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Thread: Full group exp back?

  1. #1

    Default Full group exp back?

    Can we have full group exp back?

    Currently, when grouped up and fighting with someone, we recieve half the exp as we would have than fighting alone (even despite the exp bonus).

    This has made my time in istaria, as a person who wants to raise a biped with someone elses ped, very annoying. I don't want to level with another person because I want as much exp as possible, but it is also difficult for me to level up alone...i don't want to group up because i do not want double the already huge grind.

    I understand that orignally, this was a measure taken to reduce powerleveling, but now restricting exp gains to terrian only is here, i do not think halving exp is needed anymore.

    Sure, we don't pl much now, but we also don't group up to level (in general, such as a lv40 teaming up with a lv41) as much too and i think the latter is much worse - considering how grindy and slow it makes group leveling has discouraged me and others to raise characters together, and discouraging grouping is really not something we need in a community-reliant game. Even with full group exp again...you can't powerlevel someone who dies constantly on terrain, so i don't think that will be an issue.
    Last edited by Azath; March 27th, 2016 at 04:19 PM. Reason: fixed typos/added clarifications

  2. #2

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    "Meeasure taken to reduce plvling". Great. I would know much easyer solutions to reduce that. 3 players have been filming day and night around the fyakky grounds to catch plvlers, they report the hatchies standing on the ledge and done. Sadly alot people were plvling around that time. In blight you get banned if a GM catches you plvling. Well i would remove the ledge or just place a agressive mob around there wich attacks with range. Bam! Hatchie/Naka gone. In my hatchie times i lvled up together with a old friend. And that ONLY in group. Imagine this today... We`d take the double time to reach lvl 100 O_o.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azath View Post
    Can we have full group exp back?

    Currently, when grouped up and fighting with someone, we recieve half the exp as we would have than fighting alone (even despite the exp bonus).

    This has made my time in istaria, as a person who wants to raise a biped with someone elses ped, very annoying. I don't want to level with another person because I want as much exp as possible, but it is also difficult for me to level up alone...i don't want to group up because i do not want double the already huge grind.

    I understand that orignally, this was a measure taken to reduce powerleveling, but now restricting exp gains to terrian only is here, i do not think halving exp is needed anymore.

    Sure, we don't pl much now, but we also don't group up to level (in general, such as a lv40 teaming up with a lv41) as much too and i think the latter is much worse - considering how grindy and slow it makes group leveling has discouraged me and others to raise characters together, and discouraging grouping is really not something we need in a community-reliant game. Even with full group exp again...you can't powerlevel someone who dies constantly on terrain, so i don't think that will be an issue.
    I honestly think it's enough to make sure there no exp is gained on perches. Lake Azath said this is a community game we need to encourage more grouping not discourage it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Hmmm i just had a idear. It should be possible to programm it that way so you only get xp when you actually hit the target in a group fight. Wouldn`t be too hard i hope and it would prevent plvling at all. Might be that they already thought bout that and it`s not possible idk :/. Would be an idear though.

    "If being of fire means blind arrogance and the elevation of violence above reason, then let me be of water!"

  5. #5

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pryzm View Post
    Hmmm i just had a idear. It should be possible to programm it that way so you only get xp when you actually hit the target in a group fight. Wouldn`t be too hard i hope and it would prevent plvling at all. Might be that they already thought bout that and it`s not possible idk :/. Would be an idear though.
    There's a few issues with that - as such healers, does it count a hit even if they miss, and one-hit-KOs ruining it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    And fair people lvling their biped with dragons help on doom maggots/mylocs etc.


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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilithia View Post
    And fair people lvling their biped with dragons help on doom maggots/mylocs etc.
    Yes, we definitely don't need to make the grind on multiclassed peds any worse than it already is. My rating 150+ ped's already forced to tackle large groups of mylocs in Doom or something of a similar difficulty to get any significant xp gain anymore... and an endless trophy grind is a much less appealing alternative at this point. If I want to raise up another school without gathering thousands upon thousands of trophies, I've got to drag him down to Doom and rely on group xp while that class I'm leveling up is still on the low side.

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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    To those talking about perch leveling in the ED and such - that was already patched. That was also the biggest case of powerleveling. In my opinion, there's no reason to kill group EXP so much as a powerleveling reduction if the biggest source of it was already taken out on its own.

