Sad to see you leave

[Pryzm]

Dunno where to go with this since the other thread where i red it was closed. HeartOfStone and Korchak leave? Sad to hear. I've been playing Ista for a while now and ive seen some of the game changes that might be making you leave. I don't really like all of em myself since i love ista for its harder gameplay and i still hope for a boost in some mobs or even a eastern continent in the future. Yet i keep playing since i have a deep love for the game even when i don't like some changes. Might help to suggest some changes to the devs? Its an MMO after all. New players who concider it too hard can ask for help anytie or lvl up further to do it allone.

As for the plot in Bristugo... ill think about takimg it but im not sure.

Hope to see you 2 stay since ive been playing alongside you sometimes .
Good luck anyway.

[Racktor]

Out if curiosity, which changes dont you like? Whats making the game easier? At you, Pryzm, and the other two as well. Im just honestly curious; I dont want to start a debate or anything

[LOVWYRM]

I wonder myself.. must be a biped thing??
On the other hand I just heard 2 friends complain (both GMC) that biped crafting is much too hard for a new player.
ATM I am very confused, cause I don`t know what probs or changes made Istaria /easier/harder...
An answer- without flaming but good reasoning would be appreciated.

[Kerech]

On the other hand I just heard 2 friends complain (both GMC) that biped crafting is much too hard for a new player.

I just started new characters, on a new server, a few months ago after a long absence from the game so I can relate to the new player crafting experience. Biped crafting isn't necessarily too hard for a new player, but it's a really long grind and it can be confusing trying to figure out what to make in each school to level, especially since in some schools you get experience for making the base bars/bricks/etc. and some schools you don't. Plus, having to visit a trainer to swap schools, and having cargo armor drop off when you do change schools, makes for a lot of running around which makes it difficult to level efficiently without a bank of storage at your disposal (which new players most likely won't have).

But, these problems have been there since the beginning of the game and I seriously doubt that they will ever change. I don't think biped crafting is "hard" as a result of these items, but it is certainly tedious at times, especially when trying to level multiple schools.

[Smaug]

But if you make the game to easy/simple might as well just play EQ or WoW or whatever the flavor of the month game is. Honestly I havent played either of the ones I mentioned lol.

Istaria is hard? yes. Istaria would be almost impossible to get started without a great community to answer questions/guide you in right direction? yes. Istaria makes you think and explore and learn new things all the time? yes. Istaria is complex without overwhelming you with numbers and stats aka DDO? yes. Istaria is differant then most games? Thank gawd yes. Istaria is fun (to me at least) cause of these things and more.

I just started new characters, on a new server, a few months ago after a long absence from the game so I can relate to the new player crafting experience. Biped crafting isn't necessarily too hard for a new player, but it's a really long grind and it can be confusing trying to figure out what to make in each school to level, especially since in some schools you get experience for making the base bars/bricks/etc. and some schools you don't. Plus, having to visit a trainer to swap schools, and having cargo armor drop off when you do change schools, makes for a lot of running around which makes it difficult to level efficiently without a bank of storage at your disposal (which new players most likely won't have).

But, these problems have been there since the beginning of the game and I seriously doubt that they will ever change. I don't think biped crafting is "hard" as a result of these items, but it is certainly tedious at times, especially when trying to level multiple schools.

[Kerech]

But if you make the game to easy/simple might as well just play EQ or WoW or whatever the flavor of the month game is. Honestly I havent played either of the ones I mentioned lol.

Istaria is hard? yes. Istaria would be almost impossible to get started without a great community to answer questions/guide you in right direction? yes. Istaria makes you think and explore and learn new things all the time? yes. Istaria is complex without overwhelming you with numbers and stats aka DDO? yes. Istaria is differant then most games? Thank gawd yes. Istaria is fun (to me at least) cause of these things and more.

I am not asking for Istaria to be made easier. I love the game. I've played it off and on since beta, and I keep coming back to it time and again. It's a wonderful, unique game, and I love it. But "less tedious" does not mean "easier".

[Wispriss]

@Ractor

i.e. "Dragcraft-Lairshaping etc > Dragons Leveling 1 School verses Biped Leveling 5 Different Schools" ... I think this is what LJ meant.

[Malicore]

Here's what I found in my GMC days. don't make cargo armors, use cloth (they are based on your ADV armor use, and not craft)and they won't be removed. cargo armors aren't all they're cracked up to be. you don't gain that much carry space from a full set. waste of a lot of materials and time to make, just to be told you can't use them upon switching classes.

