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Thread: Sad to see you leave

  1. #21

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I agree the crafting was the best, and it was the best crafting schools on the internet, now its awful and boring and nerve wracking when your a new new player, its almost impossible to advance without help from others or other alts or other schools, weaver doesn't get exp for spools or at one time she also got experience for making clothing, mahagra aug tazoon used to be fun to make it in weaver and helped you level your weaver when you get exp for spools you need to weave with and you can make and decon something to help you get high enough to work on the next tier. some think because of Lairshaping doesn't get exp for resources then other building schools shouldn't. yet the dragon can do dragon crafting and level 5 building schools with all resources at one time..Do NoT tell that is fair it is awful. the consept of lairs came much later in the game and should have given dragons the ability to level while lairshaping and getting the materials. but someone didn't need it because most where too high to get exp for the resources. It is the worse decision that you devs have ever made to invite others to want to do the boring job of builders, and learn the game. you Killed a trade, really killed it and maybe the prospect of new players hanging around cause most loved builders, to build their plots. I am so sorry for your decision

    Lillyjo, Chaos server

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Wow you guys are acting like the construction schools change is the end of the world, geeze, LOL

    Here's my (apparently unpopular in this thread) opinion.

    I leveled Enchanter faster than I have ever leveled any other school in the game after this change. Here's my vault without deleting any novians:


    Those 500 sources are mostly just from going lvl 90ish to 100, btw, those were the rough levels. This *is* on double EXP, but I can tell you right now it's taken far more resources to level any of my other schools than this.

    If you're leveling a construction school it's a 99% chance that you own a plot already. Other than completionism/GMC, what is the point of leveling a construction school without a plot? What is so bad about being told that you need to use your C\construction school to construct things?!

    I am a rather new person to bipeds, by the way. Kerrsol, my Sslik, is less than a year old or a bit over it. This was my very first construction school I leveled and I enjoyed it. Far more than a lot of my other schools.

    My friend leveled Weaver entirely on construction resources and was pissed when he was told that wasn't the best way to do it. This is a new biped player as well.

    I leveled Scholar mostly on spells and was confused and angry when I realised that freakin' essence siphons were a better option to grind on.

    I'd rather level up myself through actually using resources related to the school and have to follow the tiers than sit at a shop and grind the highest tier resource all day, every day.

    And Lillyjo,
    yet the dragon can do dragon crafting and level 5 building schools with all resources at one time
    I'm sorry, I have no idea what you mean?

    If you mean a dragon can level up DCRA and help a ped level 5 building schools with all resources available: I could start leveling all my building schools if I wanted with just Blacksmith, nix the dragon. Yeah it's slower, but my skills were very similar to my dragon even with that one craft school. I was only slower because of lack of flight and a slightly crappy mining skill that was made way better when I leveled a few other craft scools.

    If you mean a dragon can level up DCRA and level ITS 5 building schools with all resources: No? Dragons only have one building school, and, secondly, it used the primary skill system far before this. You don't get crap from bricks and bars in lairshaper from what I remember.

    I'm just scratching my head here wondering why it's so bad. As a new biped player who has leveled many craft schools on a non-primary system and just hit this wall of primary skill, I much prefer the primary skill system.

    Go ahead and throw whatever argument you have at this, but I honestly don't think anyone in this thread will see eye to eye with me. That's fine. Different opinions, to each their own, etc etc.

    I just want people to know that this isn't the only opinion in this game.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Well put Rackie, looking at the novians there I can safely say I wasted a LOT more than that just on enchanter back when I did it while avoiding the primary school system.

    I used primarily shining and radiant essence to level enchanter and good lord I spent FAR too much time on it. I'm talking an expert shop filled to the brim with shining essence several times over and then a t6 shop filled to the brim with radiant essence several times over. And even with that I can guarantee that I made more of the t2-t4 materials than what's shown in Kerr's vault before I started grinding out enchanter with the upper tiers. Still during double xp mind you, so the comparison is adequate.

