Istaria Lexica Comments

[Elteria]

Greetings Istarians,
we are proud to announce you a new website about this wonderful game.


http://www.istaria-lexica.de


Istaria Lexica (nope, it's in english, don't be scared of the '.de') offers you a wide variety of gameplay information about Istaria and alot of basic knowledge to interested and new players. Based on MediaWiki, the page is structured like other well-known wikis, say wikipedia.

- No advertisements
- Easy searchable
- Good maintained menu and page structures
- Categorized content
- Content can be commented

On project start, early may 2015, we decided to offer a community-based wiki to the world of Istaria. It shall deliver easy ways to write down details about the game for every player who is interested to participate. Even if you're not into wiki editing, you are still able to help. We wrote alot of guides especially for Istarian people to fit with our wiki stucture and to make editing fast and easy for you. We're proud to help out if you're having questions, ingame and on the webpage.

Feel free to contact us in any manner.

Our contents got their basements mainly from istaria.wikia.com, istariareference.com and parts of Virtriums game client data structure. And a certain little gnome with weird glasses, knowing almost everything! Thank you guys for doing such an awesome job over all those years! We have been very busy since may and refined the structual part of the raw data so it becomes easier editable to our newcomers. And, of course, easier to maintain in the future. Templates and/or their code were replaced almost completely. To make life easier to everyone, the new template system is documented well and contains links to guides or further needed information.

Wiki features:
- The Gifted's guide to the Istaria Lexica Wiki leads you to how you edit on the wiki
- The Wiki editor's reference card is a cheat-sheet about everything you need to know as an editor or access regularly
- All templates are easy to use and provide direct links for usage and a detailed documentation, containing live examples
- You do not need to register to help us (we'd love you to though)
- A project overview, showing what's planned or in progress on the site

What is on the wiki so far?
- Lotsa colors
- Around 10400 pages full of content, raising and raising and raising, which includes:
- Up to date list of dropped items (around 3500)
- Up to date list of technique resources
- An accurate overview of techniques
- A very nice concept art gallery
- An RSS feed to istaria.com, showing the game patch details
- and many more game related things like quests, titles, maps, locations, skills, schools, ...


Stay tuned and hope to see you ingame

Elteria

[Terao]

Being a gnome I just wanted to let you know feel welcome. Time to return being online on Order again

[Kida]

Ah yes! The wiki with all the content ripped from the Istaria Wiki! I was waiting for this to pop back up.

All your content is directly ripped from istaria.wikia.com. All the pages you've ripped off have not been attributed back to the Istaria Wiki. Every single page must link back, even Files and Templates, or else you're in violation of Wikia's policies on derivative content. I can, and will, file a DMCA Takedown request for the content that you've reuploaded without proper attribution.

You've gone and taken years of editing history done by dozens of Istaria Wiki users, stripped it all down, and reuploaded it under your own names. This is a massive disservice to the Istaria community and you should be deeply ashamed of this blatant ripoff of a wiki.

[Calyndrell]

How is this any different to the disservice you have done the community by deleting pages that elteria and terao have put in the wikia. They are making it available to everyone. The only difference is you have no direct power to delete it.

Rather than get all angst that there is a rival to the wikia you control you as a member of the community you should be happy people are willing to work and promote this game. but wait you never have anything positive to say of this game or its community. Everytime I see an article about Istaria/Horizons weather its a question being asked on steam or anywhere else 9/10 I see your name replying to it and every single time you say something negative you do it both in game and out of game and frankly I think this is only a good thing.

[Kida]

Hows this any different to the disservice you have done the community by deleting pages that elteria and terao have put in the wikia... they are making it available to everyone. the only difference is you have no direct power to delete it.

Excuse me? I haven't deleted any pages; all the content was moved to new category pages, where they were better suited for presenting the information. Making organizational changes is NOT equivalent to requesting a database dump of the Istaria Wiki and reuploading it to a new source. That's theft, plain and simple.

The Istaria Wiki is still available to everyone and open for editors to contribute. It always has been. If you can't stand pages that you make/contribute to being shifted around or deleted, because you're taking it far too personally, wiki-editing is not the right field for you.

[Calyndrell]

Excuse me? I haven't deleted any pages; all the content was moved to new category pages, where they were better suited for presenting the information. Making organizational changes is NOT equivalent to requesting a database dump of the Istaria Wiki and reuploading it to a new source. That's theft, plain and simple.

The Istaria Wiki is still available to everyone and open for editors to contribute. It always has been. If you can't stand pages that you make/contribute to being shifted around or deleted, because you're taking it far too personally, wiki-editing is not the right field for you.

I wasn't speaking for myself I was speaking on behalf of everyone else. And I am willing to bet Most of the the wikia editors (obviously not yourself) involved in the Istaria wikia won't mind it being used.

