Fallen plaque dragon/warrior

[LOVWYRM]

there is one thing that annoys me to my bones:

Look at those (plaque dragons/warriors): How skilled they are
Look what they cast on you before you had your first attack:
Esp. paralyzing glance/distracted
it makes the grind for shards a pain.......
and we need lots of shards nowadays.
I mean- they cant kill-or harm me much-
but I feel its nothing but occupational therapy.
And it takes away precious ingame time- and its no fun.
It might be ok that Reklar is that strong now-(we haven`t managed to get him down yet)
but his adds are much too "strong"

And in general: Equal rights for all- give all dragons paralizing glance- blighted /fallen or not^^

No seriously- Istarians- what do you think?

[Guaran]

I haven't farmed them since they got bumped to 11k hp. Even before you had to do a fair amount of cleansing to stay effective when fighting. It's probably more drawn out and annoying now.

Those are adult dragons, 11k hp. If they bump Adult players to 11k hp, Ancient players to 15k hp, I'm fine with leaving them as is.

[Azath]

It's probably more drawn out and annoying now.

This is it.

Their tactics haven't changed one bit, just now they no longer go down in 2-3 hits from a dragon perhaps the debuffs and attacks they use are more noticable.

To me, they're easier now. Longer fight, but easier, because the plague warriors no longer parry 99% of melee attacks (i assume to atone for their high hp) ^^

[Mythral]

For what it's worth, from the perspective of a newly 100 Dragon, these guys are dangerous, for me. I just made 100 adventure, and my primal mastery quest sent me to kill these guys. While wearing tier 4 scales and two tier 5 scales teched mostly for melee (and most of my training points in evasion, with the rest evenly split between primal and tooth & claw), the fallen plague-warriors did indeed still parry an enormous amount of my physical attacks; I couldn't give you an exact percentage of course, but it was quite high. So much so I made sure to just use spells/gold rage on them.

As for the dragons, they were quite deadly to me. The warriors were just long and slow, but the dragons, while a quicker and more lively fight, were quite dangerous to me.

As to them being different from living dragons (the health, the abilities, etc), is that so odd? I mean, these are beasts that are no longer flesh and blood (perhaps resulting in more durability, read: health), who were raised from the dead with unknown necromantic arts. It's conceivable this might result in all sorts of weird changes.

I just thought I would provide a different perspective on this. I donno exactly how these guys should be balanced, or how tedious it would be to farm them constantly, but as a newly 100 adult dragon, without otherwise ideal gear at the moment, that was my take-away from fighting them for my primal mastery quest.

[Azath]

...While wearing tier 4 scales and two tier 5 scales teched mostly for melee...

To be fair they are teir 6 undead, I think it's fair, personally, that a fully teched t5 set of equipment should be the minimum to tackle them with.

That being said, i have found the most difficult thing with my dps dragon to be if they happen to gang up you, and mainly it's the dragons which give difficulty.
With things like tailwhip, gold rage -> cripple and their myriad of aegis debuffs you have to really be at the top of your game to handle a group of them solo.

The difference from before being that they have enough health to significantly damage and debuff you before they die.

But y'know, that isn't an issue.
That's tactics. That's being careful with the primal/multicasted AoEs and stuns (or in a dragons case snarl). That's pulling to a ledge and taking them 1-2 at a time, and maybe even getting help!


...With all that said, though, I also am very close to the top of my game. And if so many people are struggling, that's a problem with me being elite, and something shouldn't be based on "well three elite people in the playerbase were fine with it".

[AmonGwareth]

To play devil's advocate here, these are the henchmen of an EPIC boss. Its not supposed to be an easy or solo'able fight. Its EPIC. Not meh.

[LOVWYRM]

I agree to all you`ve said Az
but esp. to that:

...With all that said, though, I also am very close to the top of my game. And if so many people are struggling, that's a problem with me being elite, and something shouldn't be based on "well three elite people in the playerbase were fine with it".