    Honestly, the only complaint for the primary skill system based on that would be completionists running into the problem of not owning a plot. But even then, you could just mass-produce the building materials and sell them on the nearest pawnbroker for instant coin or on a consigner if there's a market for it.
    Ordinis est mortuus
    Istara's Chosen Guildmaster
    Experienced Hunter, Healer, and Grand Master Crafter

  4. #24

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    you are trying to tell me you made those with a new player without skills in 2 weeks your full of it. dragon crafters get experience working with essence ore, stone gems ..level1 school you get dragon crafting and all the skills go up. don't be stupid. ..with all the materials, even now they can harvest just like a biped. I have been working a baby toon and in order to level it and not lose lots of exp I have to make stuff with a miner for stone and metal, and process the essence and wood and cloth spools with gatherer other wise I don't get any exp.
    you I am sure didn't start those with a new toon without skills, and without getting exp in havesting first in order to get more then 1 1 1 1 and never get any better.
    so how could you possiblely make any of those without making the orbs first. who made them an alt a friend a second alt handing your toon those resources.. only way you could have done it in a month or more.

    Lillyjo, chaos server

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I can attest that Racktor did get Kerrsol from 1-100 Enchanter just in the time double xp has been up:





    Though I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that you have to gather everything with the character that's getting the levels... if you have a more capable gatherer, it makes sense to use it. She never said she didn't gather with Rackor, that's one part of the reason that it went by so quickly.... and for my comparison, I ALSO used my dragon to gather since my biped wasn't at GMC yet. It took me a lot longer to level enchanter using orbs primarily. Kerrsol took 3 days to level 1-100 based on the logs Racktor sent to a chat in Discord, Hetanko took much.... much longer for me to level.

    I'm not entirely sure what she did from essence to orbs but it's your choice to switch between enchanter/gatherer if you don't want to waste xp. She might have, she might not have to save on time.
    Ordinis est mortuus
    Istara's Chosen Guildmaster
    Experienced Hunter, Healer, and Grand Master Crafter

  6. #26

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    @Ractor

    i.e. "Dragcraft-Lairshaping etc > Dragons Leveling 1 School verses Biped Leveling 5 Different Schools" ... I think this is what LJ meant.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Honestly, Bipeds and dragons even in crafting and adventure are like two different games and they need to be treated as such. I can see both sides of the argument. I honestly think there should be a compromise. Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea. This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest. That's how I feel but I can understand and sympathize with what Lillyjo, Korchak and HeartofStone are saying I see there point clearly.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrioyo View Post
    I honestly think there should be a compromise. Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea. This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest.



    Well said. I can agree with this completely Spy.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    you are trying to tell me you made those with a new player without skills in 2 weeks your full of it.
    "new player without skills"- never said I'm a new player, never said I didn't have skills from other schools. I just said I'm new to bipeds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    dragon crafters get experience working with essence ore, stone gems ..level1 school you get dragon crafting and all the skills go up. don't be stupid. ..with all the materials, even now they can harvest just like a biped.
    ..yes? and? Where did I say they didn't? What I said was this:
    I could level blacksmith to 100 and gather just like my dragon, if a bit slower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    I have been working a baby toon and in order to level it and not lose lots of exp I have to make stuff with a miner for stone and metal, and process the essence and wood and cloth spools with gatherer other wise I don't get any exp.
    Ok? Have fun? There's no problem in doing that. Yeah it's annoying to change schools but if anything you're leveling two schools at once and being even more efficient. That's win-win to me imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    you I am sure didn't start those with a new toon without skills, and without getting exp in havesting first in order to get more then 1 1 1 1 and never get any better.
    And where'd I say I didn't? lol
    I gathered with my dragon.
    Dragons gain 7 Quarrying, Mining, and Essence Harvesting a level.
    What my biped got from Blacksmith at lvl 100?
    7 Quarrying and Mining per level
    What my biped got from Scholar at lvl 100?
    7 Essence Harvesting a level