[Kida]

Rather than get all angst that there is a rival to the wikia you control you as a member of the community you should be happy people are willing to work and promote this game. but wait you never have anything positive to say of this game or its community. Everytime I see an article about Istaria/Horizons weather its a question being asked on steam or anywhere else 9/10 I see your name replying to it and every single time you say something negative you do it both in game and out of game and frankly I think this is only a good thing.

First problem: I don't control the wiki. I administrate it. I take care of vandals, do large-scale edits, and try to keep the place organized and up to date since it was abandoned in 2009 or 2010 and no one was updating it. I was working just fine with Terao and Elteria, until I started getting more involved and organizing a little more (since they went to Wikia staff and publicly complained about me not being active enough). So, God forbid, I tried to be a little more involved and what did they do? Harassed me for administrator privileges because I still "wasn't doing enough", and thought that every little thing going wrong on the wiki was my fault. I explained to them that I was still an active admin, I was being as active as I could be while attending college full-time, and that if they wanted something done that required administrator privileges, all they had to do was ask. What did I get in return? They threw a public tantrum on the wiki, stole all the content and ran off, and went to a different namespace to reupload everything. I have a limit. This has driven a damned truck through the brick wall that is my limit.

Second problem: Why should I be happy that there are now two wikis, with the same exact content, tearing apart the community and making one or the other less edited in return. This is childish, and stupid, and the Istaria Wiki is already established. It doesn't need a "rival". It need ACTIVE EDITORS, not ones that run off with all the data and steal it.

Third problem: I don't have anything positive to say about the community? Tell me, when the community doesn't thank me for my efforts, days worth of hours put into the wiki, and instead berates and tears me down because I do something they disagree with instead of talking it over civilly, what positive values am I supposed to speak of? I'll give you this, the community is apparently very good at ripping the database from the Istaria Wiki, reuploading it, and then defending the very blatant theft of content despite dozens of other community members working on the wiki in the past. I've received nothing but hatred out of this community, aside from a good few people that know who they are.

Fourth problem: Being brutally honest about the state of the game and warning people that they may not like it/that it may not be worth the price of admission is not ~always being negative~ and ~having nothing good to say~. It's being honest. I don't sugarcoat a thing, and I'm not going to sing constant praises for the game on outside sources if I think people can find more bang for their buck.

I wasn't speaking for myself I was speaking on behalf of everyone else. And I am willing to bet Most of the the wikia editors (obviously not yourself) involved in the Istaria wikia won't mind it being used.

Doesn't change Wikia policy.

[Vergial]

TIL being honest is counted as always being negative. Huh. Who'd have thunk it.

Further, if the second wiki is to exist, it is required under Wikia policies that they source every page to the original. This is theft of data, pure and simple. The intention may be "I wanna admin my own wiki" which is all well and good on its own, but they stole all of the data from the Wikia. That _REQUIRES_ attribution, period. There are no ifs, no ands, no buts about it. If the pages are not sourced, a DMCA is a very valid course of action.

To speak on my own opinion: should they source every single article they yoinked, I won't personally mind the existence of another "wiki". But if they can't follow the rules, then they'll suffer by them.

Also, this: "Third problem: I don't have anything positive to say about the community? Tell me, when the community doesn't thank me for my efforts, days worth of hours put into the wiki, and instead berates and tears me down because I do something they disagree with instead of talking it over civilly, what positive values am I supposed to speak of? I'll give you this, the community is apparently very good at ripping the database from the Istaria Wiki, reuploading it, and then defending the very blatant theft of content despite dozens of other community members working on the wiki in the past. I've received nothing but hatred out of this community, aside from a good few people that know who they are."

That sums up a lot of what I see here constantly, and is a huge reason why I tend to not bother with this...place. There are so few good souls with functioning brains that coming onto these forums regularly would be a GRAND test of my own patience and ability to handle the constant whining and bickering. The ability to talk something over civilly is a very useful skill to have, one lacked by the majority of this community.

And, as mentioned, it's a huge reason why I barely play the game, much less visit this cesspool. Good thing I have the good people on Skype.

This community largely says nothing when someone does something good, then has everything to say when someone does something they consider bad. It's depressing.

[Calyndrell]

Also, this: "Third problem: I don't have anything positive to say about the community?

I never mentioned you verg.. but as your interjecting.. yes you too I suppose.. the thing is you both comment on the games path when neither of you have anything useful and constructive to say.. And if you think so lowly of the game and finds it such a chore perhaps you should hand the wikia to someone who wants it and would treat it as the labour of love it NEEDS to be.

And I am not denying any level of skill on yours nor kidas part.. but I know for a fact your not the only two who can do it nor the only two who WOULD do it.

Ohh I also forgot the most import part of all my posts.

Great work Elt and Ter it looks great and is so user friendly too.