[LOVWYRM]

To play devil's advocate here, these are the henchmen of an EPIC boss. Its not supposed to be an easy or solo'able fight. Its EPIC. Not meh.

no Amon, Sir- no no no*Rumpelstilsken*^^
Folks- take a close look at the debuffs they cast on you- long before they are in reach for a first strike.
Even if they are attacked with bolts- they are always first. Even if you land upon them (as a dragon).
I can`t agree that this is balanced or justifiable Henchmen or not.
I do not care about their health or strenghth- I have no probs to survive (endgameplayer, tactics).
But pls: Who can hit that hard- and has so much debuffs of a special kind to cast upon enemies???
Pls take away some of their spells- they still will have enough.
I simply do not have the time to waste on hunting for that shards. And I do not want to!
Pleeeaase think that over,-)

[Drakarius Shadows]

I would not mind at all to have paralizing glance as an "Ancient ability"
Also a little extra health would surely help some.

I remember trying to pull them one at a time to take them out and a lot of death points finding the right combos to take one.
Also had full set of T5 scales teched just for that fight and several ped buffs to help out.

[AmonGwareth]

Dragons already got a health boost in the Niesa's Fate update (increased from 20 to 24 points per level).

Paralyzing Gaze and other abilities of this sort are monster abilities and won't be made available to players. Sorry.

I'll take a look at the health of the Fallen. I don't think it will go back to what it was before (that was too low imho), but I'm happy to take an objective look at it.

[Mythral]

So I'm trying to understand where the issue really falls here. If I could kill these guys (one at a time) as a level 100 adult dragon, with tier 4 scales, and only two tier 5 scales, with what I felt was a reasonable fear (entirely relative, I admit) of being killed in turn by them, then a more appropriately geared dragon adult or ancient must be able to do this without that fear of death being nearly so prevalent.

Is it just that, when having to farm them for shards, the large health pool is slow to eat through, making them a tedious hassle? I can't see these guys being particularly unfair when it comes to their difficulty. Let me qualify that statement by saying my experience with them, as explained, is only one on one. I don't know how horrible they might be when adding on to the Reklar fight. I know nothing really about the Reklar fight itself, to boot.

I just...don't think that, based on these guys alone, we need new abilities or increased health or something like that. Perhaps we do for other reasons, not discussed here, but just based on using these guys as a standard? I don't mean to in any way be trivializing anyone's concerns regarding these particular mobs. I would like to understand those concerns better in fact, which is why I'm still posting questions here.

Perhaps, if it's shard-farming related, there would be some sort of middle ground available? Some lower health mob with less loot that can be farmed for shards more easily, or something like that? I know that constitutes a lot more development work of course; I only put it out there as an example of addressing this in another way if it's really just a shard issue.

As to the Reklar fight itself, maybe the issue is with Reklar. If I'm not mistaken he was relatively recently buffed? Maybe a slight reduction in that buff would be appropriate. Again, provided that the issue with these fallen mobs is the rate at which they add on during the Reklar fight.

[LOVWYRM]

I think I should answer here, cause I brought up the issue.
Why? I am the caster since I can think. And cause its always a prob to get a Reklar group together (time zone,population of Order,
time all have for epic hunts), I used to grind the majority of shards as a service for my group.
That was not an issue, I could do that in apropriate time.
Meanwhile, we cant go with less than 60 shards. Better some more-for the second caster in group.
The debuffs AND the increased health make it a boring job nowadays.And I can take *coughs* more than one at a time.
I was only kidding when I said I want the paralyzing glaze for drags- so was Guaran, saying he wants more health. As Amon said- it was just raised for drags.
Grinding for shards now takes away playing time- in my eyes- and -well- it brings some little prpbe like its always the same players who give me shards- others just join the hunt- and on Order you are glad about any additional claw for that fight.
We still haven`t managed to get Reklar down- and the debuffs from the adds been a reason for that too.
And they respawn? They did not before the patch- not sure about that..

I do not need anything from Reklar anymore- same with Flame and Lup.
We hunt just for fun- or help others to get the great Reklar things.
But atm its no fun anymore...
I hope I answered your questions, Mythral.

