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Thread: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    [...] this applies to other people in the game that don't work hard, that don't take precious time hunting epics. The ones that applies are that just get to Ancient and ditch the game or not willing to put in effort.
    People who get to ancient and ditch will still ditch even with your suggestions, though. The ditching isn't because ancient is too easy, it's because they rush to endgame and then go "Oh, well, that's it" and leave without doing anything else. Their main goal is just to get as big butt'ed as possible. If they wanted to stick around, they would join crystalshaper or lairshaper and level those, or do all the endgame epic quests, or make alts.

    Adding more and more requirements to the ARoP will only drive ancient-and-ditch people out after they get some more levels in craft/get more hoard or before they even hit ancient because they just don't want to grind any longer.

    The issue with those people isn't the quest requirements, it's the attitude of the players themselves.

    Anyway, on the current topic, I do like the idea of an "Ascended" stage of some sort. I remember Amon talking about "Ancient Primalist" and "Ancient Brawler" or something like that (as schools, though). You need 100/100, all dragon quests, X hoard, etc. It wouldn't be a life stage, but a sort of like a title you can 'flaunt' to show you've mastered the world. Depending on what you choose, perhaps you get a spell or an ability in reward, or just something cosmetic.

    (And with brawler and primalist, I'm only referring to Amon's old messages for context - there are more ways to build a dragon than just caster vs melee)

    Tl;dr: Leave ancient requirements as is, suggestions to add a final 'title' stage for completionists is an interesting idea

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    [...]The main point is so that being an ancient is worth something because right now ARoP is too easy and a lot of people have lost respect for Ancients.
    I have and always have had a lot more respect for lvl 100 hatchlings than ancients. It's harder being a hatchling and killing everything the game asks you to compared to an adult or ancient.

    Being ancient shouldn't be what demands someone respect. There's a lot more factors going into being a good player than just having a large scaled rump filling your screen on log-in.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I've leveled one Dragon to 100/100 (haven't really touched crystalshapping... haven't really played in quite a while either). On my second dragon, I've barely touched crafting (used other toons to store mats and level new drac that way). I think I took it to 50, so I can do those lvl 50 scale quests before RoP.

    If Crafting were to be made a requirement for Ancient, that would kill any enthusiasm I would have for leveling a dragon again. I despise all forms of crafting in this game, sorry devs, it's boring as hell to me. This of course, is NOT a valid reason to avoid introducing craft as a requirement for ARoP, I'm just sharing my opinion in case it sheds some light on my suggestion.

    IF there were a push to introduce crafting as a req for ARoP, I would support it, even if being level 100 crafting, but ONLY IF there were some serious crafting rewards for doing so. For example, passive plus 100 to ALL crafting/gathering skills.

    Alternatively, why not try think outside the box and design an ARoP purely for crafting?

    I don't know the specific circumstances, if any, for which the OP posted this, but introducing crafting as requirement will not likely address their concerns of "learning to play the game properly". It would only serve to add a further barrier, and a very boring and tedious one at that.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    People who get to ancient and ditch will still ditch even with your suggestions, though. The ditching isn't because ancient is too easy, it's because they rush to endgame and then go "Oh, well, that's it" and leave without doing anything else. Their main goal is just to get as big butt'ed as possible. If they wanted to stick around, they would join crystalshaper or lairshaper and level those, or do all the endgame epic quests, or make alts.

    Adding more and more requirements to the ARoP will only drive ancient-and-ditch people out after they get some more levels in craft/get more hoard or before they even hit ancient because they just don't want to grind any longer.

    The issue with those people isn't the quest requirements, it's the attitude of the players themselves.

    Anyway, on the current topic, I do like the idea of an "Ascended" stage of some sort. I remember Amon talking about "Ancient Primalist" and "Ancient Brawler" or something like that (as schools, though). You need 100/100, all dragon quests, X hoard, etc. It wouldn't be a life stage, but a sort of like a title you can 'flaunt' to show you've mastered the world. Depending on what you choose, perhaps you get a spell or an ability in reward, or just something cosmetic.

