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Thread: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

  1. #1

    Default Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.


    I would like to talk to the community about the mechanics of using attacks and spells in the game. I often wondered where the bipeds take energy to cast spells and special attacks, they have no power source or limit, I wrote a ticket in this case, and I got some interesting answers on this topic, apparently in the early times of the game there was a heated discussion on topic whether the given limit should be added on bipeds as added hoard limit on dragons.
    I do not know these times as I did not even know about the existence of this game, however, I decided that this type of limit should apply to everyone, for justice the limit on bipeds should not have weight and act like on dragons to make it clear.
    In this topic I would also like to mention the individuality for dragons when it comes to the mechanics of using spells and special attacks.
    I was quite appalled at the change in the termination of the use of hoard for the sake of collecting fragments in fierry maw, how much hoard collects in the game, it is not very how to use it, a large amount is erased on the defensive (shield of gold) but much less in attacks .
    That is also why I mention that we are in a phase of change on character classes that should undergo some changes, one of the ideas for a change was the addition of creating ammunition to the crossbow in the crossbowman class,
    I would like to ask, however, why in 2017 the players were against it, it was then when the flame elemental ally and surtheim fragment ally were added, as it was a version for bip [eds and for dragons, for bipeds to use a special attack they needed create class 6 recharge cells, while dragons used their hoard limit, which was met with disapproval.
    I would agree with this idea of ​​adding created ammunition to a crossbow, if the dragons were allowed to use their hoard, while under pressure of disapointing, using hoard and crafting class recharge cells for using a special attack with ally, they changed to collecting lava fragments in fierry maw. remember that the hoard is a limit in itself, but you cannot lead to limit limits, no matter that now the hoard is more than before, it does not justify such changes as players still hit where the hoard is low 0 after years of neglect, the amount of hoard collected depends only on the player's determination.

    I wanted to put 2 topics in one, but you can treat it as a whole,the second topic was to be a sincere request to change the mechanics of using ally attacks.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    My thoughts I had written in Discord so far:
    Well one could say according to Dragons do use the natural magic of Istaria, which could be seen as being omnipresent. And non-dragons can't use Primal magic.

    In my thoughts, drawing magic strains the psyche of the one using magic. The more you draw magic, the more stressed your mind becomes. So there would be a natural limit, which might be higher or lower depending on the individual.
    Research Assistant Pharaxes Sphaerideion (started playing 2007-09-08, ascended 2008-06-15)
    Dragon Adventurer: 100 (2009-01-05) Dragon Crafter: 100 (prior 2008-06-04)
    Dragon Crystalshaper: 100 (2013-12-21) Dragon Lairshaper: 100 (2013-09-28)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteel View Post
    I decided that this type of limit should apply to everyone, for justice the limit on bipeds should not have weight and act like on dragons to make it clear.
    Then why add the limit at all? Why should we have a mechanic that does nothing just for the sake of it, or just to be similar to something else? We've already established that biped gameplay is different from dragon gameplay, so why should we change that?

    Now, if this mana system does introduce new mechanics, like we already discussed on the discord server, I'll be all for it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    Something tells me the source of power is the world around Istarians, since the reason they use cloth armor is to be more in tune with those magical energies. The limiting factor is the spell/ability cool down and casting timers, just like everything else. You can only release a fire storm or lightning bolt so often, or you'll burn yourself out.
    [09/29/15 22:38:24] General Reklar Plaguebearer surveys your corpse with a look of smug satisfaction.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    Not much more can be said now, everything was said on the discord, but in general the matter is to add some factor to the cast spells and special attacks on humanoid classes, mana, or some type of energy to be collected, something that has no weight, somehow justify using strong spells and attacks in the game, because I don't believe that only dragons would have this type of limits, no ideas about reducing casting time for everything on bipeds, dragons use hoard and also have a specific time limit to use again, except for bolts.
    And for the future I would like to ask everyone to respect the request to transfer the conversation, thank you.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    As for the hoard limit itself.
    Developers very often remind that dragons are different, different style of play, item use system, different style of levelling.
    In this case, focusing on the hoard, I would like to ask developers to change the use of breath of lava from flame elemental ally so that the limit can still be used, the class cells situation has improved, and the applied system of ammunition grinding for this attack is very onerous, since the fragments themselves have the same weight as the class cells, no one benefited from this change, as the order in this case was wrong, developers should first reduce the weight, then think about changing the rules.
    Sunburn is right that the topic is based somewhat on the changes of developers, but the stone rolls the stone from the smallest to the largest, and the aspect of using the power in the game and its source puzzled me as much as decisions made in changes, decisions incomprehensible to me.
    The use of special attacks with the help of the collected hoard was an aspect of individuality, but due to the fact that the community was opposed to the creation of ammunition for surtheim fragment ally and the curse on the dragon that they can use the hoard, led to a change from which no one took advantage of the fact that the fragments also have their weight, identical to the class cells weight, which were the bone of contention.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    What do you mean by hoard limit? There's a hoard cost, but no limit.

    For biped spells, the recycle timers can be considered the "mana cost".

