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Thread: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

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    Default Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I been looking at day requirements of Ancient Right of Passages since Right of Passage has been reduced to 15 days.
    I propose some changes to lower the day requirement. There is one problem some people take advantage of ARoP current requirements so we have to make some things stricter. My reasoning is that the days should be reduced but some new requirements should be added cause people don't bother with hoard or take advantage of craft. Since there is no craft level requirement due to the limited current ARoP requirement there are some people who take advantage and are tempted to not play the game properly and not do the hard work. Last, I am willing to negotiate on days and hoard requirement but crafting level is set cause that's why some people do exploits in the game.

    My proposal is:

    Requirements :
    • Level 100 Adventure
    • Level 100 Craft (You need tier 5 stuff anyway)
    • All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    • All Breath Quests Completed but Breath of Acid
    • Khuhit Quest Completed
    • Lasting Embers Quest Completed
    • 75 Days Old
    • 15.5 Million Hoard Required

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    but crafting level is set cause that's why some people do exploits in the game.
    I'm wondering what kind of exploit you're talking about, if it's game breaking, I'm sure the devs can find a way around it, if it's a bug, it can be fixed by reporting it.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by meepsa View Post
    I'm wondering what kind of exploit you're talking about, if it's game breaking, I'm sure the devs can find a way around it, if it's a bug, it can be fixed by reporting it.
    Mainly people have exploited the perch leveling in the past cause of it. But the devs recently got rid of that. I'm sure there are others not known.
    Last edited by Spyrioyo; March 10th, 2016 at 04:48 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    I been looking at day requirements of Ancient Right of Passages since Right of Passage has been reduced to 15 days.
    I propose some changes to lower the day requirement. There is one problem some people take advantage of ARoP current requirements so we have to make some things stricter. My reasoning is that the days should be reduced but some new requirements should be added cause people don't bother with hoard or take advantage of craft. Since there is no craft level requirement due to the limited current ARoP requirement there are some people who take advantage and are tempted to not play the game properly and not do the hard work. Last, I am willing to negotiate on days and hoard requirement but crafting level is set cause that's why some people do exploits in the game.

    My proposal is:

    Requirements :
    • Level 100 Adventure
    • Level 100 Craft (You need tier 5 stuff anyway)
    • All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    • All Breath Quests Completed but Breath of Acid
    • Khuhit Quest Completed
    • Lasting Embers Quest Completed
    • 75 Days Old
    • 15.5 Million Hoard Required
    OK.. My opinion of this is as follows.

    Adv level 100 sure.. Makes sense.
    Craft level 100 nope.. I am not alone in that I absolutely hate dragon craft..
    All the main adv Quests completed again sure... These atleast take a reasonable length of time.
    Breath Quests.. I'd personally say you should only need one or the other originally we only got one depending on weather we were lungs or Helian.
    Khutit... No not really I don't think this should be a must have.
    Last Embers.. I don't even remember if I did this quest myself... Is it key to dragons? Sorry memory is foggy but in fairness if I did do it it was probably nearly a decade.ago.
    75 days old... Sure why not... What about a restriction of a minimum of say 10 days in game too?? Too harsh??
    Hoard... Irrelevant it's so easy to get these days
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I'm going to reduce some of the requirements based on feedback.

    Craft level 100 nope.. I am not alone in that I absolutely hate dragon craft..
    As an ancient you need to be able to hold your own weight and not have others do every crafting thing for you because you hate crafting. You can easily get some of the tier 5 stuff needed in ARoP threw other people making it for you. Just cause you hate crafting isn't really a good excuse to not have a crafting requirement. I have seen some of the problems in game are caused because there isn't a crafting requirement on ARoP. You need to learn to play the game. Besides Helian dragons already have to go up to about 50 craft level before they can finish their RoP. There was a craft requirement on RoP so it would make sense there should be a craft requirement for ARoP. In addition Bipeds have 19 crafting schools meanwhile Dragons have about 3 crafting schools. It may take more time but it's reasonable.