    Istaria is an MMO. You shouldn't be able to be rocketed up if you fight with a lvl 100 as a lvl 50, of course, but you should be encouraged to group together and play with someone, not punished for it. Yes you may kill things twice as fast with 2 level 50s, meaning you'd get the same EXP as fighting alone if split evenly, but as far as I can tell, it's not split evenly at all. It's simply not efficient to level with someone anymore and in a game with a lot of grind as is, that's not exactly the best path to go down.

    Sorry if I sound rude or blunt here, but my best memories in this game were leveling alongside friends. It's among the reasons that I stayed in this game rather than dropped it, bored. Encouraging players play alone is one of the quicker ways to bore people of Istaria and I don't want to see that happen.

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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    To those talking about perch leveling in the ED and such - that was already patched. That was also the biggest case of powerleveling. In my opinion, there's no reason to kill group EXP so much as a powerleveling reduction if the biggest source of it was already taken out on its own.

    Istaria is an MMO. You shouldn't be able to be rocketed up if you fight with a lvl 100 as a lvl 50, of course, but you should be encouraged to group together and play with someone, not punished for it. Yes you may kill things twice as fast with 2 level 50s, meaning you'd get the same EXP as fighting alone if split evenly, but as far as I can tell, it's not split evenly at all. It's simply not efficient to level with someone anymore and in a game with a lot of grind as is, that's not exactly the best path to go down.

    Sorry if I sound rude or blunt here, but my best memories in this game were leveling alongside friends. It's among the reasons that I stayed in this game rather than dropped it, bored. Encouraging players play alone is one of the quicker ways to bore people of Istaria and I don't want to see that happen.
    I agree encouraging people to work alone is not the way to keep people. The perch leveling was the biggest case of power leveling.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    pls devs change that asap. It makes no sense and its big annoyance

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azath View Post
    Can we have full group exp back?

    Currently, when grouped up and fighting with someone, we recieve half the exp as we would have than fighting alone (even despite the exp bonus).

    This has made my time in istaria, as a person who wants to raise a biped with someone elses ped, very annoying. I don't want to level with another person because I want as much exp as possible, but it is also difficult for me to level up alone...i don't want to group up because i do not want double the already huge grind.

    I understand that orignally, this was a measure taken to reduce powerleveling, but now restricting exp gains to terrian only is here, i do not think halving exp is needed anymore.

    Sure, we don't pl much now, but we also don't group up to level (in general, such as a lv40 teaming up with a lv41) as much too and i think the latter is much worse - considering how grindy and slow it makes group leveling has discouraged me and others to raise characters together, and discouraging grouping is really not something we need in a community-reliant game. Even with full group exp again...you can't powerlevel someone who dies constantly on terrain, so i don't think that will be an issue.
    Id rather keep the group gaining exp the same to encurage grouping. you got games that ask you to pay real money to gain extra exp in istaria you just have to ask a friend of group of friends to hang out with you to be rewarded lets not forget this stacks with more monsters. So stop being lazy ask your friends to play with you Soloing is the biggest kill switch in a game..
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pryzm View Post
    3 players have been filming day and night around the fyakky grounds to catch plvlers, they report the hatchies standing on the ledge and done.
    Sounds like pure jealousy to me. It's not like we are on a pvp-server where the strongest rule the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pryzm View Post
    Sadly alot people were plvling around that time.
    Well, 10 years ago, people were considered "powerleveling" by groupkilling huge mobspawns. So, nowadays we do not have any huge mobspawns of this kind anymore. HZ has been reduced to a grinding festival.

    And btw, you do not gain any xp anymore, if you are in a "safe spot" - like sitting on a tree or on a wall. Does this improve HZ-gameplay in any way? Nope. This doesn't fix any bugs nor does it improve gameplay. But it took up developer-ressources to get it programmed, time that could have been used to fix real bugs or other issues.

    I'm glad that my Dwarf has already his important adv schools at 100, because right now, leveling is an impertinence. And thats no matter whether I look at any of the remaining schools of my multi-lvl100-Dwarf or at one of my other lowlevel -no-lvl100-chars. The current xp-gaining system is more likely to keep players away then keeping them ingame

    Oh, and group xp? well, at least on order hardly anything to talk about, because - which groups?
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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchDemon View Post
    Id rather keep the group gaining exp the same to encurage grouping. you got games that ask you to pay real money to gain extra exp in istaria you just have to ask a friend of group of friends to hang out with you to be rewarded lets not forget this stacks with more monsters. So stop being lazy ask your friends to play with you Soloing is the biggest kill switch in a game..
    As best I understand it, grouping is currently discouraged due to exp gains while grouping, and it's better to do it solo. So keeping them the same would not, as you say in your first sentence, encourage grouping.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvergar View Post
    Sounds like pure jealousy to me. It's not like we are on a pvp-server where the strongest rule the world.


