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Thread: Portal Changes

  1. #21

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    It's completely Viable and far better than what we have now. Years ago, Bristugo had a single ring and it worked just fine. It will be alphabetical.. very easy to find your destination. and even as the portals are now, you have to scroll. So thats no reason not to combine them like they used to be.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Everyone has their own opinion of whats viable and easy to access. to me.. this is nothing more than another unneeded change. I am sure others will agree.. just as others will also agree with you. This just reminds me of a company takeover (like a cable company), you are used to all the channels where they are. now new company says: Hey!! we're gonna make it more convenient in our new channel line-up. so things will be much easier to find and sort. Well, ummm... ok. wait a while, now you get this totally disorganized channel line-up that absolutely makes no sense as to why it was setup that way. where's the convenience? Channels strewn here and there and no real sense of order anywhere, but inside someone's head.. where it sounded good on paper and in their mind. now on the screen.. total chaos. I don't even like Bristugo (I actually hate it, and avoid it if at all possible) I do not like even the newest changes to Heather and the "Tazoon Region". If it's a settlement, put it on settlement portal, why do we now need regions?. Bad enough we already had 2 portals, now you want one with regions too. Then what?. Sorry, but I do not agree with you, or these new changes being proposed. Then again, I don't have to agree. Whatever they want to do, they will do no matter what.

    But as I mentioned earlier... everyone see's things their own way. This is not mine. This is also not to make things easier for new players.. because no one has asked new players what they wanted, and never will. I have never seen a new player come into the game and ask that the portals be changed to make it easier for them, have you? Like renaming mobs and saying it's to attract new players.. New players never saw the old mob names.. bad excuse. All you end up doing is confusing the vet players and until they get used to this new setup, slowing them down, plain and simple.. Most times... simple is best, no need to keep complicating things.. 'nough said. enjoy

  3. #23

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Best in my eyes would be: Put that portal changes project back into position 100 in prio list.

    - Noone wants wants it- noone needs it--noone sees the masterplan behind. ATM.
    (From the view of the community.)

    - The ones who say "NO" here in that thread ARE representatives: I, eG., talked to noone who posted here (besides Elteria)
    about that issue- but with a lot of players who do not post here or use Discord.

    - Community still has not recovered from the turbulences the change in craft system caused. And those who did not like that change-
    still dislike it much after weeks having to live with it. Esp.returning players flame easily when they realize it.
    (same often goes for renamed mobs- and consider how long ago that was introduced).

    - it will be up to the same people as usual- to convice flaming players not to leave.

    - Thank you Amon that you leave the settlements where they are (where they belong).
    But that is a massive modification of the plan- before it even started...

    edit: Only saying NO is not enough, I know- another suggestion should be made.
    I have no idea- but THANK YOU GUARAN, for posting your alternative !!
    Last edited by LOVWYRM; March 27th, 2017 at 07:57 AM.
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Malicore View Post
    Everyone has their own opinion of whats viable and easy to access. to me.. this is nothing more than another unneeded change. I am sure others will agree.. just as others will also agree with you. This just reminds me of a company takeover (like a cable company), you are used to all the channels where they are. now new company says: Hey!! we're gonna make it more convenient in our new channel line-up. so things will be much easier to find and sort. Well, ummm... ok. wait a while, now you get this totally disorganized channel line-up that absolutely makes no sense as to why it was setup that way. where's the convenience?
    I don't think an Alphabetical lineup is remotely comparable to a cable company re-arranging all their channels... btw when they do that it is because of bandwidth reasons, not to annoy you..

    The first part of my suggestion I think is good regardless. The second part, why not give it a try at one of the hub locations? They can implement it on a temporary basis at Genevia or Bristugo, that way everyone can form a real experience based opinion rather than the typical cries of "DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!!".

    After it's been there for 3 months or so, say from content patch x to content patch y, they can ask for feedback, informed feedback from all players, and go from there.

