 days to get an alt ot anicent, although I create them well in advance. The days-in-existance requirement has never really been a problem for me.

Mind, lv100 dcraft doesn't mean one has to do all the scalecraft quests, or have a set of scales (both of which are significant in reaching optimal, or close to on the t6 set).


Aaand last edit, I swear >.>

I cant see how crafting should affect wearing armor,it just doesn't make sense to me

It doesn't make sense that you have to be a strong adventurer to wear the armor, either. I'm not going to somehow fail to place a piece of metal on my back, then strap it down and keep it there if I'm a lv1 hatchling. The game just doesn't have an 'such and such is this complex to use, you must have an int score of <x> to use it' system. The point I was trying to make that the scales are the highest tier you possibly can wear - and to me, 100/30 doesn't come close to making sense for that.

[Kaerisk]

No thanks.

What you suggest might work if we shared the rating system with bipeds. But we don't. Yet, anyway. Frankly I hate that my adult, who is an adult for RP purposes, can't equip this beautiful backscale I made for him, despite being maxed out on the adventuring side of things. While I know that is my choice, it is my choice, and I dislike it when my choice is taken away from me. I also dislike the idea of having to level the craft of all my dragons - I prefer centralized crafting, one character doing all the craft work. Which is also why my caster dragon will not be teching his drain bolt any time soon. Huzzah.

[Alisto]

No thanks.

What you suggest might work if we shared the rating system with bipeds. But we don't. Yet, anyway. Frankly I hate that my adult, who is an adult for RP purposes, can't equip this beautiful backscale I made for him, despite being maxed out on the adventuring side of things. While I know that is my choice, it is my choice, and I dislike it when my choice is taken away from me. I also dislike the idea of having to level the craft of all my dragons - I prefer centralized crafting, one character doing all the craft work. Which is also why my caster dragon will not be teching his drain bolt any time soon. Huzzah.

Perhaps you'd be willing to suggest a requirement you were okay with?

I posted this up so that it could be picked apart and discussed, a tally of yay/nay is what polls are for. I didn't add a poll for exactly that reason.

[Guaran]

I think I understand where you are coming from.

I can't say that a crafting requirement on adventure scales really makes sense, even though you made a good point about the level requirements themselves on the adventure side don't exactly make sense either.

Dragons have to be 100 days old.

Dragons have to have many many pre-requisite quests done before they can begin Arop.

I think the effort for all that is likely very much higher than a biped getting a 100 plus just 70 more adventure levels (in effort). The dragon also has to get to 100, and all the quests I feel exceeds 70 biped levels.

As far as the power leveling, same can be done for bipeds and in a matter of hours the biped could be wearing t6 gear. The dragon gear requires ancient, so there's 100 days built in. Just because some are powerleveled is no reason to punish the rest. The suggestion seems punitive.

I have to say No, for the above reasons.

[Aleron]

Actually been thinking the same thing to a point...I disagree with the option of having to lvl craft on all characters to wear these scales..and agree with the statement that not only ancients should be able to wear these scales...I like some have a dragon hatchling that is 100/100 and would like to wear these T6 scales.

Only option I came up with that seemed fair was placing an npc or something that you go to and will deem you acceptable to wear the scales or not by what quests have been completed and how long that char has been played on...tho on second thought this can be problematic aswell.

[Alisto]

Dragons have to be 100 days old.

This can just be waited out. It is a requirement, yes, but I could sit there (and have) for 100 days and meet the requirement all the same. I have ~12 dragon characters. Five of them have well over 300 days and are still hatchlings - I expanded no effort whatsoever to get them to that 100 day mark beyond just creating the character.

Dragons have to have many many pre-requisite quests done before they can begin Arop.

All of which help them level faster. The dragon breath quests are the only ones that I think don't give enough exp to be classified as such, though the breaths are somewhat useful in combat. The other quests are basically 'go grind on an appropriate level mob', which you would be doing anyway to level. The quest just gives you some extra exp (and a combat boost) for doing so. At least when I did the prereq quests for ARoP, they were extremely helpful.