    For Dragons, hoard is so easy to get, at least after getting to 100, that it isn't really all that much of a cost either.

    For the pet charges, I would argue to just remove them completely for all pets using any sort of charge. For those that require hoard, I think that is completely fine, especially for the hatchy pets that give dragon breath abilities. I'm not worried that some pets might come in a dragon version and a biped version and that the Dragon one has a hoard cost and the biped one does not.

    From a Lore perspective, one option to make this 'fair' would be for the dragon specific version to do say 25% higher damage. Then we can think of that as the added bonus damage coming from the hoard cost.

    But even if that is not considered appropriate by the dev's, I still do not mind the hoard mechanic or those abilities which have a hoard cost. Hoard does also offer passive benefits to armor and I believe also to Dragon breath skill (not 100% certain about that last one).

    Changing or removing hoard I would not recommend. For one, there's no point in such a big change at this point in the games' life.

    I also would not add mana to biped spells, not without removing all recycle timers. Then the mana pool becomes the "timer". But you would also have to do this for dragons, hoard would become the nearly unlimited mana pool, so crazy unbalanced. Mobs would also all have to get it, and then combat would likely take years to balance and iron out. So, bad idea to talk about adding mana... no thanks.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    No support here either for essentially the same reasons as Guaran stated.

    Making a comparison to hoard is also really bad:
    1) Hoard is plentiful, more than 50% of all items in the game probably supply hoard, though of course most are not made to add to hoard, but the option is there is what I'm saying. And there is a large number of hoard specific items that will give you a very nice amount.
    2) Ability hoard costs are laughable: let's take shield of gold which, as you state, 'a large amount is erased on the defensive (shield of gold)', it costs 1500 hoard if it is fully used up (3 hoard per 1 point of damage, 500 points of damage max). now let's look at it from a max hoard bonus dragon. 1500 is roughly 0.006% of 25.3 million. There are hoard specific items at tier 1 that give more than shield of gold would ever be able to use up in one go Proof 1 | Proof 2 | Proof 3

    Or even better, primal rebirth costs 5000 hoard, making it one of the most "expensive" abilities, oh no, a whopping 0.02% of my 25.3 million. That'd be the equivalent of having a Resurrect spell cost 0.02 mana if one were to have 100 mana max.

    Now of course I'm not taking into consideration dragons that aren't at max hoard bonus, but abilities also cost less when they're in a lower tier (Gold Rage starts at 100 and goes up to 3250), and I'll also refer to point 1 again hoard is everywhere even for low level players.

    If we were making comparisons of course, which you seem to be in this case.
    Not to mention the insane amount of work it would be for the developers to implement, balance, rebalance, and rebalance. There's better things for them to work on I'd reckon.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    I did not mention anything about cost reduction, although you presented it is correct, I agree with Guaran also, especially in one aspect regarding how to use special attacks, it was a mistake to give any limit on either side when it comes to using attacks from ally, this should not be It happens, dragons should be able to freely use the breath of lava with hoard as it was in the beginning, and for bipeds in the case of magma bombs it should be free at no cost.
    Adding this limit caused a conflict, I think it would be good to go back to the basic version and allow the use of special attacks assigned to hoard and for bipeds give free use without craft class cells or as it is now with collecting fragments at all.
    Therefore, please go back to how it was at the beginning by removing the aspect of collecting or crafting anything for a special ally attack

  10. #10

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    Nothing has appeared here on this topic for a long time, but I would like to mention something.
    In addition to dragons collecting hoards to generally use special skills in the game, they share the same time limit system for reusing these skills as other character classes in the game, which makes them have double restrictions when it comes to magic in dragons

    This gives the impression of a rather large flaw in the game mechanics, where other classes do not need any source and the only drawback is waiting for the skill to reload (which is something players often complain about despite the lack of any limit in this respect), but apart from that? that's all and you can't cheat the facts here.

    It's true, sometimes there were fewer hoards, then more (much more), then they cut back on hoard collecting again.

    But I'll tell you this, some people may not mind it, but this issue bothers me time and time again, you can collect tons of hoards in the game and have money for it, but you can also do the same with mana in the game, collect, collect and save for it thrown out

    the main factor is finally the balance of this game, because what I'm talking about now is one of the problems of this game in this matter

    Do you know why nerfing dragons is so annoying? because we already have two limits on dragons in the form of cooling down and using hoard to use the same nerfed content, the limit is placed on the limit and on top of the nerfing, it is very annoying and it is quite unfair, to put it mildly.

    In closing, I've had the idea time and time again that since dragons use hoard to use magic in the game... they shouldn't have a timer for that magic, 0 cooling down and use alot of hoard instead, but I know 100% that would never happen.

    Therefore, in the way of game balance...GIVE MANA TO OTHER CLASSES!
    give them a source to use the skills blight, nature, energy, life, and generally to cast magic

    And with these words, I end this topic.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Source of energy for casting spells and attacks, and their absence.

    and how Guaran said "I also would not add mana to biped spells, not without removing all recycle timers" Dragons have a hoard cost and a recycle timer to use magic, that's the problem, that's what pisses me off.

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