    In any case, in cities with 2 side by side rings with relatively short lists on each, those could be combined. If the list is deemed too long for the hubs, they could still be combined into say 2 rings... A Mainland ring, and and Islands ring. Easy to know and logical separation
    of destinations.

    I hope they try it so we all can get a sense of it.

    Also hope to know what the plans were regarding the rings recently changed with much shorter destination lists... That way we can give a more informed input on that as well.

    Thanks

  5. #25

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    The portal system is a jumbled mess and changing it is not easy, but that does not mean that it should be left alone. To do what you suggested, Guaran, would require the entire system to be blown up and redone. Seriously, it is that bad. Not just the data, but the way it was implemented. I'm not necessarily against that, just saying that both here and in my regular job I find the use of the phrase "that's easy" to be extremely amusing coming from people who have no concept of what the underlying systems and/or data look like.

    You have: Pad Groups, Gate Groups, pad groups can contain gate groups, gate groups can contain pad groups, individual pads are then assigned pad groups, individual gates are assigned gate groups. Pads and Gates can be part of multiple groups. So, for example, "Settlements and Shepherd' Island" is one pad group and a gate group. "Dalimond Peninsula" is another pad and gate group.

    I get where people are coming from, that vets need shorter transit times and routes. However, many of you are missing the ultimate point and that is that the system is illogical from the perspective of someone new coming to the game. I used Parsinia as an example of how it used to be wrong and everyone jumped on that as if it represented the entire system. But there are others that are problematic.

    I like the hub-spoke system, but I am open to other suggestions and ideas. One that was brought up, why can you not travel to any pad on Lesser Aradoth from any portal on LA? Settlements which represents player communities being grouped together made sense when there was almost no content near those areas. But now with lots of content in and around those communities it seems logical to also have them grouped by region since not everyone travel to and from those communities is doing so because of a plot or resource gathering. That makes sense to me as well and I am certainly open to it.

    Change is always hard, but change is inevitable. It is going to happen, but what and how is what can still be tweaked and adjusted.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    I get where people are coming from, that vets need shorter transit times and routes. However, many of you are missing the ultimate point and that is that the system is illogical from the perspective of someone new coming to the game. I used Parsinia as an example of how it used to be wrong and everyone jumped on that as if it represented the entire system. But there are others that are problematic.
    The reason I personally used Parsinia as an example is because it's the hub for some T1 materials like bronze and sandstone which are often used by vets in some plot structures, not because it was mentioned here.

    I could make the same argument with, say, someone who has a plot in Drift Point that needs T6 resources from Harro.
    Drift Point -> Mahagra -> Bristugo -> Harro -> Bristugo -> Drift Point

    Regardless, I do think you're thinking too logically, no matter how.. dumb that sounds. I have never ever seen a new person who has thought the portal system is illogical as you do. You're looking at it very technically, as if the ugliness back end is seen as ugly as front-end. It works fine as-is and newbies coming to the game really aren't as confused as you think. When I played GW2, I'm pretty sure that every portal led everywhere. Granted, there were few portal destinations and you fast-travelled using coin and your map, but it's not unheard of to have a portal link everywhere. I'm pretty sure I could fast travel out of my own region, too, but it's been a long time..

    I do agree that change is hard and inevitable; you'll see me front lines advocating for many changes that others might detest. (I like the primary skill system change as a new biped player, for example. *gestures to Lovwyrm's post* And I'm a vet overall) However, some changes are simply unneeded or cause an effect the opposite of what you may wish it to.

    If there was a way to add a column called 'region' that would be amazing, but if it's technically impossible, then maybe we can find some other compromise that allows us to go anywhere but also cleans up back end?

    People are willing to work with it if it doesn't mean effectively doubling our travel times in some cases

  7. #27

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Hmm. It is pretty disorganized atm. So maybe starting over we will end up with something better. I was thinking more about it, and the current destinations labeled "Settlements" should just be changed to their Region. Guilds might be the only one of the older naming conventions worth keeping around, since the plots in those communities work differently.

    Can destinations belong to multiple pad groups?