    I could've gathered with my biped just as efficiently as my dragon. My dragon has crafting scales and if I were to gather with my ped, I'd make crafting suits for mining/quarrying/essence harvesting. He would've gathered at the exact same rate because he had the same same skills.
    Which wasn't 1 1 1 1 1 1, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    so how could you possiblely make any of those without making the orbs first. who made them an alt a friend a second alt handing your toon those resources.. only way you could have done it in a month or more.
    My dragon. Who I never said I didn't use.
    Pal, no one in their right mind levels a construction school as their very first school anyway unless they're going for the 10/level stats before doing adventure. My point was that the primary EXP system on biped construction schools is a good change and it helped me level faster than any of my other schools.

    Using an alt to gather things for you is a very common practice if it's faster to gather with said alt. I don't know why you're trying to argue from the basis of using an entirely new character without any help from your other ones. Kerrsol is an established biped and could be self-sufficient but I don't have any suits made up for him so I just used Racktor instead...

    Machaeon also gave the proof that I indeed did level Kerrsol up as fast as I did. So yea?

    BTW here are Kerrsol's schools and skills. Disregard Miner as it is the one I started yesterday after Enchanter:


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Machaeon View Post
    I'm not entirely sure what she did from essence to orbs but it's your choice to switch between enchanter/gatherer if you don't want to waste xp. She might have, she might not have to save on time.
    I probably should've used Gatherer but I didnt know it was a good idea at that point (was scared of salvaging skill) so I just used Racktor to process. Kerr's 2:1 anyway.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Wispriss View Post
    @Ractor

    i.e. "Dragcraft-Lairshaping etc > Dragons Leveling 1 School verses Biped Leveling 5 Different Schools" ... I think this is what LJ meant.
    Thanks, that makes a bit more sense. xD

    Either way, it's a good point to make that dragons need a lot more resources per object than bipeds, from what I've been told and seen. For peds, it looks like:
    raw resource -> processed resource -> building material.

    For dragons, it's kinda like...
    raw 1 -> processed 1 ----v
    ___________________Construction resource 1 v
    raw 2 -> processed 2 ----^________________Building material
    raw 3 -> processed 3------------------------------- ^

    It's not exactly easily comparable...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrioyo View Post
    Some people cannot afford plots but they may want to still level up there construction school and to force such a change you have to have a plot may not be the best idea.
    You don't *need* a plot. You can work on others' plots, you can work on world structures, you can just make the building material and sell it for coin. You lose out on experience that way, yes, I'm not denying that, but the construction schools aren't entirely locked out from you just because you dont have a plot.

    Furthermore, the devs have offered in other threads to make world structures break down every so often to give biped players who don't own plots something to build. There are compromises to be made that isn't removing the new system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrioyo View Post
    This game is about the communitym the players and we need to work together to be honest.
    Yes? I'm not sure your point with this tbh, it sounds like you're trying to say that the new exp system isn't... working together? Or arguing about the point isn't working together?

    I'm not going to just agree with others that I don't agree with just because 'we're a community'. We can be a community and disagree. It's part of being a mature adult - working together with those you don't always agree with.

    Edit:
    Short disclaimer to this stupidly long post - I'm sorry if I come off as rude or mocking. I mean to write my tone as inquisitive and overall calm but you know how text can be.
    Last edited by Racktor; January 7th, 2017 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    I'm not going to just agree with others that I don't agree with just because 'we're a community'. We can be a community and disagree. It's part of being a mature adult - working together with those you don't always agree with.

    Edit:
    Short disclaimer to this stupidly long post - I'm sorry if I come off as rude or mocking. I mean to write my tone as inquisitive and overall calm but you know how text can be.

    Its all good Ractor.....


