Sad to see you leave

[Machaeon]

I am talking about new players who are confused and don't get experience like they did before [...] so how do you expect to build a new base when they hit a stone wall like this.

As several above have already mentioned... there are newer players (or at least those inexperienced in the area of bipeds) that were previously confused or annoyed that the best way to level the building schools wasn't building. Now it is. It's hardly a stone wall... just build on anyone's plot, build a world machine, or just mass-produce/sell your way through a tier that happens to have no work for you.

As someone who has a GMC, this change does not affect me at all (just as it doesn't affect you), though I'm honestly a bit jealous that it didn't based on the evidence. I could have gotten the building schools leveled faster. Think of it this way: the amount of experience that you got from processing materials in the building schools was added to applying and producing the actual resources so the experience was removed from using processing skills.

[Azath]

my main has been a master crafter for almost 10 years, so what you say doesn't apply to me, your not even on point, there is 19 schools and as a master crafter I have mastered all 19 craft schools not 2, if your not talking to me then use this as reference

If you are a GMC then the exp change to construction schools doesn't affect you or any other GMC?

I am not talking about me and my alts I can get around it I know the game well enough, I am talking about new players who are confused and don't get experience like they did before Christmas week, what a Christmas present they got, you too are an old timer and experienced, I am not talking about people who have and know others around it. but new players don't so how do you expect to build a new base when they hit a stone wall like this.

In one post you say "it doesn't apply to me" then in another you say you are for new players, lol...Anyway....

When i was new to bipeds I built my plot, got very little exp for building it, and was a little confused to be told the best way to level a construction school was to do...not-construction. This was especially disheartening to me as the main reason I used a biped initially was for plot building...I thought it made sense that a construction school should level best on cosntruction? xD But that wasn't the case until recently.

I have noticed that a lot of the people who are against the change are those who already have at least 1 GMC and a lot of those who support it are new or raising a biped for the first time...at least those who have revealed their opinions to me anyway.

Fitter and Weaver are the only non-combat schools that bipeds can level to hit 10 strength and dexterity per level.

Oh, you're right, I didn't think of that ahaha. Fair point.

[Lillyjo]

I started in blacksmith to be independent making what I could at that time blacksmith lower levels made armor also, when I got higher I collected the clothing some I bought and some were drop, I loved making the designer clothing. then mostly I lvled on belts or gloves, till I got high enough to join a building school at that time it was 150. then I started making bricks or doing any building I could for guild and none guild, we hand channels for building for those who didn't want to bother their time with building they were more interested in adventure, I didn't condem them for not wanting to build but just hunt, me I was not fast enough typing to do well in adventure and took it slower level as I had to for resources not for levels.
everntually I got to 100 outfitter, but found it was still not high enough to triple tech cloth armor for people I was working jobs from construction channel. building or making armor weapons I didn't level just to level I leveled to be able to make things for people who needed it. at that time they gave you the resources and comps and you made things they wanted. so my main search was to have all the tech's scribed and things that people needed. that is how I started then I left a guild and had to build my own plot, it wasn't easy at that time either, I had to waste so much resources but I got my first plot in parisina near the pad, and people would come to me to make items for them. slowly I got better and better then expert was no longer transmuting the bars bricks orbs etc. it was available but difficult to process.

from the money I earn from building I had someone who knew the game well make me 5 sets of building suits, from top to bottom it cost me 5g each set but he made me the best and tools and bags and gave me crystals and cogs for each of the 5 sets, his name was imperial I think I can check as its still on my craft gear. took me almost 6 years to become a master crafter. but I liked the game and stay around that long to do it and do it well.

I enjoyed crafting but just recently started a new old toon in the craft schools and all of a sudden they were all changed and messed up and its no more fun not at all. I didn't do it to prove anything to anyone just wanted a second toon to enjoy the game like I used to. but with the changes its not fun anymore it is a chore. and a boring one.

that is what I am so sorry about, that I can not enjoy advancing like I did with lillyjo, and suesana, is having a rough time but trying to enjoy it. but it is very difficult. this is the first time I have even gotten double exp..of course lillyjo didn't need any and I didn't play sue often. but I did make a dragon and his crafts went much faster then lillyjo's cause I knew what I was doing and I did crafting to get good scales for my adventure in the higher levels, so he got to 100 craft long before he was 100 adventure then lairshaping I did others lairs some for pay some for free just for exp. and then crystal shaping was easy cause I could harvest all the things I needed to make the higherst stuff.

the game used to operate as it was intended, now its peoples moods that change things in mid stream but I really believe its a bad move for the game. and that is why I am against it.

