Anti-leeching -- a new way to get xp

[Enoeth]

Some time ago I had an idea on the HZ mIRC, about this way of making xp, so no one could leech again : The xp gain is determined on (and you only get bonus for group, and basicly if you do these you get a larger % of the amount of xp the monster gives): the damage you do on monster (get a x % of the total monster xp given normally) + the amount of healing you do in that time + the pulling of a monster from a crowd succesfully (scout) + the damage received by monster (this meaning that if you're the only one attacked by the monster/s, then you should receive more xp than they receive , and this could be a bonus xp for getting attacked) ......

Also, if it would be a lag problem, then what if the client (each group member) receives the info on the damage taken , given by each player and healing done, the client is used in the eventuallity if there is a group, and each group member's computer calculates the xp gained, bonus and percentaje, and sends it to the servers, and then in order to make things safer and error free, the servers take all xp from each members calculation (member calculates each member in group xp) and compares them to other members results, and the most close to eachother are declared correct ....

more ideas are welcomed ....

[phinius pegasus]

Cool...sounds great, I'd totaly love, even though some people would say the oposite of me :)...I hate going so slowly from likr lvl23-24-25-26...thats why I only pwr lvl now :)

[Daedra]

It wont work. The lag would be nuts.

[Dragonboy]

There is no way to prevent leeching...
The only way to effectively prevent people that have a lvl far below the mob and thus strikes only "misses" or "hit at 0 damage" from leeching is to grant 0 (ZERO) xp...
You cannot learn to fight or to kill if you cannot even hit what you try to attack...
And people that only just stand still during fights or lay on the sidelines and merely claim xp for something they never killed...

Of course it would make it difficult for the healers to get xp, but I am sure there is a way to give them as well eventhough they are not playing a fighting part during the battle...

[Korial]

You completely failed to take into account *every* aspect of mob control, crowd control, damage mitigation and party cohesiveness.

What's worth more? a 500 heal, or a stun that prevents 500 damage?

What's worth more? a root on one mob, and a kite on a 2nd (to keep it away from the main group until they're ready), or the healing required to keep up with the damage output of those two mobs.

Sorry, it'll never work. I say never, because Hz will never be about Berzerkers and Healers only (or Berzerker/Healer multiclassers).

[eollyn]

You completely failed to take into account *every* aspect of mob control, crowd control, damage mitigation and party cohesiveness.

Sorry, it'll never work. I say never, because Hz will never be about Berzerkers and Healers only (or Berzerker/Healer multiclassers).

That only means the idea needs fleshing out, taking everything into account. it does NOT mean, as i can see it, that it will never work.

The idea certainly has merrit, in my opinion.. Tho I am affraid the calculations being sent back and forth would create a lot of lag, as has been stated. That would have to be dealt with, in some way. As well as the -slight- possibility of client-side calculations offering a chance of some sort of cheating..

All in all, a good idea i think.

[Enoeth]

Thank you eollyn for your support, many have hit me against the wall like all did. This new xp way would make the game more interesting and more fun, this would mean that you really make a difference in a fight and would please both solo guys (no more leeching) and both the persons that want to group for fun .... and with group you could get more xp if you try hard and you would get from the fight alive with the healers help .....

And god no, it won't be only a warrior kind of school and healer kind of school, i said everything you do will be taken into consideration when giving your xp .... perhaps scouts should receive some extra xp percentaje on every hit ? like if a berseker gets 100 xp on a 200 damage , a scout should receive 100 xp at 150 damage ? don't really know since AE has all the data of the hits and those ......
It might work without lag, lag is due to high traffic and lots of computer usage .... and i don't think some simple ecuations might get a 3.6 Ghz server occupied, when that does billions and billions of calculations per second .... and the internet (if the ecuations are done on server) would only used to send the final xp received for each member ....

[Daedra]

Enoeth....the technical problems with this idea have been explained to you. Im sorry to say it but why wont you listen? I did agree in irc that theory is good, but practically it will not work. These calculations are not as simple as you seem to believe, and doing them for every single player on every single mob they do, and having the server keep up every time someone changes school so it recalculates their exp.....it wont work. The server could not handle it. And to try and get it to work sufficiently balanced for all classes...you cant! Each does differing amounts of damage, at different speeds, or no damage and only healing, or have multiclass abilities speeding up the attacks which are not native to the current school....start to see why it is much more complex than you think it is?? And many skills/ablities do not workcorrectly atm so it could not be taken into account fairly.