    Well, 10 years ago, people were considered "powerleveling" by groupkilling huge mobspawns. So, nowadays we do not have any huge mobspawns of this kind anymore. HZ has been reduced to a grinding festival.

    And btw, you do not gain any xp anymore, if you are in a "safe spot" - like sitting on a tree or on a wall. Does this improve HZ-gameplay in any way? Nope. This doesn't fix any bugs nor does it improve gameplay. But it took up developer-ressources to get it programmed, time that could have been used to fix real bugs or other issues.

    I'm glad that my Dwarf has already his important adv schools at 100, because right now, leveling is an impertinence. And thats no matter whether I look at any of the remaining schools of my multi-lvl100-Dwarf or at one of my other lowlevel -no-lvl100-chars. The current xp-gaining system is more likely to keep players away then keeping them ingame

    Oh, and group xp? well, at least on order hardly anything to talk about, because - which groups?
    So fixing an exploit, aka power leveling, is not important? I think fixing exploits is very important.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Power lvling seems a great problem for you. I`m not a fan either but peeps need to know if they want it or not its their thing. I wouldn`t want it. But see it the other way. I want to start a healer soon and a hatchie will help me on that path. We planned going the way together up to lvl 100 as a group. Well now i can throw that plan into trash can.

    "If being of fire means blind arrogance and the elevation of violence above reason, then let me be of water!"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    I will play Devils' Advocate for a bit.

    When I leveled my bipeds, the fastest way up just past 200 rating to level, was to group up and pull groups of mobs. Be them t5 mobs on satyr islands, t6 flies in ED, t6 blights in ED. The WHOLE GROUP helped. There was no afk players, or they wound up dead. Perched players caused the mobs to run away as well as fully heal up. So we power leveled in a sense, since this went really fast, even with the EXP we were getting per kill was a lot less than a solo kill of the same mob. Easily it was less than half the EXP, and I could dig thru old logs and likely find some exp examples to compare to now.

    If whatever changes that have recently been made, make it so that an afk player doesn't get much exp, I am completely fine with that. They should also need to be in range of the mob as well to get anything. Something in a recent patch notes about players out of range the mob not getting exp. Why should they? They aren't contributing one bit, not are they in any danger.

    When we leveled in these dangerous places, we all stood together, stacked up, so that no matter who the mobs aggro'd, all mobs would be in range of all players at all times. All players contributed by either casting bombs, stuns, mezzes, or heals on the group. Even with reduced exp, overall it went faster.

    It seems like all that is being complained about in this thread is a player grouped with one other lowbie alt, seeing reduced exp on the alt. Why not try grouping up with more than just 1 other toon, and go do some big pulls in ED of the t6 blights? Its a challenge, it's fun, it's a group of friends, or players who will become friends. It shouldn't be a walk in the park. And anyone AFK shouldn't get any exp, at all.

    Now if the exp for players all standing together, in danger, has had a massive change, then I will ask if someone can quantify the change as well as justify it. but perched players shouldn't get jack, nor should out of range players.

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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvergar View Post
    Sounds like pure jealousy to me. It's not like we are on a pvp-server where the strongest rule the world.


    Well, 10 years ago, people were considered "powerleveling" by groupkilling huge mobspawns. So, nowadays we do not have any huge mobspawns of this kind anymore. HZ has been reduced to a grinding festival.

    And btw, you do not gain any xp anymore, if you are in a "safe spot" - like sitting on a tree or on a wall. Does this improve HZ-gameplay in any way? Nope. This doesn't fix any bugs nor does it improve gameplay. But it took up developer-ressources to get it programmed, time that could have been used to fix real bugs or other issues.

    I'm glad that my Dwarf has already his important adv schools at 100, because right now, leveling is an impertinence. And thats no matter whether I look at any of the remaining schools of my multi-lvl100-Dwarf or at one of my other lowlevel -no-lvl100-chars. The current xp-gaining system is more likely to keep players away then keeping them ingame

    Oh, and group xp? well, at least on order hardly anything to talk about, because - which groups?
    there are people who play in groups though, a lot of them. the fact that you don't get invited or don't see them yourself doesn't null their existence. eitherway its about group exp not pleveling, and with the current thing going on its tedious to be nice and social while your exp is being leeched
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvergar View Post
    Oh, and group xp? well, at least on order hardly anything to talk about, because - which groups?
    No offense intended, but you speak only for yourself.