[Daulnay]

Fourth problem: Being brutally honest about the state of the game and warning people that they may not like it/that it may not be worth the price of admission is not ~always being negative~ and ~having nothing good to say~. It's being honest. I don't sugarcoat a thing, and I'm not going to sing constant praises for the game on outside sources if I think people can find more bang for their buck.

I've seen you and Vergial posting on Steam. "Brutally honest"? You both have opinions about the game which are quite negative, and views of the community which are quite negative. They are your opinions, based on your experience. It's not honest to portray your negative view of the game and the people in it as a fair characterization of the game rather than your personal problem.

I've had a much better experience than you have. I suspect that your 'vinegar-coating' has earned you the dislike of many in the Istaria community. You have to expect that, if you're unfairly critical of something, it's human nature. Instead, you complain about how the community reacts; "I've received nothing but hatred out of this community". No ********, Sherlock. Do what you've done in Istaria in any other community, and you'll get a similar reaction.

Avoid 'brutal honesty' in the future, wherever you are. There's a lot of value in being considerate, tactful, and diplomatic.

[Daulnay]

It looks nice, Elteria and Terao. It's good to have an advertizing-free wiki.

[Vergial]

I never mentioned you verg.. but as your interjecting.. yes you too I suppose.. the thing is you both comment on the games path when neither of you have anything useful and constructive to say.. And if you think so lowly of the game and finds it such a chore perhaps you should hand the wikia to someone who wants it and would treat it as the labour of love it NEEDS to be.

And I am not denying any level of skill on yours nor kidas part.. but I know for a fact your not the only two who can do it nor the only two who WOULD do it.

Ohh I also forgot the most import part of all my posts.

Great work Elt and Ter it looks great and is so user friendly too.

1) It doesn't have to be a labor of love. It's gathering info and depositing it.

2) Kida enjoys the game. She's also very honest about the shape it is in. We also both offer ideas and offer suggestions for improvement in varying aspects, several of which were implemented into the game already. So you're wrong.

That whole right-click menu? The auto-equipping of tools? Suggestions Kida and I made. So much for not being contructive, eh? Try not to talk out of your @$$, it does you no good.

3) I think lowly of the game thanks to people like you among the community, actually. I refuse to play because of the community around it. I refuse to pay because the community is so good at considering legitimate improvement suggestions to be nothing more than hate. Such limited minds 'round here.

4) It's as user-friendly as the wiki. Might have something to do with having the source code stolen, yea? Better get crackin' on them attributions or there might be a DMCA in the near future.

5) Fun fact of the day: due to the position ISPs are in, they are required by law to comply with any DMCA notice that has enough evidence to support it. The screenshots folder, which was stolen straight from the Wikia, is enough evidence right from the get-go. But considering the absolutely massive catalog of stolen work and assets, even if they cleaned the screenshot folder, they'd still have their site removed in mere days.

Now, it is important that I restate for the simple folk who can't grasp what I had proven earlier: I do not mind the idea of a second wiki. I wouldn't ever visit it myself, as I've always used Wikia myself, and will continue to do so. All they have to do is attribute the proper people and source the pages, and everything will be fine. It's required by the copyright that exists under Wikia. If this copyright is violated (as it currently is), the DMCA will be swift and effective, starting when the final documents are put together to send to the ISP hosting the website.

Attribute the stuff, and you two hosting the wiki will be fine. If you don't attribute, you will see your site disappear.

[Vergial]

I've seen you and Vergial posting on Steam. "Brutally honest"? You both have opinions about the game which are quite negative, and views of the community which are quite negative. They are your opinions, based on your experience. It's not honest to portray your negative view of the game and the people in it as a fair characterization of the game rather than your personal problem.

I've had a much better experience than you have. I suspect that your 'vinegar-coating' has earned you the dislike of many in the Istaria community. You have to expect that, if you're unfairly critical of something, it's human nature. Instead, you complain about how the community reacts; "I've received nothing but hatred out of this community". No ********, Sherlock. Do what you've done in Istaria in any other community, and you'll get a similar reaction.

Avoid 'brutal honesty' in the future, wherever you are. There's a lot of value in being considerate, tactful, and diplomatic.

To avoid being as much of an arse as you just were, I'll simply say that any criticism I have has always been observational and I've always offered suggestions. Your accusations of being negative is as baseless as Cal's. Oops.

EDIT: It is also worth noting that my typical advice to anyone wanting to play is to "try it and see what you think". So you're wrong in two ways. How about dem apples, yea?

[Ramaj]

To Elteria and Terao: a great big "thumbs up"!!
Thank you for giving a very nice wiki back to the Istarian comunity!

Quote from Istaria Lexica homepage:
"It is much easier to add missing information as you would think! The more helpers the wiki aquires, the better information is provided to Istaria's community.