[Enoeth]

I know it's not easy, but it's possible.
Aren't we still in horizons for he still have hope.
Isn't hope the last that dies ?
I just hope Mr. David or one of the programmers sees this and perhaps talks this over, if it's possible with the current code and client performance, and server performance too :)

[Raak2]

You stop leeching by using the disband button. No extra time or lag needed for the extra programming. Problem solved.

One of the best things about Horizons is the ability to group with anyone (as in apprenticeship). You can group with the same people forever, no one gets left behind as in other games.

I believe we as players should take some responsibility in our game play instead of berating the Devs to add all the extra resource hogging, save us from ourselves, code to the game. Then complainbecause they didn't have time to fix what needs fixing or add something new to the game.

[Fireclaw]

One of the best things about Horizons is the ability to group with anyone (as in apprenticeship). You can group with the same people forever, no one gets left behind as in other games.

I agree... however, the rate of exp gain for players who can't really help out is too extreme resulting in extreme powerleveling. A low-level player shouldn't be able to gain 12 levels an hour simply by being powerleveled by max level players. To preserve the ability to group with anyone while at the same time killing abusive powerleveling perhaps AE could reduce the exp players get if the level difference is too extreme. A low level player could still gain exp - just not an unreasonable level of exp.

[Daedra]

I know it's not easy, but it's possible.
Aren't we still in horizons for he still have hope.
Isn't hope the last that dies ?
I just hope Mr. David or one of the programmers sees this and perhaps talks this over, if it's possible with the current code and client performance, and server performance too [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

*bangs head on desk*
Im sorry but this idea is not a good one. It is not possible to do with the current client and server performance....it would make it significantly worse!!!! Even *if* it were possible to implement it would take ages to get the calculations correct and for what? Significantly more lag and drop in performance? Your heart is in the right place but this idea wont work. Sorry.

[Crazyfingers]

I just dont understand the leeching jealousy thing. Obvisouly people are allowing leeching because the ones they are helping are friends, family, guildies whatever. Why do so manyget bent outta shape about it? If u dont like it, dont participate. I have helped many level, I enjoyed it they enjoyed it but if they dont pay attention and at least throw a few heals my way, Ill die and hence they die. Hunt is over and more than likely I wont take them out again. For the ones goin from 1-100 in a week, its their loss not mine. Noone's gonna go on a serious hunt with them, they wont know what techs to put on their armor, spells etc. Its the same as being in a group with a level 100 healer that thinks his uber mace is gonna be more productive in the battle than healing. They usually dont get invited back for many hunts.

As someone else stated this is something that the playerbase should work on, not tweaking the system.

Or an easier solution, get rid of the flies, fykakkis and tarantulas.Or put a level requirement on the satyr islands. Most wont agree with this because they are guilty of powerleveling on these same critters as the people they are bitching about.

[Laneth]

ok, lets step back and look at this. Lower level/low rating char have an exp cap per level. I have took low level guild mates out hunting with me and it took them about the same time to level as it did me. Most of the time the lower level power levelers already have one or more schools up high and have a horrid rating. So they need a little help thru some of the lower levels.

Something like this would take an extreme amount of time to plan, code and test. This would take a lot of time away from getting some of the current bugs and awaitedcontent fixesdone. It also opens up a lot of new possiblilities for new bugs and exploits. Imagine getting grouped up and going out to hunt and everyone gets 0 xp for what you huntor everyone in group gets full xp per kill.maybe something worse, everyone gets a few times the max xp forthe varmit killed. and there are numerous other things that could go wrong. the first would have peeps all peeved and upset. the 2cd and last would be considered an exploit and get the game rolled back.

Personally i think a lot of new things should be held off on untill they get the stuff that has been wrong since merge fixed. many others and myself havn't had a trainer quest since merge. trade bug, health bar bug, the list could go on and on.

[Safire]

good idea but shouldent be implemented leaching is netural you cant kill it so stop fighting it lol and accept it you cant make dmg be all or stuns be all or anything be all (healers would get screwed(exp wouldent be right)up mages/druids would get all weired ect ect)

[cauri_order]

big problem here: If the calculations are done client side, what's stopping the player from tweaking the numbers that are sent? You do have a method to check/balance in that it compares to the rest of the group. But I usually group with friends, what's to stop me and the gruop from tweaking the data?


I think this is why most things (calculation-wise) are done server side. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Seikojin]

:o
The simple idea that xp gains need changing is a solid one with merit, but I think this method may not be the most effecient or balanced... True it would do alot in making the gains seem fair, but the idea needs to be understood, that the xp you get can be any number they decide to rate something...