In my opinion, the cargo gear (as bad as they are in requirements) should be greatly increased in capacity for using them. otherwise it's a waste of time. gears, hinges, springs and so on... for the ability to carry a few extra bars? (Pfft)

Plus, having to visit a trainer to swap schools, and having cargo armor drop off when you do change schools, makes for a lot of running around which makes it difficult to level efficiently without a bank of storage at your disposal (which new players most likely won't have).

[Guaran]

Here's what I found in my GMC days. don't make cargo armors, use cloth (they are based on your ADV armor use, and not craft)and they won't be removed. cargo armors aren't all they're cracked up to be. you don't gain that much carry space from a full set. waste of a lot of materials and time to make, just to be told you can't use them upon switching classes.

In my opinion, the cargo gear (as bad as they are in requirements) should be greatly increased in capacity for using them. otherwise it's a waste of time. gears, hinges, springs and so on... for the ability to carry a few extra bars? (Pfft)

+1

I didn't make a single piece of cargo gear until I was GMC. And then, it was only to make a few new pieces and make use of the t5 blessing techs on old pieces that only had the t3 blessings, and this was years after getting GMC.

T5 cloth or padded cloth (if you got the armor rating), triple teched with t5 crafting techs, is far and away the best way to level biped craft.

For the player wondering when to switch tiers, general rule is get at least 5 levels into the new tier before switching. But if you already have a high gathering/processing skill from a prior school, or can process materials gathered by an alt, you can switch sooner.

For what to craft, always make an item with an even number of resources required at optimal.

For what item, you need to try several items after each ding, to determine what is giving you the highest exp/resource: Make 1 item you are optimal on and decon it. Take (exp from crafting step + exp from decon step) and divide it by (bars used to craft - bars returned in decon) = exp/bar. You want to craft the item which gives the highest number from this formula. When not optimal, this will be low. Always only craft something you are at optimal on, but you can do the calculation above on something you are nearly optimal on, compare.

I really do wish Korchak would at least post specifically what changes he was referring to... my guess is the change to primary skill for the construction schools.

[Azath]

As a person who's never had a GMC before...I find Enchanter waaay easier to level up with the primary skill system.

I have two plots and it annoyed me to no end how with the old system, despite this, if I leveled a construcution school on my plot doing actual constrcution i almost never had enough work to give enough exp to move onto the next teir of stuff before the change, and that was with usually, a guild house per teir t3-5, at least 3 houses per teir t1-t3, and at least 5 silos all teirs, which is more than what fits on most plots altogether. I didn't want to have to keep building and knocking down stuff on plot until I had enough levels to build everything i wanted...

With the primary skill system i've overshot each teir by quite a bit on double exp when I train in construction schools doing only building without the need to knock down and rebuild, And from how much i've overshot a teir everytime I finish everything of one material one teir on my plot I think that even on normal exp- the construction schools finally award me enough exp on construction alone from only plot building for me to move onto the next teir after i've done all the work on my plot. Which is fantastic- before I spent a long time just being annoyed that I had to take a break from building to the t5 grind because I didn't level enough.

I am one who cares more about the completion of my plots than levels, and I can say this change was greatly beneficial to me.

If one doesn't have a plot, then I don't see why one would complain...if one does have a plot, this is greatly beneficial to them...if one is going for GMC without a plot, then they can either buy a plot sub for a single month and grind schools relatively quickly, or ask the community for work (there's TONNES of available plot work on chaos, especially if one asks a plot owner to provide temporary buildings for which to grind on, which i know some chaos plot owners would eagerly offer including myself...for order, i dunno the situation since last I checked the plot sitatuion was very dire, but one even on order can still ask for people to add temporary buildings for which to level on- besides, didn't someone say something about community? the community is already offering plot work...)

[Beryl]

I wonder myself.. must be a biped thing??
On the other hand I just heard 2 friends complain (both GMC) that biped crafting is much too hard for a new player.
ATM I am very confused, cause I don`t know what probs or changes made Istaria /easier/harder...
An answer- without flaming but good reasoning would be appreciated.

I've posted my $0.02 cents worth on the blog they provide here. I'd link it, but I've heard that's considered spam, so you can click under my name on the left to get to them.

[LOVWYRM]

Thy Beryl-read it. Very well written.
And very interesting to read.
Though I always try to care for and understand the needs and probs
of new/returning players- I learned about some other things- I had forgotten.
If see me ingame- pls contact me.