As for powerleveling - I was trying to avoid that, as I think it's worth it's own thread, nor do I know quite what you're trying to say. Pardon if the following isn't quite answering the point you were trying to communicate: While powerleveling is a situation where the 100-day limit would come into play, I think it is more a boon than a limitation. I recall in many games there is the whole bit where a bunch of players rushed to the 'end-game', skipping everything in between and then complaining that there was no content. Imo, the 100 days req serves to help that problem.

I have to say No, for the above reasons.

Again - this is not a poll. I'm under no illusions that if my suggestion is heeded, that it will make it in-game as is. I'd (probably) be perfectly happy if the ancient requirement was removed and something other than a required 100 dcraft was added, or it was left with just the lv100 req.

[LOVWYRM]

The t6 scales are one large easy button
They are easy to produce
they are easy to set up (even if you have no idea how to set up a scale set- just leave them unteched- will be good enough-nuances can be disregarded)
they are easy to use (stats are so high, that scales work for all kinds of mobs)

That it came to that inflation of t6 scale sets is a home made prob: It was US who gave the scales to low level crafters .

So Solutions?
Do not hand out t6 scales so easily. Esp not to people you do not know
Or at least let them bring ALL comps.
That is what we can do

On the part of the game mechanics:
-Scales are attuned at first moment- not tradeable (but "Vault-able"^^)
- Scales require certain craft- skills (which makes more sense than it seems on first sight)

btw: Though I have 2 lvl 100 craft dragons already- I would not have mind to level up Luna`s craft.
So I still support Alisto`s original suggestion.

[Litarath]

My suggestion is to change the requirements for the t6 repaired dragon scales to require - lv100 adventure school, and a lv100 craft school (either dcrys, LSH or dcraft).

I'm going to make a comparison between bipeds and dragons. Please bare with me, and keep in mind that I hope this is taken as a comparison, not a one vs. other. I merely think that the effort a biped needs to give in order to wear t6 is an appropriate amount of effort, and think dragons should be the same way.

Biped requirement: 105 rating. A lv100 school and a 70.
Dragon - Ancient (which is, 100 adventure, 30 craft).

Number wise, there is a difference of 40 between the two. Effort wise, dragons have far less that they need to do in order to reach t6 than a biped.

In wandering the /who lists over the years, I've seen a significant amount of dragons who are a lv100 ancient (I think you could go lv90 if you were -really- lazy about it, but can't confirm), and then they're got lv30 or 40 craft. It's a straight, easy journey to Ancient with minimal craft effort. At ancient however, they wouldn't be able to craft t5 scales, much less t6.

In short - I feel that requiring only ancient to wear t6 scales is too easy. At the laziest, being able to wear t6 scales doesn't require much effort at all. 100/100 would be a more accurate representation of effort expanded than just requiring ancient status. The ARoP is a very nice flavor quest, but does not accurately represent character progression. Lastly, there are some who will never ascend to ancient. Not many, but I thought I'd throw this in there.

Back to the original post... for purpose of redirection of attention.

Okay, some people don't like the idea of having to be 100 craft and having to be ancient. Fair enough, they want to just be able to put something on with minimal effort.

Here's a suggestion then, open the scales to hatchlings, adults, and ancients, but with certain requirements for each one.

Ancient: Fine, leave as is... 90/30 is technically the bare minimum an ancient can be. In addition with certain ability quests already completed. Whatever, that'll leave those that don't want to put in so much effort for it happy.

So, we want to expand it to Adults and Hatchlings? Fantastic! GLORIOUS idea, I know I'd support that!

Make the requirements to use them as adult and hatchling a little more stringent then. If an adult or hatchling wants to wears these, they have to put in a bit more effort as they are seriously powerful scales.

Now I'm not sure if the filters can be expanded this way, but maybe they can...

Adults: 100 ADV and 90 in any craft school or a sum that equals to that split between two or three craft schools.

I mean... how hard is 45 in two craft schools to get or even 30 in three?

Not at all and certainly, more people would be willing to take two craft schools to 45 or 30 in three as opposed to 90+ in one.

Hatchling:

100 ADV and 100 Craft in any craft school or a sum that adds up to 100 in two (since... two is all they can do... because CRSTL is banned for them... *grumbles at THAT*)

These are powerful scales, if a hatchling wants to be able to use them, then they'd better be willing to put forth some serious effort for the reward.