    I can tell you are just trying to explain yourself and get to the point of things. I'm sure many of the new updates to the game have indeed been misconstrued a lot along the way. I think everyone is just trying to figure something new out and how to make everything work with everything that has been added/changed, etc.

    Not every one will the the same as the other, and that's all in the good. Everything takes time in matters of new ways.

    Also.... I'm pretty sure that this internal crafting debate should indeed be slowed or taken down a few notches as every one keeps making this "POST" about total crafting when the title of this post is nothing about that. Just my opinion.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    As a person who's never had a GMC before...I find Enchanter waaay easier to level up with the primary skill system.

    I have two plots and it annoyed me to no end how with the old system, despite this, if I leveled a construcution school on my plot doing actual constrcution i almost never had enough work to give enough exp to move onto the next teir of stuff before the change, and that was with usually, a guild house per teir t3-5, at least 3 houses per teir t1-t3, and at least 5 silos all teirs, which is more than what fits on most plots altogether. I didn't want to have to keep building and knocking down stuff on plot until I had enough levels to build everything i wanted...

    With the primary skill system i've overshot each teir by quite a bit on double exp when I train in construction schools doing only building without the need to knock down and rebuild, And from how much i've overshot a teir everytime I finish everything of one material one teir on my plot I think that even on normal exp- the construction schools finally award me enough exp on construction alone from only plot building for me to move onto the next teir after i've done all the work on my plot. Which is fantastic- before I spent a long time just being annoyed that I had to take a break from building to the t5 grind because I didn't level enough.

    I am one who cares more about the completion of my plots than levels, and I can say this change was greatly beneficial to me.

    If one doesn't have a plot, then I don't see why one would complain...if one does have a plot, this is greatly beneficial to them...if one is going for GMC without a plot, then they can either buy a plot sub for a single month and grind schools relatively quickly, or ask the community for work (there's TONNES of available plot work on chaos, especially if one asks a plot owner to provide temporary buildings for which to grind on, which i know some chaos plot owners would eagerly offer including myself...for order, i dunno the situation since last I checked the plot sitatuion was very dire, but one even on order can still ask for people to add temporary buildings for which to level on- besides, didn't someone say something about community? the community is already offering plot work...)

  12. #32

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I knew it was bull, you are comparing apples with oranges, ..I knew you didn't not make make them from essence yet you lead people to believe its so easy. I am in a guild that takes new players and its impossible for them to get anywhere without so much help its not worth our time taking in any new players. enchanter is one of the hardest building schools to level it high enough to build and efficiently 40/1 for a source and 30 to 1 for a sphere is depressing to a player.
    There is no quick way to level enchanter and yes it is a building school. the same things goes for other school, don't forget biped levels 19 schools and their work benefit everyone, confection with foods for quest and for death point removal, for both dragons and bipeds, Potions for mining harvesting for the raw materials all need, for dragons and biped to use, plus scholar for scrolls for shields and for transport for both dragons and bipeds, I cannot understand why you complain about crafting being easy when you didn't do it the honest way you cheated. and based your facts on that. I can see a young new dragon without alts wanting a lair so sure he should get experience for the work he does, all of it. harvesting quarrying mining yes. but no justifaction on taking away ways that bipeds can help themselves level their craft schools, all 19 of them.

    Lillyjo, Chaos server and I am sad by people leaving because of your decision many were friends for years.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    I knew it was bull, you are comparing apples with oranges, ..I knew you didn't not make make them from essence yet you lead people to believe its so easy. I am in a guild that takes new players and its impossible for them to get anywhere without so much help its not worth our time taking in any new players. enchanter is one of the hardest building schools to level it high enough to build and efficiently 40/1 for a source and 30 to 1 for a sphere is depressing to a player.
    There is no quick way to level enchanter and yes it is a building school. the same things goes for other school, don't forget biped levels 19 schools and their work benefit everyone, confection with foods for quest and for death point removal, for both dragons and bipeds, Potions for mining harvesting for the raw materials all need, for dragons and biped to use, plus scholar for scrolls for shields and for transport for both dragons and bipeds, I cannot understand why you complain about crafting being easy when you didn't do it the honest way you cheated. and based your facts on that. I can see a young new dragon without alts wanting a lair so sure he should get experience for the work he does, all of it. harvesting quarrying mining yes. but no justifaction on taking away ways that bipeds can help themselves level their craft schools, all 19 of them.