Lillyjo, chao's server

[Wispriss]

the game used to operate as it was intended, now its peoples moods that change things in mid stream but I really believe its a bad move for the game. and that is why I am against it.

I have 1 Biped; GMC with 2 100 Adv Classes and 2 Adv Classes slowly trailing behind those. I just recently "deleted" a newly started Biped that had 3 Craft Classes to 100 and 1 Adv Class to 100. . . And to be honest, it hurts. But I refuse to shed any more virtual tears over the fact that I am just not in the motivated mood to struggle to try to create another GMC or better yet, even a Master Builder.

I've watched a lot of updates come and go, normally not ever would I have thought to post my internal opinions because I just never had enough to say about them. But if there are to be any more future updates that involve "craft adjustments", here's my take on it:


*****Before A "Dragon Player" has an Opinion about "Anything" in Istaria, especially someone that's never engaged in "Biped Construction" a day in their life as a possibility; (when it was said that Lairshaping was too hard, etc etc)


Like Bipeds, Dragons are just as capable of doing the following: - - - - - - (and should be individually just like BiPeds)

Lets Split up the "Dragon Craft" School altogether: - - - - - - (as a change in society)


- Dragon Mining: Gemworking, Smelting, Metalworking

- Dragon Gathering: Essence Harvesting, Essence Shaping, Quarrying, Stoneworking

- Dragon Scalecraft: Scalecraft, Stoneworking, Smelting, Metalworking, Gemworking

- Dragon Spellcraft: Essence Harvesting, Quarrying, Essence Shaping, Stoneworking

- Dragon Tinkering: Salvaging, Metalworking, Smelting

- Dragon Enchanting: Transmutation, Essence Harvesting, Essence Shaping


- Dragon Crystalshaping/Lairshaping

Req's to Join: 100 Dragon Miner, 100 Dragon Gatherer, 100 Dragon Enchanter, 100 Dragon Scalecraft

[Lillyjo]

heheh I know they would wont go for that lol they don't like the fact that they level 5 materials with 1 school by getting dragon crafting to 100, you break it up those lazy dagons would have a fit. heheh

lillyjo, chaos server

[Zoubek]

Excuse me but this

...spliting...

is silly. I would agree to it if i could make same use of lair as of my plot, if i could make at least same amount of usefull stuff as bipeds. I think that levelling 6 schools just to be able to make cargo disk is a bit over the top.

I mainly play dragons because i dont like crafting (gathering) in Istaria. That being said i dont find biped construction hard or challenging at all. It just takes longer, but on other hand the possibilities you have with plot building as opposed to lairshaping....

And this

heheh I know they would wont go for that lol they don't like the fact that they level 5 materials with 1 school by getting dragon crafting to 100, you break it up those lazy dagons would have a fit. heheh

is just insulting.

[Lillyjo]

it was meant to be most dragons don't want a lair its too complex and layer upon layer its not easy. most don't like crafting at all, if my biped had as much much power as a dragon I would prolly not like crafting either but I both dragon at 100/100/100/100 so I am not lazy I enjoy crafting I never had a lair I worked on others lair some paid some did not all I got was exp. I am master crafter with both biped and dragon but the new system sucks, sorry but it does and its not fair to have to use another toon to make your resources while you make your building pieces. No 2 ways about it bipeds should get fair exp for building and so should dragons get fair exp for building lairs. as some don't want to wait till they are 100 dragon crafting to start their lair.

Lillyjo. chaos server. what is fair is fair the new system is not fair.

[Kerech]

What I don't understand... why change it now? The game has been out for over 13(?) years. What prompted this change this far into the game's life? To my knowledge, nobody has ever come out and said "Here is what we are changing, we had to do it because of (insert reason here)".