    (And with brawler and primalist, I'm only referring to Amon's old messages for context - there are more ways to build a dragon than just caster vs melee)

    Tl;dr: Leave ancient requirements as is, suggestions to add a final 'title' stage for completionists is an interesting idea

    Edit:

    I have and always have had a lot more respect for lvl 100 hatchlings than ancients. It's harder being a hatchling and killing everything the game asks you to compared to an adult or ancient.

    Being ancient shouldn't be what demands someone respect. There's a lot more factors going into being a good player than just having a large scaled rump filling your screen on log-in.
    You are right Racktor, it's not about being ancient that demand respect, it's about being a good player, doing the hard work to earn that ancient or even 100 hatchling and not take the easy option out. There are a lot of factors that is true. It leads back to my statement a lot people don't respect Ancients cause many don't do the hard work and take an easy way out.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    I really like what meeps stated and suggests here. That is why I quoted it all. Its worth to be read twice.
    And I could imagine that Zyrim would change his mind in the direction: Let ARoP be like it its,
    but reward those, who did all that (2-3 craft schoold to 100 and all quests there are or similar)
    Reward does not mean, we get abilities or epic spells that make us triple-uber,
    but maybe a ring for our ear-finn-or a third eye made of diamond (or a a special dragon-mask which looks a bit like that-with three slots like the loyalty ones// Or a shoulder buddy who does not need a slot and shows this dragon is a master of all classes- or something similar). Lovwyrm and LovsKin would wear that with pride- Luna would have to decide if she is willing to learn more schools.

    So my vote for meeps`suggestion and thy to Zyrim who started that brainstorming:-)
    I'd like to support meepsa's idea. Why not fill the old emblem slot that is still in game and stays empty with one or several new item(s) ?
    It would either add a new title to the one that is already used as an ability (ex: "Master SuHuz Fieryclaw the Myloc Slayer") or add a visual effect instead (and optionally: a little stat boost).
    A new vendor would be created and would sell these items in exchange of a new token obtained through a single quest if we have to make a choice, or through a repeatable quest if we have the possibility to buy several of these items.
    SuHuz Fieryclaw, Grand Master Dragon Crafter (Order)

  5. #25

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Offtopic,sorry ^^...

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  6. #26

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by SuHuz View Post
    I'd like to support meepsa's idea. Why not fill the old emblem slot that is still in game and stays empty with one or several new item(s) ?
    It would either add a new title to the one that is already used as an ability (ex: "Master SuHuz Fieryclaw the Myloc Slayer") or add a visual effect instead (and optionally: a little stat boost).
    A new vendor would be created and would sell these items in exchange of a new token obtained through a single quest if we have to make a choice, or through a repeatable quest if we have the possibility to buy several of these items.
    I actually have a google doc where I'm working this idea a bit further out, it would actually be comparable to RoP and ARoP in length, just not in reward, it would truly be an end-game quest for the completionists out there.

    I'd really rather stay away from -just- making it a title, there's plenty out there already, though the idea of combining does sound rather interesting....I'll have to think that bit over.

    The main thing I want to do is perhaps add another sort of marking (perhaps a sort of fading one? from the legs up or something) and add a shader to that so it can glow or pulsate. you know, something to really make you stand out from the crowd....untill the crowd also does the quest :P

  7. #27

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    ...Adding more and more requirements to the ARoP will only drive ancient-and-ditch people out after they get some more levels in craft/get more hoard or before they even hit ancient because they just don't want to grind any longer.

    The issue with those people isn't the quest requirements, it's the attitude of the players themselves....
    This is my thoughts as well. I don't think the requirements need changed.

    Having some extra little thing for doing all the crafts to 100 as well would be fine though. Perhaps a new title that requires all three, that has both crafting buff plus a combat buff. Or maybe a small particle effect that's always visible on the paws or something.