[Pryzm]

Out if curiosity, which changes dont you like? Whats making the game easier? At you, Pryzm, and the other two as well. Im just honestly curious; I dont want to start a debate or anything

Eh for example rift guards beeing lesser epics n stuff but that got removed anyway XD Atm i get along just fine

[gkoster]

I'm my self a new biped crafter.

And one thing craftring it self is not that difficult. when it comes to effective levelling its a compleately different story, This requires a lot of thinking a lot of information is also needed. and then still a lot of things are crossing each other which are difficult to forsee what will be happening.

Let take by example when to cross over to the next level material let say from bronze to iron. at the time you can make the shift you can mine about 1-10 bronze ore per hit. and if you switch over when you can you will be ad least 5 level on 1 iron ore per hit. next to that you r smelting goes from 2 to 1 to 4 to 1. So by now I figured out that I should stay very long on the low material before switching over. I think that even know this the last time I switched over to early. I think I should have stayed with steel till I could make cobalt pike axes with 50 to spare. compleately counter intuitive.

[Spyrioyo]

Honestly, Bipeds and dragons even in crafting and adventure are like two different games and they need to be treated as such. I can see both sides of the argument. I honestly think there should be a compromise. Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea. This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest. That's how I feel but I can understand and sympathize with what Lillyjo, Korchak and HeartofStone are saying I see there point clearly.

[Wispriss]

I honestly think there should be a compromise. Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea. This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest.

Well said. I can agree with this completely Spy.

[Racktor]

you are trying to tell me you made those with a new player without skills in 2 weeks your full of it.

"new player without skills"- never said I'm a new player, never said I didn't have skills from other schools. I just said I'm new to bipeds.

dragon crafters get experience working with essence ore, stone gems ..level1 school you get dragon crafting and all the skills go up. don't be stupid. ..with all the materials, even now they can harvest just like a biped.

..yes? and? Where did I say they didn't? What I said was this:
I could level blacksmith to 100 and gather just like my dragon, if a bit slower.

I have been working a baby toon and in order to level it and not lose lots of exp I have to make stuff with a miner for stone and metal, and process the essence and wood and cloth spools with gatherer other wise I don't get any exp.

Ok? Have fun? There's no problem in doing that. Yeah it's annoying to change schools but if anything you're leveling two schools at once and being even more efficient. That's win-win to me imo.

you I am sure didn't start those with a new toon without skills, and without getting exp in havesting first in order to get more then 1 1 1 1 and never get any better.

And where'd I say I didn't? lol
I gathered with my dragon.
Dragons gain 7 Quarrying, Mining, and Essence Harvesting a level.
What my biped got from Blacksmith at lvl 100?
7 Quarrying and Mining per level
What my biped got from Scholar at lvl 100?
7 Essence Harvesting a level

I could've gathered with my biped just as efficiently as my dragon. My dragon has crafting scales and if I were to gather with my ped, I'd make crafting suits for mining/quarrying/essence harvesting. He would've gathered at the exact same rate because he had the same same skills.
Which wasn't 1 1 1 1 1 1, by the way.

so how could you possiblely make any of those without making the orbs first. who made them an alt a friend a second alt handing your toon those resources.. only way you could have done it in a month or more.

My dragon. Who I never said I didn't use.
Pal, no one in their right mind levels a construction school as their very first school anyway unless they're going for the 10/level stats before doing adventure. My point was that the primary EXP system on biped construction schools is a good change and it helped me level faster than any of my other schools.

Using an alt to gather things for you is a very common practice if it's faster to gather with said alt. I don't know why you're trying to argue from the basis of using an entirely new character without any help from your other ones. Kerrsol is an established biped and could be self-sufficient but I don't have any suits made up for him so I just used Racktor instead...

Machaeon also gave the proof that I indeed did level Kerrsol up as fast as I did. So yea?

BTW here are Kerrsol's schools and skills. Disregard Miner as it is the one I started yesterday after Enchanter:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not entirely sure what she did from essence to orbs but it's your choice to switch between enchanter/gatherer if you don't want to waste xp. She might have, she might not have to save on time.

I probably should've used Gatherer but I didnt know it was a good idea at that point (was scared of salvaging skill) so I just used Racktor to process. Kerr's 2:1 anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Ractor

i.e. "Dragcraft-Lairshaping etc > Dragons Leveling 1 School verses Biped Leveling 5 Different Schools" ... I think this is what LJ meant.