    If this gets fixed, I will be leveling with others. I can name off the top of my head 6 others who want to/do group to level. On order, of course, not to mention those more rarely on, and those on chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by DraaGul View Post
    So fixing an exploit, aka power leveling, is not important? I think fixing exploits is very important.
    Not that it's gone there yet, and i'm only quoting you for convenience and not targetting you so i deeply apologise if it comes off that way >.>;; but yall gotta try and keep this thread on track. We're not discussing taking away powerleveling, we're discussing getting our group exp back. Though intertwined, it's beginning to shift onto the line between on topic and off topic...beginning to.


    Apologise for a post so....dull and not constructive at all, but i've said all i've had to say on the matter. I want to be able to have fun raising my biped with my best friends biped but it is not fun when our exp is sapped massively ^^

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    I will play Devils' Advocate for a bit.
    [Long informational post I snipped for the sake of length]
    You make a very good point here, which I tried to touch on in my post - multiple people in a group does make killing go by much faster, making up for the loss of EXP. Killing 20 mobs in 20 seconds with only half the exp between 2 players will equal the same amount as killing 10 mobs in 20 seconds alone.

    The issue stated here is that this changed recently, as far as we can tell - these contributing players fighting together are getting less EXP than beforehand. Overall the EXP from fighting mobs in groups has dropped a noticeable amount in recent updates. I haven't done math to figure out if the drop has made it completely useless to fight in groups or not, but it's definitely a change.

    For example, you can fight 20 mobs in 20 seconds with 2 players. However, instead of half and half, you're getting 1/3 of the EXP each. I don't know if the drop is that much, but you get the point. For 50% of the time you are getting 33% of the EXP. It no longer scales proportionately. You would possibly be better off fighting alone and get 100% of the exp for 200% of the time. This, of course, isn't taking into account fight mobs much higher than your level - the teamwork will make it possible to get more exp than alone. If you have a group of, say, a dragon and a biped, however, and the dragon is doing its on-level quests, you're fighting things you can take alone. The exp then isn't worth it with your friend.

    I'm going to state right now that I haven't been able to test how much the drop is yet. I haven't fought alongside any other people since recent updates as I've been mostly working on my T6 scales and going solo on my alt. My thoughts are coming from the experiences I've heard from various players, including my friends who are attempting to level together these days, but are getting frustrated from the drop.

    If I can get clearer numbers, I will, but for now I'd like to ask anyone else around who has time to compare solo vs grouped with an on-level partner against a singular on-level mob? It'd put things into perspective and see if we're honestly overreacting (which is entirely possible) or justifiably frustrated.

    EDIT: Azath is right with keeping things on track, by the way. Yes, this nerf to group EXP was to fight against powerleveling to the best of my knowledge. However, with the implemented fix of perch leveling, we are asking for it to be set back. The thread isn't meant to circle around powerleveling and whether or not group exp is considered PL'ing. (And if you want my personal opinion, if you are on the ground and fighting something you can hit, you aren't powerleveling.)

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    Default Re: Full group exp back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    It seems like all that is being complained about in this thread is a player grouped with one other lowbie alt, seeing reduced exp on the alt.

    Now if the exp for players all standing together, in danger, has had a massive change, then I will ask if someone can quantify the change as well as justify it. but perched players shouldn't get jack, nor should out of range players.
    What you suggest people do to level is how I've been working up my biped. I take my two characters down to Doom and pull large groups of mylocs to get xp quicker than using trophies. The cut in group xp hurts that too but it's not as bad as it could be.

    The main complaint here is NOT perched players or high-level players powerleveling low-level players. Perchleveling got its fix, that's not the discussion here. The biggest complaint is that with people who are leveling up their FIRST class, they have their xp halved at a minimum when they group with people within 5 levels of them and are all actively fighting things for their level range. This effectively discourages grouping... why would you fight anything with friends when that severely hurts your xp gain? Sure you kill things quicker and you can handle more difficult mobs. But with leveling your first school, you're not going to be heading after things significantly above your level range and the xp gained from hunting higher level mobs is overshadowed by the xp loss from grouping.

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