    If so, then it should be possible to start building the new groups while the old is still in place. New combined rings in a few cities to start with, and we can see progress as it can be worked. Which will also allow feedback while the changes are trickling in, giving time to make adjustments where needed as the work progresses.

    Thanks.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    I don't think an Alphabetical lineup is remotely comparable to a cable company re-arranging all their channels... btw when they do that it is because of bandwidth reasons, not to annoy you..
    Yes, I can see how changing HBO from channel 200, to channel 510 would effectively clean up all the bandwidth issues (facepalm) It is done because "someone new" is onboard and thinks it's a better idea.

    This same Someone New also goes to games and immediately says: Hey!! these portals are illogically setup, they need to be changed. Though all my years here, I have never met this "Someone New" that had enough experience in a game he's never played before, to complain about the illogical portal system. Please don't say this is a perspective of "someone new" coming into the game.. because clearly it is the perspective of a developer. Yes, change is inevitable. But must we make changes that totally disregard the vet players..

    Racktor, again: nicely put

    I personally do not like the changes already in place for regions. now I can manage to ignore those changes if you put the settlements back on the settlement portals in the cities. and I don't need to go to bristugo to find Heather or aubador, granite hills and the likes, if I can still access them the old way. meanwhile those who like it, can still use bristugo if they choose. You are just confusing people by taking the "organized" settlement portals and disorganizing them to simply make a new style with the same aspect in mind.
    Last edited by Malicore; March 27th, 2017 at 04:46 PM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    many of you are missing the ultimate point and that is that the system is illogical from the perspective of someone new coming to the game.
    So... have there been any complaints that the current system is confusing? Because I certainly haven't heard of any. I'm always in MarketPlace and New Player/New Player Assistance. I've never seen anyone ask "which portal do I take to go to Parsinia?" or "Which portal do I take to go to Mithril's Anvil?" Because it's generally straight-forward with the two major hubs and the rest of the world's portals largely sending you to a majority of places as well. When I WAS new to the game, I didn't have any problems with the portal system, I never had to ask about how to get somewhere, it either was extremely obvious with the description on the portal or it made sense on the map.

    Yes, I have seen people ask "How do I get to Kion?" or "How do I get to New Brommel?" in their first week of playing, but that type of question is essentially an ignorance of where portals are and less about not knowing how to use them. Once they know where the portals are, you stop hearing these questions.

    If the goal is to make the portal system less confusing to new players... attunements are the biggest hurdle for them according to what I've seen. People pretty easily understand how the portal system works, but get confused and frustrated when the location requires attunement, and at best, it's a chore for people. Honestly the top question about world navigation I see is "Where do I go to attune to ____?" Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't require attunement to places, but I'm just pointing out that the biggest problems for new players are not what you think they are.


    But to the larger issue:

    I see that you intend to have cities be regional hubs. That sounds like a decent idea on paper, but if you look at the way the world map is, it doesn't end up making much sense. Saying you can ONLY port to certain locations from a specific city seems very limiting compared with the current system. It removes existing functionality, and for what? A more tedious experience, as Racktor pointed out.

    We don't ask that you don't add regions in, we just don't want to be more limited than we were previously and lose functionality in what each portal does. As things are now, you CAN get to everywhere on LA from Parsinia, AND to other settlements and cities, AND vice-versa. Parsinia was never a problem until the blight delta came up that made it so you could only get to Parsinia from Bristugo and only out to Kion from Parsinia. We understand that you have a larger end goal, but we just want the in-between steps to keep their function rather than removing it.

    Adding regions could be a good thing in some respects, making sure that you can get to King's Cross and Central Valley from Dalimond in addition to Bristugo, for example, is something good a region could do.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Machaeon View Post
    So... have there been any complaints that the current system is confusing? Because I certainly haven't heard of any....

    ...I see that you intend to have cities be regional hubs. That sounds like a decent idea on paper, but if you look at the way the world map is, it doesn't end up making much sense. Saying you can ONLY port to certain locations from a specific city seems very limiting compared with the current system. It removes existing functionality, and for what? A more tedious experience, as Racktor pointed out.