    Things like that I think are good suggestions, to give a bit of extra incentive to complete the crafting schools.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    I been looking at day requirements of Ancient Right of Passages since Right of Passage has been reduced to 15 days.
    I propose some changes to lower the day requirement. There is one problem some people take advantage of ARoP current requirements so we have to make some things stricter. My reasoning is that the days should be reduced but some new requirements should be added cause people don't bother with hoard or take advantage of craft. Since there is no craft level requirement due to the limited current ARoP requirement there are some people who take advantage and are tempted to not play the game properly and not do the hard work. Last, I am willing to negotiate on days and hoard requirement but crafting level is set cause that's why some people do exploits in the game.

    My proposal is:

    Requirements :
    • Level 100 Adventure
    • Level 100 Craft (You need tier 5 stuff anyway)
    • All IX Dragon Adventure Quests (VII for Gold Rage) Completed, Except for Drain Bolt Quests
    • All Breath Quests Completed but Breath of Acid
    • Khuhit Quest Completed
    • Lasting Embers Quest Completed
    • 75 Days Old
    • 15.5 Million Hoard Required
    i enjoy the 100 days old it makes you the subscriber feel you need to be loyal to the game to earn what you have earned. also wouldent it be better to just make it harder but be more rewarding too? like when you become an ancient you get better like 2k health points and such? make things harder but get better rewards from the hard work.. Im in on making it harder but shortening the days? No.
    When the time to eat a knight is to Roast them till there ready as COOKED spam...
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by meepsa View Post
    except...this is an MMORPG, people can choose whether they want to level purely craft or purely adv, and the game is geared towards it too, I don't think making ancient an elitist thing (ie. only the best of the best can be it) is that much of a good idea. heck, look at bipeds, people play purely adv or purely craft on those all the time.

    Now yes you could bring in the point of ancienthood being the penultimate status for a dragon, but is it? really? tbh the abilities you get from doing the Guardians (which you can get without ascending to ancient) are propably the biggest strongpoint ARoP has going for it as for why people should do it. And heck, if you level craft (or DCRA, which is what I'm guessing at you're suggesting) you're still missing out on the buffing crystals from DCRS, which again, add a whole lot of versatility to dragons.

    though I do agree atleast some crafting requirement is needed, Level 80 seems like more of a reasonable number, you can pretty much make anything you'd need at that point, with the right scales/buildings.

    I wouldn't bring this up normally, but perhaps another "state" of dragons could be added? not one that makes you even bigger (lord knows our butts take up enough space already), but perhaps one that adds a permanent visual effect, like an extra sort of marking that we can choose (shape and colour) once we attain said status (I've seen a REALLY pretty project from a friend that would fit the bill perfectly), and said status can only be attained if you've got:


    The main reason I wouldn't normally bring this up is because dragons are already strong enough, and with the idea of adding another state people might get the wrong idea that I'd rather see dragons stronger than they currently are (which I don't, at all)

    Which is the main reason why this state wouldn't give any stats or anything beneficial, it would just purely be a lore related quest with some bits of everything here and there, some crafting, some fighting, etc. and the reward would just be the visual effect. This way people that don't like the visual effects could opt out of doing the quest without losing anything power wise.

    It would be a way of visually showing "yes, I did ALL of that", and have it be something unique rather than...just another title or something.

    just a tiny idea that suddenly popped in my head while I was thinking this over.
    100% Agreed!!! A new state would be perfect. But it would have to be very difficult, like you'd pretty much have to do everything possible to "complete" your dragon. And a long epic questline. Gives me a motivation to finish my poor Aekaitz! Perhaps something like :Legendary" status or something. With some stat boosts and abilities and such, but mostly visual to really show your accomplishment to the game. Dragon's Prophet gives players who have reached endgame with all of the pieces of armor and such a gold glow. I think something like this would be so cool!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekaitz View Post
    100% Agreed!!! A new state would be perfect. But it would have to be very difficult, like you'd pretty much have to do everything possible to "complete" your dragon. And a long epic questline. Gives me a motivation to finish my poor Aekaitz! Perhaps something like :Legendary" status or something. With some stat boosts and abilities and such, but mostly visual to really show your accomplishment to the game. Dragon's Prophet gives players who have reached endgame with all of the pieces of armor and such a gold glow. I think something like this would be so cool!
    I've asked around and because of how the textures work on a dragon this could be a pain to implement (or atleast what I have planned), but far from impossible still not entirely sure whether I want to give it stat boosts, but maybe an ability or two could work, heck, perhaps something like the Boom! spell, entirely useless but still pretty.