    Lillyjo, Chaos server and I am sad by people leaving because of your decision many were friends for years.
    My current biped is very mixed in his crafting classes, I'm doing everything myself, no alts involved nor other people (this also means I don't even buy stuff from the connies, in a way, I'm playing even harder than most newbies), leveling the way I want (read: not effective in most people's eyes), and even I find that construction schools level easier now compared to several years ago when I did so on blight (which has permanent double xp, so I had it easier than live servers and still found it absurd you got so little xp for building materials).

    Yes I level 19 schools as a biped, but with those 19 schools I become better than my dragon will ever be at, well, anything. Do I hate the grind? so-so. Do I think it's better with the primary system? definitely.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Another player who gets help from everywhere and talks like only primary should get experience, I think everyone who does a job should get paid. everyone. depending on the job base the pay on that it all takes time lots of time and time is money. so its not a fair game anymore. it used to be you worked you advance now nope. it is no longer a fair game, grinding is the name of the game but without experience its not worth bothering I don't think I will make another potion or dye or make another quest food or bowl for the dragons quest unless its my guild. ...none of it is fair I work I want satisfaction, if its not money then advancement. I just did a shop I noticed to in sslanis yesterday a stone shop near an abandoned slate mine, I did it alone and yesterday and finished it with sue, my alt I let her put in a few pieces to pop it. no exp for lilly but satisfaction that I completed the job. so why are you guys so petty?

    Lillyjo, chaos server

  15. #35

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    Another player who gets help from everywhere and talks like only primary should get experience, I think everyone who does a job should get paid. everyone. depending on the job base the pay on that it all takes time lots of time and time is money. so its not a fair game anymore. it used to be you worked you advance now nope. it is no longer a fair game, grinding is the name of the game but without experience its not worth bothering I don't think I will make another potion or dye or make another quest food or bowl for the dragons quest unless its my guild. ...none of it is fair I work I want satisfaction, if its not money then advancement. I just did a shop I noticed to in sslanis yesterday a stone shop near an abandoned slate mine, I did it alone and yesterday and finished it with sue, my alt I let her put in a few pieces to pop it. no exp for lilly but satisfaction that I completed the job. so why are you guys so petty?

    Lillyjo, chaos server
    We are petty? you are making assumptions about everyone that doesn't agree with your mindset, I have been playing on Ssala on chaos, and have not once asked for something in marketplace or my guild, it's why I have 30 tink, 28 miner and 23 gatherer as my highest schools, schools players "should not level" acccording to vets that don't understand how useless salvage xp really is, so I have gather rate high enough to support my other schools and can make my own disks.

    We are talking from experience, we have leveled these schools in the new system, be it with or without alts/outside help. All I see from the other side of this arguement is opinions not backed up by experience, examples or evidence.

    At least threads like these have a purpose, I know who to put on ignore if I want to avoid in-game salt...It's so sad that with every change, there's that group of people that will scream bloody murder untill it's back to how it was, which would only stagnate the game...