    New Requirements :
    •Level 100 Adventure
    •Level 100 Craft
    •All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    •75 Days Old
    •15.5 Million Hoard Required
    Last edited by Spyrioyo; March 10th, 2016 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    As an ancient you need to be able to hold your own weight and not have others do every crafting thing for you because you hate crafting.
    except...this is an MMORPG, people can choose whether they want to level purely craft or purely adv, and the game is geared towards it too, I don't think making ancient an elitist thing (ie. only the best of the best can be it) is that much of a good idea. heck, look at bipeds, people play purely adv or purely craft on those all the time.

    Now yes you could bring in the point of ancienthood being the penultimate status for a dragon, but is it? really? tbh the abilities you get from doing the Guardians (which you can get without ascending to ancient) are propably the biggest strongpoint ARoP has going for it as for why people should do it. And heck, if you level craft (or DCRA, which is what I'm guessing at you're suggesting) you're still missing out on the buffing crystals from DCRS, which again, add a whole lot of versatility to dragons.

    though I do agree atleast some crafting requirement is needed, Level 80 seems like more of a reasonable number, you can pretty much make anything you'd need at that point, with the right scales/buildings.

    I wouldn't bring this up normally, but perhaps another "state" of dragons could be added? not one that makes you even bigger (lord knows our butts take up enough space already), but perhaps one that adds a permanent visual effect, like an extra sort of marking that we can choose (shape and colour) once we attain said status (I've seen a REALLY pretty project from a friend that would fit the bill perfectly), and said status can only be attained if you've got:
    • 100 DRAG
    • 100 DCRA and DCRS
    • Ancient
    • All Dragon Adventure Quests (Including Drulkar's Wrath, Khutit, and any others that might apply)
    • [X] Amount of hoard
    • some other preregs, I think these ones would be too copy-paste of previous ones like RoP and ARoP, some more unique ones could really up the ante. perhaps we could get a counter for number of epics (greater and lesser combined or as seperate counters) and you'd need to have killed a total of [X] to be able to start.
    The main reason I wouldn't normally bring this up is because dragons are already strong enough, and with the idea of adding another state people might get the wrong idea that I'd rather see dragons stronger than they currently are (which I don't, at all)

    Which is the main reason why this state wouldn't give any stats or anything beneficial, it would just purely be a lore related quest with some bits of everything here and there, some crafting, some fighting, etc. and the reward would just be the visual effect. This way people that don't like the visual effects could opt out of doing the quest without losing anything power wise.

    It would be a way of visually showing "yes, I did ALL of that", and have it be something unique rather than...just another title or something.

    just a tiny idea that suddenly popped in my head while I was thinking this over.
    Last edited by meepsa; March 10th, 2016 at 10:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by meepsa View Post
    though I do agree atleast some crafting requirement is needed, Level 80 seems like more of a reasonable number, you can pretty much make anything you'd need at that point, with the right scales/buildings.
    Meepsa here makes a good point. I made a change to the level of crafting requirement is needed but I can see that 100 is too high. Having 100 Adventure and 80 Craft will make similar too RoP with the 30 level and 20 level craft requirement.


    New Requirements :
    •Level 100 Dragon Adventure
    •Level 80 Dragon Craft
    •All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    •75 Days Old
    •15.5 Million Hoard Required

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    Meepsa here makes a good point. I made a change to the level of crafting requirement is needed but I can see that 100 is too high. Having 100 Adventure and 80 Craft will make similar too RoP with the 30 level and 20 level craft requirement.


    New Requirements :
    •Level 100 Dragon Adventure
    •Level 80 Dragon Craft
    •All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    •75 Days Old
    •15.5 Million Hoard Required
    Sorry for bump but forgot to mention
    •All V Dragon Crafting Quests

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I respectfully disagree with any crafting requirement.