    currently I have it set to be a relatively lenghty quest, with bits of everything involved; exploration, fighting, crafting, etc. and if possible I'd love to incorporate a sort of shade or "image" of Drulkar, not Drulkar himself, in person, but atleast a representation, and possibly the spirits of Helian and Lunus too (do we -know- what happened to Lunus anyway? I know Helian is in Helian's Tomb now, but don't think I've ever read anything about how Lunus ended up)

  11. #31

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    I agree with most except that hoard requirement is a bit high. perhaps 10mill? seeing just about every ability uses hoard, and not many farm hoard, and just give it away, many new players might find it difficult to collect that much, and keep it while doing all the ability quests.
    either that or have to refrain from using all the following abilities:
    Ravage, Gailwind, refreshing breeze (which is a much when fighting certain mobs), Shield of Gold, Silver strike, and Gold Rage.

    my adult on Chaos is running into that problem. she can`t seem to keep more then about 6mil hoard since the mobs she`s fighting, I have to use those abilities often. so perhaps 10 million would be more reachable in such cases.

    As for crafting, 80 is a descent goal. At least then, you`re in T5, and with scales/crystals, and machines are able to make most items. may I add in another requirement?
    Drakul attunement quest completed. Seeing Lunus especialy, needs to kill the golem on there, can`t get to Drakul unless you`re attuned anyways. Khutit quest isn`t really something all that important, and some don`t even do it (RP reasons) so I don`t think that should be a requirement.

    just a few thoughts

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing_Duck View Post
    I agree with most except that hoard requirement is a bit high. perhaps 10mill? seeing just about every ability uses hoard, and not many farm hoard, and just give it away, many new players might find it difficult to collect that much, and keep it while doing all the ability quests.
    either that or have to refrain from using all the following abilities:
    Ravage, Gailwind, refreshing breeze (which is a much when fighting certain mobs), Shield of Gold, Silver strike, and Gold Rage.

    my adult on Chaos is running into that problem. she can`t seem to keep more then about 6mil hoard since the mobs she`s fighting, I have to use those abilities often. so perhaps 10 million would be more reachable in such cases.

    As for crafting, 80 is a descent goal. At least then, you`re in T5, and with scales/crystals, and machines are able to make most items. may I add in another requirement?
    Drakul attunement quest completed. Seeing Lunus especialy, needs to kill the golem on there, can`t get to Drakul unless you`re attuned anyways. Khutit quest isn`t really something all that important, and some don`t even do it (RP reasons) so I don`t think that should be a requirement.

    just a few thoughts
    Kir'ignat Pad is another place to attune and it's available at level 1. But I will come up with some requirements change and make sure it meets up with Meepsa's idea, but I will reduce Hoard amount, I may decide to up day limit from 75 it to 90 that is exactly 3 months, the reason is I am thinking of a day limit for meepsa's idea.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    Kir'ignat Pad is another place to attune and it's available at level 1. But I will come up with some requirements change and make sure it meets up with Meepsa's idea, but I will reduce Hoard amount, I may decide to up day limit from 75 it to 90 that is exactly 3 months, the reason is I am thinking of a day limit for meepsa's idea.
    you don't seem to get it.. the ARoP doesn't need changing and thats what the majority of people are saying..