You can have an extremely intense xp system where it calculates based on healing, damage taken, damage done, number of mobs, and various other influences (your groups rating versus the encounter rating and so on)...

Or you can have a simple system where its flat gains no matter what...

I think the current system is close to perfect, I just think the values it calculates need adjusting...

As it is you get less xp is an outsider damages your foe. This is good... it both awards those who would be passer bys, and penalizes those who bite off more than they can chew.

But I think the group gains bonus, and the multimonster bonus are the issues... Especially when the group is a few multi100's and the filler be afk lowlevelled players... The biggest issue araises when you say have 3 lvl 100 rank 100 druids and 7 lvl 20 rank 20 low levelled players fighting rating 115 mobs... The three druids can chain AOE and nuke the mobs easilly in mass quantity, so not only are they getting group bonus, but the multimonster gains shoot through the roof... The lvl 100's are getting a decent amount of xp although it doesnt matter, but the low levelled players are banging in thousands of xp per kill, when they shouldnt even come out there... 10 lvl 20s cant really take a single lvl 115 mob...

I think the bell curve for xp gains should penalize the group and multi monster gains as well, and it should drop off if you cant damage the creature at all... This is obvious and a glaring example, but I believe you will never damage something that is 30 levels higher than you... or 50 levels higher...

But this is all speculative... wed all need to know the games algorythm to truley understand its faults and flaws...

[Uther Blade]

ok, lets step back and look at this. Lower level/low rating char have an exp cap per level. I have took low level guild mates out hunting with me and it took them about the same time to level as it did me. Most of the time the lower level power levelers already have one or more schools up high and have a horrid rating. So they need a little help thru some of the lower levels.

Something like this would take an extreme amount of time to plan, code and test. This would take a lot of time away from getting some of the current bugs and awaitedcontent fixesdone. It also opens up a lot of new possiblilities for new bugs and exploits. Imagine getting grouped up and going out to hunt and everyone gets 0 xp for what you huntor everyone in group gets full xp per kill.maybe something worse, everyone gets a few times the max xp forthe varmit killed. and there are numerous other things that could go wrong. the first would have peeps all peeved and upset. the 2cd and last would be considered an exploit and get the game rolled back.

Personally i think a lot of new things should be held off on untill they get the stuff that has been wrong since merge fixed. many others and myself havn't had a trainer quest since merge. trade bug, health bar bug, the list could go on and on.

Well when you are right you are right.
I had to brush up on my advance calculus book to understand all this...[|-)]

Enoeth, your heart is in the rights spot(?)... (err your an elf I have no idea where it is)... [;)]
Bottom line, people power leveling has no negative connotations to you as a player in the game, you play your way others play theirs, and you can't stop folk from being themselves, Look have fun and pray that the Gods at AE keep the barge afloat for the minor fixes to happen... ie... Dragon lairs, Dragon Claws, Ancient RoP, and for us bi-ped folk, raising the cap level.
Now have an ale or elven wine and enjoy!! [;)]

[snickel]

Hmm -- this sounds complicated....

It seems that the most simple way to prevent leeching (--> never group with leeches) is not workable...

Okay. How about this: A lower lvl gets only xp (any xp) if the member of the group that kills the mob is fewer than 5 lvls higher than he/she is.

Could that work?

[Ruath]

Okay. How about this: A lower lvl gets only xp (any xp) if the member of the group that kills the mob is fewer than 5 lvls higher than he/she is.

Good idea, but I have to agree with the few people who actually said it should be the responsibiliy of the players to decide if power-leveling is what they really want!

I like the fact that I can group with higher level characters and with lower level toons. It makes delivery of items I have made for my fellow guildies much easier when I can follow an arrow to them because we are in the same group.

We need to really focus on the player's responsibility. And I can admit to having helped out and being helped out by other players when it comes to leveling. But I try not to make it a habit.

When there are new players to the game, it is much easier to group with them to show them various aspects of the game. But it is also important to have them learn some things on their own. I have met many level 20 - 30 dragons who didn't even know that there were trainings they needed to do every 10 levels until I showed them. That's unfortunate, but after I grouped with them on a training task or two they saw that I was more effective because of the trained abilities I had (such as spiked scales, instant heal, and dragon reach) and that made them want to do their's.

I happen to like the fact that we can group with all levels and learn from the higher leaveled people and show the lower level characters a thing or two [:D]