Everyone is encouraged to provide information in any way they desire. Contacting committers, doing comments, talk to each other in the game, everything is okay and very welcome. Everyone is free to edit pages without any bad manipulation afterwards. Wikies are free for everyone and everyone shall be free to do edits without fear of harm or 'having done something wrong'. Editing in a wiki means adding what you know. If it's wrong that shall be no problem. There will be someone correcting it without any rant. That's the way a wiki lives. That's the way a community lives. "


Í whole-heartedly second every word you say in this (quoted ) statement!


A wiki that as been taken over by one person, who has had themself proclaimed as sole administrator, who has one-handedly re-arranged and re-catagorized the entire wiki in a way he/she finds it should be done, in effect "banning" all others who were doing a great job with their contributions to "our" wiki, who has many times (in my view!) been rather rude toward fellow Istarians on this forum (and still is), has thus taken this Istaria Wiki away from the player community it is/was meant for.
At least, this is how I feel about it. Could say more, but will leave it at this.


Ramaj

[Daulnay]

Further, if the second wiki is to exist, it is required under Wikia policies that they source every page to the original. This is theft of data, pure and simple. The intention may be "I wanna admin my own wiki" which is all well and good on its own, but they stole all of the data from the Wikia. That _REQUIRES_ attribution, period. There are no ifs, no ands, no buts about it. If the pages are not sourced, a DMCA is a very valid course of action.

If something's under copyright, then it's owned. Data can't be covered under copyright, only the form of presentation can be. The facts are free, as they have to be under any reasonable system. If Elteria and Terao lifted blocks of copyrighted text from the wiki, then there's a problem, if they took factual information and presented it in another form, they're fine. Calling them thieves doesn't make it so (and that you did is just another data point explaining why you're disliked by some in the Istaria community). It's (imo) intemperate and looking for a fight.

[Vergial]

If something's under copyright, then it's owned. Data can't be covered under copyright, only the form of presentation can be. The facts are free, as they have to be under any reasonable system. If Elteria and Terao lifted blocks of copyrighted text from the wiki, then there's a problem, if they took factual information and presented it in another form, they're fine. Calling them thieves doesn't make it so (and that you did is just another data point explaining why you're disliked by some in the Istaria community). It's (imo) intemperate and looking for a fight.

You'd do well to look up the DMCA act, as well as the copyright laws covered in said act. Further, the Wikia staff have confirmed that a DMCA notice can be filed should the information end up elsewhere, so you're wrong on two fronts again. You're on a roll~

EDIT: Nono, I read your post a bit wrong. I need to clarify: the info they took is very much copypaste from the Wikia. The screenshots and other such things are as well, which contributes to the problem.

It's for those reasons that I tell them they need to attribute. Once that's done, they're safe.

I'm leaving my original post for posterity, cuz I did a dumb.

[Daulnay]

To avoid being as much of an arse as you just were, I'll simply say that any criticism I have has always been observational and I've always offered suggestions. Your accusations of being negative is as baseless as Cal's.

From Steam:
" The game has barely changed, honestly."
- Untrue as a fact, very arguable as an opinion
"Just important that you know their grind game has increased substantially."
-Also untrue (less grindy, imo) , and directly contradicts the other statement.

You say two negative and contradictory things. I would guess Cal's statements are just as baseless as mine.

[meepsa]

It looks nice, Elteria and Terao. It's good to have an advertizing-free wiki.

seconding this, I really like the look of it as well as the content, especially the concept art, haven't seen most of that before ^^

[Daulnay]

As a matter of law, facts cannot be copyrighted, only the organization and presentation of them. A collection of facts isn't either, unless there's some creativity in the presentation or organization. That's what the DCMA covers.

What's your basis for saying otherwise? My basis is 1)reading law journals, 2) discussing this stuff with a lawyer.

Yes, you can issue a DCMA takedown if someone copies the presentation/format. But not for taking the information.

[Vergial]

From Steam:
" The game has barely changed, honestly."
- Untrue as a fact, very arguable as an opinion
"Just important that you know their grind game has increased substantially."
-Also untrue (less grindy, imo) , and directly contradicts the other statement.

You say two negative and contradictory things. I would guess Cal's statements are just as baseless as mine.

It doesn't contradict, however. The game barely changed; this does not suggest zero change. This suggests little change. As of right now, there have been some really grand strides made with the poor engine (and the sorry excuse for code they have to work with, seriously, I feel SO BAD for the Devs right now).

Further, the grind has factually increased. This is proven by the quest rewards, as an example, having their values slashed down to a third from their original points (comparing to when I initially started playing some years ago). Less experience gain = more grind. That's fact, and unavoidable fact at that.

I do want to thank you for taking some time to actually provide points, wrong though they were. It's a step closer to talking civilly, which is something this community needs VERY sorely.

If you have more to consider, though, PM me? My net won't be up much longer, and I can reply to you with ease later on.