Thanks, that makes a bit more sense. xD

Either way, it's a good point to make that dragons need a lot more resources per object than bipeds, from what I've been told and seen. For peds, it looks like:
raw resource -> processed resource -> building material.

For dragons, it's kinda like...
raw 1 -> processed 1 ----v
___________________Construction resource 1 v
raw 2 -> processed 2 ----^________________Building material
raw 3 -> processed 3------------------------------- ^

It's not exactly easily comparable...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea.

You don't *need* a plot. You can work on others' plots, you can work on world structures, you can just make the building material and sell it for coin. You lose out on experience that way, yes, I'm not denying that, but the construction schools aren't entirely locked out from you just because you dont have a plot.

Furthermore, the devs have offered in other threads to make world structures break down every so often to give biped players who don't own plots something to build. There are compromises to be made that isn't removing the new system.

This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest.

Yes? I'm not sure your point with this tbh, it sounds like you're trying to say that the new exp system isn't... working together? Or arguing about the point isn't working together?

I'm not going to just agree with others that I don't agree with just because 'we're a community'. We can be a community and disagree. It's part of being a mature adult - working together with those you don't always agree with.

Edit:
Short disclaimer to this stupidly long post - I'm sorry if I come off as rude or mocking. I mean to write my tone as inquisitive and overall calm but you know how text can be.

[Wispriss]

I'm not going to just agree with others that I don't agree with just because 'we're a community'. We can be a community and disagree. It's part of being a mature adult - working together with those you don't always agree with.

Edit:
Short disclaimer to this stupidly long post - I'm sorry if I come off as rude or mocking. I mean to write my tone as inquisitive and overall calm but you know how text can be.

Its all good Ractor.....


I can tell you are just trying to explain yourself and get to the point of things. I'm sure many of the new updates to the game have indeed been misconstrued a lot along the way. I think everyone is just trying to figure something new out and how to make everything work with everything that has been added/changed, etc.

Not every one will the the same as the other, and that's all in the good. Everything takes time in matters of new ways.

Also.... I'm pretty sure that this internal crafting debate should indeed be slowed or taken down a few notches as every one keeps making this "POST" about total crafting when the title of this post is nothing about that. Just my opinion.

[HeartOfStone]

Thanks, Pryzm Its always been a joy to be at your side during the raids and epic battles



I don't exactly want to go. Honestly. I'll admit, when I posted my last time, I was indeed very upset, with a lot of things about the game, and some things I wouldn't even want to mention in a forum unless it were to a Dev. only.

I'm not the type to rat or tattle by any means but some things have taken place that have discouraged me just a bit and I have had many thoughts about dropping my subs, yes. This idea still, for me, is being considered.

But I will heavily say, that if I did go, it would defiantly change a lot for me, I would miss many as I have managed to make a lot of virtual family while being in Istaria, and everyone even not in that close category means a great deal to me.

Initially I have learned a bit of a lesson just for myself, and that's not to be really really mad and post on the forums. All in all, I do apologize for what I had written out of more anger than intended. I think I just, unfortunately let it all build up too much after several weeks and I could have went a different way about it.

Like I said, me leaving is still up for debate, Kor and I have been discussing a lot of things.

I have 2 plot subs, and as of several weeks ago, no longer, do I own plots due to harassment from a random player about moving my location. I used to love building up, and LOL, breaking things down (same day) and doing it all over again..... I have lost that internal interest of plot building, like someone "shot or stole my rooster and all my hens flew the coop" on wanting to indulge in plot work. The same goes for cooking. I stopped doing daily-weekly checks and restocking weeks ago on every connie available, due to finding out someone was stealing all my food and reselling it for themselves.

I'm still trying to figure out where that dang rooster got to though.

I don't know if I'll stay or if I will go, who knows. I don't even know at the current moment.

[Smaug]

"Yes the construction schools gaining xp only for application of the resource was a very bad decision, I don't care how much xp was increased to make up for it. I'm a fitter and I'm making Joints and I get no xp for the bars or for the Joints at least?"

Just to point out on exp, you do get exp for making the joints and for applying, only exp your not getting now is for making the bars, unless that was a typo and you do realize you get exp for making the joints/sheets/braces/timbers/sources/spheres/etc.

Hope both of you decide to stay, the community wouldn't be the same without ya.