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    I knew it was bull, you are comparing apples with oranges, ..I knew you didn't not make make them from essence yet you lead people to believe its so easy. I am in a guild that takes new players and its impossible for them to get anywhere without so much help its not worth our time taking in any new players. enchanter is one of the hardest building schools to level it high enough to build and efficiently 40/1 for a source and 30 to 1 for a sphere is depressing to a player.
    There is no quick way to level enchanter and yes it is a building school. the same things goes for other school, don't forget biped levels 19 schools and their work benefit everyone, confection with foods for quest and for death point removal, for both dragons and bipeds, Potions for mining harvesting for the raw materials all need, for dragons and biped to use, plus scholar for scrolls for shields and for transport for both dragons and bipeds, I cannot understand why you complain about crafting being easy when you didn't do it the honest way you cheated. and based your facts on that. I can see a young new dragon without alts wanting a lair so sure he should get experience for the work he does, all of it. harvesting quarrying mining yes. but no justifaction on taking away ways that bipeds can help themselves level their craft schools, all 19 of them.

    Lillyjo, Chaos server and I am sad by people leaving because of your decision many were friends for years.
    But... do you not level OTHER schools before the building schools first? Why would you level any of the building schools before you get the basics like blacksmith/outfitter/scholar/etc. done?

    Also it's... not "cheating" to use one of your own characters. It just makes the grind go by somewhat faster... And my comparison between Racktor and my own biped SHOWS definitively that the new system is faster. It took me several weeks to get enchanter leveled (using primarily essence to orbs and gathering with my dragon) while it took Rackie 3 days. That's quite the difference and shows that it's a lot easier now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    Another player who gets help from everywhere and talks like only primary should get experience
    And let me say something else: there is no reason to feel shame in getting help from other players. It's mindsets like this that drive away people from the game "Oh you should just level it yourself." or "Why should I craft that for you? You can do it yourself."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyjo View Post
    so its not a fair game anymore. it used to be you worked you advance now nope. it is no longer a fair game, grinding is the name of the game but without experience its not worth bothering I don't think I will make another potion or dye or make another quest food or bowl for the dragons quest unless its my guild. ...none of it is fair I work I want satisfaction, if its not money then advancement.
    Talk about people being petty... "I'm not going to craft for anyone other than my guild now because I don't like a change." And surprise surprise, you're not going to get experience from things that are far below your current skill level. So what? Does that mean you're never crafting t1 spells ever again for people?
    Ordinis est mortuus
    Istara's Chosen Guildmaster
    Experienced Hunter, Healer, and Grand Master Crafter

  17. #37

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I don't own any plots myself, but I do the construction schools for two reasons. One, the completionist in me likes to see it move. Two, Fitter and Weaver are the only non-combat schools that bipeds can level to hit 10 strength and dexterity per level. If you want to max out your stats thru crafting, you really have to take those two schools. It's a shame there is no crafting option to max the two mental stats.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I am not talking about me and my alts I can get around it I know the game well enough, I am talking about new players who are confused and don't get experience like they did before Christmas week, what a Christmas present they got, you too are an old timer and experienced, I am not talking about people who have and know others around it. but new players don't so how do you expect to build a new base when they hit a stone wall like this.

    Lillyjo, chao's server,

    PS, I have played istaria since late 2002 or early 2003, and I have enjoyed it all those years many changes I didn't like but this is the worse, all they had to do was to be fair is give the dragons exp for their lairshaping not just completed items but collecting the resources they needed to do the lairshaping.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    NaturalMage not sure who your talking about but my main has been a master crafter for almost 10 years, so what you say doesn't apply to me, your not even on point, there is 19 schools and as a master crafter I have mastered all 19 craft schools not 2, if your not talking to me then use this as reference, their is many master crafters and it took my first biped 6 years almost and my dragon much less as he is 100/100/100/100.
    Thank you

    Lillyjo, chaos server

  20. #40

    Default Re: Sad to see you leave

    I do more things for many people and for just a tip or nothing. so you don't know what your talking about but if I have to spend my days trying to help a new player day after day cause he cant figure out how to do it without a large vault or a plot or silo's its not fun, and its not worth the time if you cannot get things done you would get discouraged.

    I have built along with longshanks over 100 of the torn down and newly place community workshop. but lillyjo and longshanks we worked together, no pay no exp but not a problem because we did it for the good of the game and to help others.

    Lillyjo, chaos server

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