I don't care for the change, but I'll adapt to it. I just wish I understood the reasoning behind it.

[Azath]

I just wish I understood the reasoning behind it.

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Can't quote locked threads but:
"So a few of you have asked why this change is being considered, and my thought is "Fair enough", so here is the reasoning why.


It's already been pointed out that the experience given for different structures is different on biped construction. There are some structures which are simply bugged and are (in general) giving far more experience than others for applying the very same resource. This is actually what first caught my attention and made me look into it closer. It didn't seem right to me that simply because some players are "in the know", they would know to make Structure X repeatedly over Structure Y when leveling a particular tier or resource. Simply because no one has bothered to report the bug because the particular bug is beneficial to players doesn't mean that it isn't a bug.


So note that those structures will be fixed for a future update.


But then I looked at Construction experience versus Lairshaping experience and noticed a real inconsistency. Lairshapers get more than double the experience for the same skill level when applying resources to their lairs. And it's pretty close to the same for simply crafting the resource, with lairshapers getting one and a half to twice the experience.


So no, other than a few structures here and there that are bugged, there is nothing "broken" per se about the system unless you consider that there are some real oddities in the system relative to one another. All the documentation actually exists for changing the biped-construction schools over to using the primary skill system, so the work has already been done and calculated. It was just never something that someone had the time and inclination to implement. And as I was working in the crafting system already on other projects, I thought I'd take a look. " -Valea

Not sure if there's anything else in that thread to answer that though -shrug-

[Guaran]

If the exp for making the materials(keystones, braces, etc.) was more than doubled, as well as the placing(building) exp was more than doubled, then biped construction is now FAR FAR easier than it was in the past. And giving up processing exp (smelting, etc., probably 5 to 7% the total exp before it was changed) was a massive bargain in your favor.

For new biped players interested in construction, just know that construction schools are "Prestige" schools. One of the things that means, is that they cannot be your first school, nor should they be the first one you try to level all the way. Get blacksmith to 100 first. Then you will have both gathering and processing skills for Mason, Fitter, and Carpenter. Then when you start on those three, the leveling will go very quickly. Faster than it ever has.

Someone above posted leveling a biped construction school in 3 days, using a toon with high gathering skill (this is also during a double exp event). If you get blacksmith leveled, you will have about 850 ish (or more) current skill levels for gathering and processing, without taking into account teched gear, which when using t5 triple teched, will take you over 1000. Thats plenty to level those schools, and do so as quickly as Racktors' example.

[Kerech]

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Thanks! I had missed that thread during my last break

[Racktor]

If the exp for making the materials(keystones, braces, etc.) was more than doubled, as well as the placing(building) exp was more than doubled, then biped construction is now FAR FAR easier than it was in the past. And giving up processing exp (smelting, etc., probably 5 to 7% the total exp before it was changed) was a massive bargain in your favor.

It basically is from my knowledge. Devs took all the EXP you got from processing materials and added it to applying/creating the final product and also evened out all the EXP you get from the final products.

The dim essence spheres you see in my vault is literally all it took for me to go from the beginning level (think it's 1?) to lvl 25 or so. It's nuts. That's sort of why I don't understand the complaints. You're benefiting so hard off of this and yet it's... such a negative response.

[...] the new system sucks, sorry but it does and its not fair to have to use another toon to make your resources while you make your building pieces. No 2 ways about it bipeds should get fair exp for building and so should dragons get fair exp for building lairs[...]

There's literally no reason you HAVE to have an alt make it. Kerrsol could've very easily made all of those essence orbs I mentioned earlier at 2:1 himself, I just have 0 inspiration to log onto Kerrsol just to process orbs when I was gathering on Rack, lol. I probably would've benefitted, too, if I used the opportunity to level Gatherer...

EXP is very fair. When you build in a building school you get EXP for building buildings. When you lairshape in a lairshaping school you get EXP for shaping lairs.

It's better now than it's ever been

[Smaug]

I don't think the exp your getting now for making/applying material is double what you got for making/applying before. Its more then used to get for those two things but that total includes what you used to get for processing the raw materials.

If the reason for the changes is cause these are construction schools they should only get experience for constructing, well isnt the processing of raw materials part of constructing something?