    We don't ask that you don't add regions in, we just don't want to be more limited than we were previously and lose functionality in what each portal does. As things are now, you CAN get to everywhere on LA from Parsinia, AND to other settlements and cities, AND vice-versa. Parsinia was never a problem until the blight delta came up that made it so you could only get to Parsinia from Bristugo and only out to Kion from Parsinia. We understand that you have a larger end goal, but we just want the in-between steps to keep their function rather than removing it.

    Adding regions could be a good thing in some respects, making sure that you can get to King's Cross and Central Valley from Dalimond in addition to Bristugo, for example, is something good a region could do.
    My opinions summed up pretty well ^^

  11. #31

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Although some of the recent changes are welcome, (being able to construct a smaller building inside a larger) there have been many, changes that are not needed and are only confusing to older players. It's as if the people making changes have not really played the game for any amount of time. I didn't hear anyone screaming about the portals the way they were. New players have never said anything to me about confusing portals. If you want to fix anything, you should fix the rating system or the group system for bipeds which makes it so hard for us old ones to group and help newbies because we will take all of their XP away.
    AND: why create all the new mob names that we can't even pronounce or type? What's with all the apostrophes in the names? If you want to do a map search, it's lovely trying to type them in. Yo'u don't li'ke t'o re'ad or typ'e eas'ily? I should refer to my "How to speak Klingon book?"
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  12. #32

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Reading through most of the posts here (Sorry Guaran, yours is like a textbook for me, I'll try again later), I have to agree with many, the new portal system isn't particularly needed or wanted. There are more important things that need work to help improve the games experience, for old and new players. As the older players are the ones who help and guide new players, changing things that have been pretty similar throughout the games history is only going to hinder both.

    I can be fairly oblivious both online and irl, but I've never had issues navigating the portals, even when I first started playing. What has confused me is stuff like what Ming has described, why did the pygmies and ogres get renamed? I can't tell where any of them are without manually searching the map for their icons and hovering them. And group exp being hindered by a higher leveled ped helping you.. please work on that. I main order and we have few enough people to help, most all in the rating of 100+.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Portal Changes

    To all of those in this thread, I do want to direct you to Blight. It received a new Delta a few days ago which changed things around. I'm not sure if it's final but it addresses concerns listed in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverth View Post
    What has confused me is stuff like what Ming has described, why did the pygmies and ogres get renamed? I can't tell where any of them are without manually searching the map for their icons and hovering them.
    The reason is that the previous naming scheme, while logical, was extremely boring. You walk into the game killing Sand Beetles and finish the game, so to speak, killing Giant Fire Beetles. The renaming was to help give some interest and flair to the mobs so they at least don't sound like they're copy-pastes of each other.

    I'm pretty sure Ogres have the -kuk names in reference to the tribes they live in. After all, they are an intelligent species. This is likely what they call themselves.

    Fyakki are freakish monstrous bugs and have outlandish names to address that.

    I believe the renamed beetles are named in latin. Nix Beetle - Snow Beetle. Loricatus Beetle - Armor Beetle. Ulmus Beetle - Elm Beetle.

    There is thought in these names; they are not just vowel mashing.

    That being said, in the end, at the risk of appearing rude, I want to insist that arguing the renaming changes is beating a dead horse. They started seven or more years ago. That is half of the game's lifetime. It is very unlikely to change any soon.

    Finally, remember that renaming something takes quite literally 5 minutes. We spend an ungodly amount of time in comparison on new content (which helps bipeds level, by the way) and other improvements to the game overall. Just because a few mobs were renamed doesn't mean we did this in favor of working on the issues with rating. They are entirely unrelated changes, one of which taking five minutes and the other taking possibly months worth of design and planning.
    Last edited by Sarsilas; March 30th, 2017 at 04:48 AM.

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  14. #34

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    "That being said, in the end, at the risk of appearing rude, I want to insist that arguing the renaming changes is beating a dead horse. They started seven or more years ago. That is half of the game's lifetime. It is very unlikely to change any soon."