I talked to Azath ingame-and well- seems I am the only one who is annoyed- so I herewith cancel my complaint^^:-)


Oh Amon- did not see. THANKS :-))))))

[Alisto]

In my opinion, the primary time-sink for a boss fight should be the actual boss fight, not acquiring some pre-requisite item from slow-to-die mobs that are needed in order to actually do the boss fight (and you have to do that every time. I've nothing against the Myloc Queen quest, mind, as that's different). Furthermore, with Reklar's own increased health, it now takes even more shards than before.

Reklar's health was quadrupled - I think. He was at 100k before, right? The mobs that drop the shards had their health...uh. I think they were around 2k before, so ~5 multiplier, maybe lil more. Anyway, the time taken to get shards has vastly increased, and more shards are consumed per fight. Eww.

To play devil's advocate here, these are the henchmen of an EPIC boss. Its not supposed to be an easy or solo'able fight. Its EPIC. Not meh.

At a guess, I think some would be - as am I - fine with the ads accompanying Reklar to be more difficult/as they are now. Their previous incarnation was pathetic. However, this is concerning the shards we have to farm before we even fight Reklar, and the mobs that drop the shards are just as strong as Reklar's ads. I do not see why we should have to do a portion of an epic fight when not actually doing that fight. Thus far, I only anticipate the Reklar fighting being an EPIC pain in the butt, both in preparing for the fight (collecting shards) and actually killing the dude.

Edit: I do think that getting shards before the changes was a little too easy, but we've just gone from one extreme to the other.

Another edit: Summary: Fine with Reklar ads being strong, shard-farmed ads should imo be weaker. >.> <.< Reread some stuff and noticed it was mostly focused on the fight itself. Oops

[Guaran]

So I'm trying to understand where the issue really falls here. If I could kill these guys (one at a time) as a level 100 adult dragon, with tier 4 scales, and only two tier 5 scales, with what I felt was a reasonable fear (entirely relative, I admit) of being killed in turn by them, then a more appropriately geared dragon adult or ancient must be able to do this without that fear of death being nearly so prevalent..

I think this is it right here.

They are epic boss adds, and you were in mainly t4 gear. These mobs are known to be among the toughest. Especially if you get ganged up on. Even at their old health levels, I got killed a few times trying to mass farm them, pulling all I could see into a ragemob on me all at once. 2 or 3 of them at once was ok, and I had tier 5 gear.

I don't see anything wrong with these being tougher in general than other mobs, or being something that you need to be geared for, or take a few helpers along with to hunt successfully, since they are after all, adds for an epic boss. Soloing them in t4 gear would likely mean they need some other buff.

The quest that sends you to kill these, depending on its' level, might need some tweaks. If it's being given at level 80, and you gotta kill 50, those numbers were arrived at when the mobs were at their old strength level. It would be completely in line to adjust it down to say kill 10 instead of 50(no idea what actual numbers are or the level given at), or perhaps change the quest to go after totally different mobs instead. Change it to go kill Thunder/Storm blights on Elnath... That's a fun place that doesn't get visited often enough.

[AmonGwareth]

It is required for a quest, Become a Primal Master, which is a Level 100 Dragon Adventurer quest. Have to kill 26 Warriors and loot 26 Shards.

[AmonGwareth]

Spent some time reviewing the "Become a Primal Master" quest. First, let me say that this quest is really dull. Kill 1, Loot 1, Kill 25, Loot 25, Stand here for a while. Boooring. So, its now on the block for re-writing. That said, I think we can accommodate one change to the Reklar area... Fallen Dragons/Warriors down the slope with less health (perhaps 2x what they used to have), while those near Reklar might be closer to the health they have now (but would drop 2-4x as many shards).

[Mythral]

Sound like good changes. Keeps the Reklar fight challenging as it is, makes the primal mastery quest and the shard farming a little less terrible. I'd call this a win-win for sure, I think.

[Drakarius Shadows]

This will be a welcome adjustment thank you..

[LOVWYRM]

Thank you Amon
so I can keep up my service:-)