And if its cause well this is way it should of been all the time cause these are "construction" schools, then are we gonna see bolt spells taken away from warriors and other melee schools cause well a melee shouldn't ever been throwing around magic bolts (gawd I hope not giving anyone ideas here) since they are melee schools and other oddities in other schools that have gone on since Istaria was born?

If this had been something changed long long ago when game was first being developed I'd be more inclined to say ok but after all these years was anyone complaining that hey we shouldn't of been getting exp for processing raw materials?

Now changing where you could level say fitter by making tools like axes or stone chisels etc or weaving by making pouches that I can more understand, those have nothing to do with either fitter or weaving, but not taking away the exp for processing raw materials into what is needed for construction.

[Lillyjo]

I really don't care what you say, your wrong, applying is not the main part to level the school so forget doubling applying now all you did was make it as bad a lairshaping rather then fix the broken you broke the best features of the game. I am done, its not worth wasting my breath, Guaran, complains about his toon not have a certain school big deal why doesn't he spend more time I me and longshanks on line working the toons to advance, not the years you been there but time in game for the toon he is complaining about.

Lillyjo, chaos server.

[Guaran]

You must have misunderstood, because I haven't complained about any of my toons in regards to anything crafting. My dragon is 100,100,100 crafting and I have a GMC biped as well.

Something I have asked for in the past was, a miner and gatherer school for dragons, to get better skill levels in those than DRCA gets, plus it would mean we could have schools with 10str/level (comparable to fitter), 10 power/level, etc. The game's Lore states that dragons are physically more powerful then the bipeds, adding the suggestion above would only actually make dragons equal in stats to bipeds...

I've also suggested that all exp for base material processing, would automatically go to the miner and gatherer schools, without having to switch. This way, everyone can level whatever schools they wish, while getting the exp applied where needed without doing a bunch of switching. Basically let people always be in miner and gatherer, along with a 3rd school they are leveling. Might not be possible, but would be nice.

These are suggestions, not complaints.

[Lillyjo]

Guaran, that is not what you said to me one day, you were talking about one of your bipeds not being able to level enchanter I think it was, Enchanter is hard as is Mason to get your skill to the top stoneworking doesn't get high enough till you level tinkerer. and that kills all your salvage exp. I see your requests were reasonable, and not listened to also, so I do apologize if I miss understood your comments to me in guild. dragons are strong and why they don't get top exp in mining and quarry I don't understand. but a brand new toon today without alts finds it impossible and confusing to understand that they have to change each school in order to get experience to make something to build, it changes all things I remember growing in horizons, many years ago, it wastes much time traveling back and forth to trainers to do the changes, a really waste of time.

Lillyjo, chaos server

[Kerech]

I've also suggested that all exp for base material processing, would automatically go to the miner and gatherer schools, without having to switch. This way, everyone can level whatever schools they wish, while getting the exp applied where needed without doing a bunch of switching. Basically let people always be in miner and gatherer, along with a 3rd school they are leveling. Might not be possible, but would be nice.

That would be a great change!

Or, even better (in my mind anyway) just let us set what school we want to be active without having to visit a trainer. Visit a trainer the first time to learn the skill, and maybe twice more to advance to Jman and Expert, but in between that, let us change schools whenever we want by checking a box in our School list.

[Lillyjo]

well away from building schools the other schools are changed also as I can use tools in one school but cant pick up the base tools in another also in outfitter, and I don't get any experience for deconning items I get the 50% of materials back but no exp. and its really annoying I can hold a cobalt pick but cant use my steel needle in outfitter, something is goofy.

Lillyjo, chaos server

[TheRock]

[QUOTE=Azath;316137]http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Thanks for linking the post.
I skimmed through the pages and noticed 90% was against the idea yet the 10% plus the ones who sweet-talked Velea won in the end.
My question is;
Why was that post created to get opinions when the change was gonna happen anyways
I guess some of us have something to remember Velea

Just my opinion on that post
cheers

[Dracillion]

Must really be getting an influx of new players to warrant these changes...

No surprise that things are becoming easier.

You play an old game, this is what happens. It's the balancing act before pulling the plug.