    The ARoP, if I'm remembering right, needs very little in terms of crafting. What it does need are extremely basic, with the most complicated being a T5 spell which you can buy off of a connie or ask a friend to make. (Or in my case, craft on an alt) Otherwise, you need an obsidian (or marble?) spellshard, some raw T6 gems, some essence orbs (t4? do you even need ess orbs?). The bunch of T5 scales you needed to present to Hethsa has been taken out, so those aren't an issue anymore. Asking for 80 or 100 craft would just be a frustrating barrier to overcome for very little reason.

    Now, compare this to the RoP. You need level 20 crafting minimum (imo it should be 30 since you can't do crap at 20 unless you're lvl 80 with t5 scales). This is because you need to craft items. The obsidian mirror, the adult statue, the phylactory's holder, the prism of some sort (helian), et cetera - the crafting minimum is there so you don't start the quest and go "Ah crap, now I need to level more because I need these skills."

    That's why the crafting minimum exists on the RoP and not the ARoP. If, say, you needed to craft the spell that Hethsa asks you to to find her mate and it needed a min skill of 600 Spellcrafting, then we'd have a lvl 60 crafting requirement. As it stands, you do not need any crafting school to progress in the ARoP and that is why there is none. Minimums exist as a list of things you need to complete the quest, not as a barrier for how prepared you might be to solo it. Requirements are for what you require. Everything can be acquired elsewhere. After all, this is an MMORPG, not just an RPG - working together is generally required and not just encouraged.

    The drawbacks to not having your crafting to 100 or 80 would be the frustration of having to ask other players to craft trivial things for you over and over again.

    Otherwise, I don't have much of an issue with what's suggested here, I guess. I've never seen an issue with the 100 day requirement - it's 3 1/3 months, that's generally the time it takes me to level my characters to 100/40 on a normal schedule (which includes going through all ability quests). Hoard is just a matter of grinding t6 undead, which is just a boredom factor rather than a 'youre a tough adult who is going to be ancient' requirement.

    In the end, I just don't see a need to change the requirements at all.
    Last edited by Racktor; March 10th, 2016 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    I respectfully disagree with any crafting requirement.

    The ARoP, if I'm remembering right, needs very little in terms of crafting. What it does need are extremely basic, with the most complicated being a T5 spell which you can buy off of a connie or ask a friend to make. (Or in my case, craft on an alt) Otherwise, you need an obsidian (or marble?) spellshard, some raw T6 gems, some essence orbs (t4? do you even need ess orbs?). The bunch of T5 scales you needed to present to Hethsa has been taken out, so those aren't an issue anymore. Asking for 80 or 100 craft would just be a frustrating barrier to overcome for very little reason.

    Now, compare this to the RoP. You need level 20 crafting minimum (imo it should be 30 since you can't do crap at 20 unless you're lvl 80 with t5 scales). This is because you need to craft items. The obsidian mirror, the adult statue, the phylactory's holder, the prism of some sort (helian), et cetera - the crafting minimum is there so you don't start the quest and go "Ah crap, now I need to level more because I need these skills."

    That's why the crafting minimum exists on the RoP and not the ARoP. If, say, you needed to craft the spell that Hethsa asks you to to find her mate and it needed a min skill of 600 Spellcrafting, then we'd have a lvl 60 crafting requirement. As it stands, you do not need any crafting school to progress in the ARoP and that is why there is none. Minimums exist as a list of things you need to complete the quest, not as a barrier for how prepared you might be to solo it. Everything can be acquired elsewhere. After all, this is an MMORPG, not just an RPG - working together is generally required and not just encouraged.

    The drawbacks to not having your crafting to 100 or 80 would be the frustration of having to ask other players to craft trivial things for you over and over again.

    Otherwise, I don't have much of an issue with what's suggested here, I guess. I've never seen an issue with the 100 day requirement - it's 3 1/3 months, that's generally the time it takes me to level my characters to 100/40 on a normal schedule. Hoard is just a matter of grinding t6 undead, which is just a boredom factor rather than a 'youre a tough adult who is going to be ancient' requirement.