    I didn't take it as people asking for name changes, like you said that boat sailed long time ago. I took it more as people pointing out an example of changes that wasn't really needed or wanted by most of the players.

    Been wrong before though and maybe wrong again




  15. #35

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    thats what I ment Smaug!
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  16. #36

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    An interesting thread I must say. I don't need to repeat what most have said here about this change to the portal system. I don't think it is broken, personally. I would rather the developers spend the time used to implement this change on the new "Engine" for the game. Every hour spend on that is bringing it closer to us getting a new engine for the game. Is the time spent to make this change to the portal system taking away from working on the new engine?
    We have had really bad lag for more than 5-7 years and still got it bad when in cities or settlements or grouping to do battle. Some say there can't be anything done with the lag on the current engine. Then i say move forward and work vigorously on the new engine
    Maybe some devs need a break from working on the new engine and want to start doing other things. hehehe

    That's my "Rant"
    cheers

  17. #37

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    "I didn't take it as people asking for name changes, like you said that boat sailed long time ago. I took it more as people pointing out an example of changes that wasn't really needed or wanted by most of the players."

    Exactly
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    No problem and well said, Mali.

    I personally really like Elteria's idea if it's at all possible. It keeps things organised and helpful, but also doesn't restrict access to the rest of the world. A newbie will see "Oh, Lesser Aradoth Region" and stick to there, while an older player will look for other regions to zip out to.

    I really do not like the idea of constricting the world when many players rely on the interconnectivity of it. If new players kept getting lost in the portal system, then yes, I would be in favor of adjusting it, but there is no evidence that they are.
    Yep, I agree with Racktor. We've had a few new people join Order in the past couple weeks (yay!), and I have never heard them complain about the portal system. The moment they figure out how to reach Kion, they're pretty setup on traveling the rest of the world.

    Also, I understand the attempt to make changes for new players. That's great, we need more ways to keep players in. However, I don't think this is the best route to go about it, for all the reasons people have explained already. I think other changes should happen, but that's another topic in itself. If I had to offer a suggestion, I would suggest that the system be left alone and other regions be focused on more.

    I wish I had more to add, but Racktor summed up my whole thought process nicely.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
    I didn't take it as people asking for name changes, like you said that boat sailed long time ago. I took it more as people pointing out an example of changes that wasn't really needed or wanted by most of the players.
    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    thats what I ment Smaug!
    Quote Originally Posted by silverth View Post
    Exactly
    I was referring to this as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    AND: why create all the new mob names that we can't even pronounce or type? What's with all the apostrophes in the names? If you want to do a map search, it's lovely trying to type them in. Yo'u don't li'ke t'o re'ad or typ'e eas'ily? I should refer to my "How to speak Klingon book?" .
    Which is very easily interpreted as "stop changing names"/"i don't like the name changes" or variations of this.

    I only quoted Silverth because she actually asked the question of why it was done originally, but then I moved away from speaking to her directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
    I would rather the developers spend the time used to implement this change on the new "Engine" for the game. Every hour spend on that is bringing it closer to us getting a new engine for the game. Is the time spent to make this change to the portal system taking away from working on the new engine?
    I do want to clarify that not all of us can or do work on the Engine right now. It's a very technical thing. Us on the art team and others working on content have absolutely nothing we can do to help until the process moves along. Thus, we work on other things. Specifically, the person who redid the portal system had nothing else to do at the time.

    Just because other things are happening with the game doesn't mean we're all dropping the Unreal Engine to work on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keithron View Post
    [...] However, I don't think this is the best route to go about it, for all the reasons people have explained already. I think other changes should happen, but that's another topic in itself.[...]
    I would recommend you look at Blight, as I mentioned in my previous post.
    Last edited by Sarsilas; March 30th, 2017 at 05:27 PM.

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  20. #40

    Default Re: Portal Changes

    Thank you for your reply Sarsilas.

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