Either way I have several 100/100 hatchlings... and I will definitely NOT ascend at least one of them even to adult, much less ancient. Some of my other dragons, I won't ascend to ancient, because either I don't like how the ancient looks... or its in their story that they don't.

[Sindala]

Dragons and Bi-peds are just different games, always have been.
You could say lower the bi-ped rating to 100 but you can only have 1 school at 100. That would even out the problem but I doubt youd get any bi-peds agreeing to this.

As has been said, there is a lot more work involved in getting a Dragon to Ancient than is required to get a Bi-ped to R105. It may be easier if its not your 1st Dragon but nether the less its still more work.
Bi-peds play the game their way and Dragons do it their way. No point in messing up another system that doesn't need looking at.

[Spyrioyo]

Dragons and Bi-peds are just different games, always have been.
You could say lower the bi-ped rating to 100 but you can only have 1 school at 100. That would even out the problem but I doubt youd get any bi-peds agreeing to this.

As has been said, there is a lot more work involved in getting a Dragon to Ancient than is required to get a Bi-ped to R105. It may be easier if its not your 1st Dragon but nether the less its still more work.
Bi-peds play the game their way and Dragons do it their way. No point in messing up another system that doesn't need looking at.

I agree with Sindala the system is fine what is. To make it requirements so your forced to do 100 craft is ridiculous. You suggestion is counterproductive. What you suggesting is like saying you in order to have armor for bipeds why don't we make it so you have to complete all crafting schools at level 100. Like Sindala said biped and dragon are two different games. Instead of making it harder for dragons, why don't you think of ways to make it so bipeds and dragons can work together instead?

[meepsa]

What you suggesting is like saying you in order to have armor for bipeds why don't we make it so you have to complete all crafting schools at level 100.

except it's not? the first thing they're suggesting is removing the ancient requirement, which I agree on as it's too easy to hit ancient already, you can hit level 100 on a dragon in a month or two, without outside help, and the quest itself is pretty much solo-able aside from the last few bits. and some people don't even want to go to ancient.

Secondly, it's nothing like you're suggesting, we aren't saying "make it equal to leveling all biped craft schools", we're saying "put as much effort into it as a R105 biped", in fact, if we were to make the effort exactly the same, crafting should only have to be leveled to 70, but that makes even less sense.

talking about sense, everybody saying "well leveling craft to wear armor doesn't make sense", growing in size (which practicly is the only thing that the "ancient" title means atm) to wear crafted armor makes less sense to me.

Instead of making it harder for dragons, why don't you think of ways to make it so bipeds and dragons can work together instead?

this comment comes over as extremely snappy, and none of us would like to see this thread closed.

[Spyrioyo]

I just think it should remain for right now but the impression I got was that they originally wanted to make it harder. But I do think some things should be reflected or changed but not in a way that is too hard or too easy, something that is balanced. I do sympathize with the other posts in this thread that don't want to be forced to do craft to get scales cause its people's preference and they shouldn't be forced, period. To the ones who want to change the requirements, maybe a specialized scale-set's for hatchlings at level 100, one for adult at 100, and priceless for ancients at 100. I think that may be a good bet that could be balancing and a possible path for those who don't want to be adult and/or ancient.

[Sindala]

Lets be honest about the levelling here for a moment.
It takes about 15 days to get a Dragon to 'waiting' to become Ancient only due to the sheer numbers of quests it has to do and new 15 day timer for Adulthood.
It takes less than a day to get a Bi-ped to R105.

New players not included but those of us oldies, lets not try to sugar coat one side shall we

[meepsa]

Lets be honest about the levelling here for a moment.
It takes about 15 days to get a Dragon to 'waiting' to become Ancient only due to the sheer numbers of quests it has to do and new 15 day timer for Adulthood.
It takes less than a day to get a Bi-ped to R105.

New players not included but those of us oldies, lets not try to sugar coat one side shall we

except I'm an oldie, I run 4 peds, and it takes me well over several weeks to even get 1 school to 100. the first one taking longer than any other ones being added.
again, without outside help, no people crafting stuff for you, no using alts to get stuff.

I included new players into my "it takes a month or 2 to get a dragon to 100" statement, I personally watched a newbie join and get a dragon to 70 in a month.