    In the end, I just don't see a need to change the requirements at all.
    That's your opinion and I respect it, but needs to be some ease. But also change is needed for an online game to evolve.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    As I mentioned to you in Skype, I don't mind change. What I do mind is change that is unnecessary and doesn't contribute to the game itself. Adding a crafting requirement isn't going to help Istaria evolve, it's just going to make a bunch of annoyed players who have to level crafting for no reason beyond making something tougher to get. (And in my opinion, crafting isn't hard, it's just monotonous and takes a long time.)

    I stand by requirements listing only what you require to complete a quest.

    Also, what do you mean by 'ease'?

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    As I mentioned to you in Skype, I don't mind change. What I do mind is change that is unnecessary and doesn't contribute to the game itself. Adding a crafting requirement isn't going to help Istaria evolve, it's just going to make a bunch of annoyed players who have to level crafting for no reason beyond making something tougher to get. (And in my opinion, crafting isn't hard, it's just monotonous and takes a long time.)

    I stand by requirements listing only what you require to complete a quest.

    Also, what do you mean by 'ease'?
    You do have a point Racktor. What I mean by ease I mean reduce the days to better make the wait between Ancient and Adult more proportionatal. Before it was 70 day after wait after RoP when RoP was 30 days. Now it's 85 day wait after RoP since the change of RoP to 15 days. The new 75 day makes it a 60 day wait after 15 days.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I'm not sure the point of the original post... Have the requirements for AROP changed recently? Last I knew, the requirements were 100 days old, most adventure quests for dragons completed (left out the breath quests I believe), no craft requirements.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    I'm not sure the point of the original post... Have the requirements for AROP changed recently? Last I knew, the requirements were 100 days old, most adventure quests for dragons completed (left out the breath quests I believe), no craft requirements.
    The point is to reduce the days cause right now since RoP changed to 15 there is 85 day wait after RoP right now compared to the 70 day wait when it was 30 days. It's also to include, hoard requirement to encourage the push to the max hoard bonus. The craft requirement is there to motive and prepare for lairshaping and crystalshaping schools. They are both there so there aren't that many ancients that run around that don't know how to do things. I also heard stuff like people just get to Ancient and quit the game, too. It's concerning and troubling.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    You need to learn to play the game.
    Woah you did not just go there! OK, learn to play the game yeah.. I am not the one wanting to waste devs time to fix something that's NOT BROKEN. I know how to play the game I just don't like crafting. my dragon has been hunting epics since before your egg was laid. My biped can single handedly build any structure in game... I JUST DONT like dragon crafting.
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Calyndrell View Post
    Woah you did not just go there! OK, learn to play the game yeah.. I am not the one wanting to waste devs time to fix something that's NOT BROKEN. I know how to play the game I just don't like crafting. my dragon has been hunting epics since before your egg was laid. My biped can single handedly build any structure in game... I JUST DONT like dragon crafting.
    Ok I understand I am willing to make a compromise about the craft level or remove it. I just need some good reasons. Not just that you don't like dragon crafting. This doesn't apply to you Calyndrell or anyone that doesn't like dragon crafting, this applies to other people in the game that don't work hard, that don't take precious time hunting epics. The ones that applies are that just get to Ancient and ditch the game or not willing to put in effort.
    Last edited by Spyrioyo; March 10th, 2016 at 03:32 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    Ok I understand I am willing to make a compromise about the craft level or remove it. I just need some good reasons. Not just that you don't like dragon crafting.
    Ok since you are going there? I've been watching this thread and I don't think ARoP needs to be changed at all. If going off of your list of requirements then a dragon would be at least 100 days old anyway by the point they get to that, (especially since the perch leveling issue has now been dealt with), get the tech'd scales, and the group together to do the Rift Run. So, no reason for that requirement to be changed at all.

    You are going to have to give me some really good reasons as to what is wrong with the current ARoP and why it needs to be changed for me to agree with any part of your OP.