    and erm Arch I dunno how to say this but... 2k more health?? no just No dragons are already gonna get an extra 400 health in the new blight patch so please.. do everyone a favour and Go back to sleep
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    But I will come up with some requirements change and make sure it meets up with Meepsa's idea, but I will reduce Hoard amount, I may decide to up day limit from 75 it to 90 that is exactly 3 months, the reason is I am thinking of a day limit for meepsa's idea.
    Most on this thread are saying to you that the ARoP does not need changing, and you have yet to give some really good reasons why it needs to change at all. So why are you working on all of this, which is going to be a waste of time, when you will not take the time to give us some really good reasons where ARoP is broken and why it needs to change? You've been asking us all who do not want it to change to give you some good reasons why the ARoP requirements and ARoP should stay as it is, so I see no problem in asking the same back of you.

    If you are as flexible as you say you are on your opinions and ideas, then why are you not listening to the majority who are saying the ARoP does not need its requirements changed and that a better idea is to just make a sort of 'completionist' achievement?
    Last edited by Arzel Rashemi; March 12th, 2016 at 04:46 PM. Reason: grammar


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  15. #35

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    and make sure it meets up with Meepsa's idea.
    Don't worry about matching it up with my idea, the way I have it set now it will require well over a few months of hard work anyway. (in total, not the actual quest haha.)

    still trying to get the basic idea down, but I should be able to link a public google doc version of it soon-ish.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    The current ARop requirements are this:

    ◦Be an Adult Dragon of at least 100 days old
    ◦level 100 Dragon Adventurer
    ◦Have completed the Tooth and Claw Mastery IX quest
    ◦Have completed Primal Master IX quest
    ◦Have completed the Accurate Breath IX quest

    The point is ARoP is very easy right now.
    Last edited by Spyrioyo; March 12th, 2016 at 09:05 PM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    The point is ARoP is very easy right now.
    Why and where is it too easy? Could you explain or extrapolate please? There can't be a discourse of ideas based around it simply 'being too easy'


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  18. #38

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    The current ARop requirements are this:

    ◦Be an Adult Dragon of at least 100 days old
    ◦level 100 Dragon Adventurer
    ◦Have completed the Tooth and Claw Mastery IX quest
    ◦Have completed Primal Master IX quest
    ◦Have completed the Accurate Breath IX quest

    The point is ARoP is very easy right now.
    If you think its too easy rather than just add very arbitrary requirements what you should be looking at is content, introduce content ideas and steps, preferably including lore and storyline to what you think should be included. Now personally i think they should make it so the elial at the Peak of storms doesn't work.. and all rift bosses recieve some kind of steroidal injection.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Calyndrell View Post
    If you think its too easy rather than just add very arbitrary requirements what you should be looking at is content, introduce content ideas and steps, preferably including lore and storyline to what you think should be included. Now personally i think they should make it so the elial at the Peak of storms doesn't work.. and all rift bosses recieve some kind of steroidal injection.
    I agree ARoP needs improved the entire quest line. Also Elial at Peak of Storms doesn't work no more. ARoP has nice lore about Lich King that's no were else.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Ancient Right of Passage Requirments Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ZyrimShadowheart View Post
    . Also Elial at Peak of Storms doesn't work no more.
    Nope. That elial does not work anymore. The only Elial that should be used for ARoP should be in the rift. Bipeds should not be able to help out with a dragon only questline. Certainly considering the lore around it and the dragons in general. RoP and ARoP are something very personal to dragons and by lore, they don't particularly like bipeds sniffing around in their affairs nor are they very open about it with non-dragons. (mind you this is from the game lore only)

    I'll agree that I miss the lore from the old RoP and ARoP. Everything now is pretty much in the same places so it feels like you don't need to do much to get to it and get it done. It makes both questlines seem very short and not as grand as they should be.

    Despite this, I am still not in favor of changing any requirements to the ARoP. Add lore to the RoP/ARoP questlines and spread out the mobs again so players have to do some travel and exploration. I'll agree to that, but not the requirement changes.


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