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  18. #18

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by meepsa View Post
    except...this is an MMORPG, people can choose whether they want to level purely craft or purely adv, and the game is geared towards it too, I don't think making ancient an elitist thing (ie. only the best of the best can be it) is that much of a good idea. heck, look at bipeds, people play purely adv or purely craft on those all the time.

    Now yes you could bring in the point of ancienthood being the penultimate status for a dragon, but is it? really? tbh the abilities you get from doing the Guardians (which you can get without ascending to ancient) are propably the biggest strongpoint ARoP has going for it as for why people should do it. And heck, if you level craft (or DCRA, which is what I'm guessing at you're suggesting) you're still missing out on the buffing crystals from DCRS, which again, add a whole lot of versatility to dragons.

    though I do agree atleast some crafting requirement is needed, Level 80 seems like more of a reasonable number, you can pretty much make anything you'd need at that point, with the right scales/buildings.

    I wouldn't bring this up normally, but perhaps another "state" of dragons could be added? not one that makes you even bigger (lord knows our butts take up enough space already), but perhaps one that adds a permanent visual effect, like an extra sort of marking that we can choose (shape and colour) once we attain said status (I've seen a REALLY pretty project from a friend that would fit the bill perfectly), and said status can only be attained if you've got:


    The main reason I wouldn't normally bring this up is because dragons are already strong enough, and with the idea of adding another state people might get the wrong idea that I'd rather see dragons stronger than they currently are (which I don't, at all)

    Which is the main reason why this state wouldn't give any stats or anything beneficial, it would just purely be a lore related quest with some bits of everything here and there, some crafting, some fighting, etc. and the reward would just be the visual effect. This way people that don't like the visual effects could opt out of doing the quest without losing anything power wise.

    It would be a way of visually showing "yes, I did ALL of that", and have it be something unique rather than...just another title or something.

    just a tiny idea that suddenly popped in my head while I was thinking this over.
    I really like what meeps stated and suggests here. That is why I quoted it all. Its worth to be read twice.
    And I could imagine that Zyrim would change his mind in the direction: Let ARoP be like it its,
    but reward those, who did all that (2-3 craft schoold to 100 and all quests there are or similar)
    Reward does not mean, we get abilities or epic spells that make us triple-uber,
    but maybe a ring for our ear-finn-or a third eye made of diamond (or a a special dragon-mask which looks a bit like that-with three slots like the loyalty ones// Or a shoulder buddy who does not need a slot and shows this dragon is a master of all classes- or something similar). Lovwyrm and LovsKin would wear that with pride- Luna would have to decide if she is willing to learn more schools.

    So my vote for meeps`suggestion and thy to Zyrim who started that brainstorming:-)
    Last edited by LOVWYRM; March 10th, 2016 at 04:28 PM.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    I really like what meeps suggests here. That is why I quoted it all. Its worth to be read twice.
    And I could imagine that Zyrim would change his mind in the direction: Let ARoP be like it its,
    but reward those, who did all that (described in meepsa`s post above)
    Reward does not mean, we get abilities or epic spells that make us triple-uber,
    but maybe a ring for our ear-finn-or a third eye made of diamond (or a a special dragon-mask which looks a bit like that-with three slots like the loyalty ones// Or a shoulder buddy who does not need a slot and shows this dragon is a master of all classes- or something similar). Lovwyrm and LovsKin would wear that with pride- Luna would have to decide if she is willing to learn more schools.

    So my vote for meeps`suggestion and thy to Zyrim who started that brainstorming:-)
    I'm glad people like the idea I'm actually slowly working out what can and might be done with this whole thing, and I'll definitely try to get at least a basic idea onto the forums for brainstorming on a later date.

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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by meepsa View Post
    I'm glad people like the idea I'm actually slowly working out what can and might be done with this whole thing, and I'll definitely try to get at least a basic idea onto the forums for brainstorming on a later date.
    I actually like your idea, meepsa. The main point is so that being an ancient is worth something because right now ARoP is too easy and a lot of people have lost respect for Ancients.

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