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Thread: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    For me the ravage is hitting much better than before. Plain tooth&claw attacks might even be improved a bit.

    I think if you always were hitting spiders 75% of the time, then you were bugged Dragoniade, now you are playing on same field as the rest of us.

    Also, the point Amerelium brought up about the Debilitating Spider Venom also probably playing a part. Take a healer along for nothing but cleanses, you'll see the difference.

    Things are much better than they were.

    Guaran


    p.s. How about that Council of Elders :)

  2. #22
    Irrilian
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    <tease> I find a rather amusing that all the Lunus are essentially going 'Hellians... meh... [laugh]'. Frankly I can see why we withdrew to Chiconis, if we hadn't we'd have quickly had our tails handed to us.</tease>

    Though it does disadvantage Hellians/spellcasters/whatever comparative to Lunus/melee/whatever this change does make sense, these are melee'ish type abilities after all. The real problem is that there is a distinct lack of abilities for those of us stubbon enough to go the Helian/Spellcaster/whatever route.
    So be happy for our Lunus brothers and sisters, just hope that we eventually recieve some corresponding abilities before the Lunus turn atavistic and decide to eat us. :p

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Nothing against the Helian line [:)] but I agree with Irrilian... The abilities were melee in action/damage so the feact that they are based off (or in some cases have always been based off of) Tooth and Claw is to be expected.

    I do think we need to get some primal based hoard abilities in the same style as Gold Rage and Silver Strike. 1 received via leveling (and leave Gale Wind ALONE!) and 1 received via quest. Both based off of primal ability and neither requiring the Helian path as Gold Rage and Silver Strike don't require going Lunus...and I like to both melee and cast [;)]
    Gliding Frost
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Prepatch instant heal healed me about 340 points, post patch its about 440 points (instant heal VII with about 1100 power and 1250 primal). Certainly a modest improvement.

    Spiked scales was doing about 60-80 damage to 120 fyakki even when they had harden shell up. Pre-patch it did zero damage.

    Wtih 1481 tooth and claw and 800-900 dex, I average 2 hits and one miss against mithril golems using gold rage. This is the same as prepatch. However, I also average the same against the 120 fyakki, which might be a bit better than prepatch.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    So be happy for our Lunus brothers and sisters, just hope that we eventually recieve some corresponding abilities before the Lunus turn atavistic and decide to eat us.
    You might be Helian but you are still a dragon.

    We won't eat you, expecially the dragonettes [H]
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvius
    I do feel that gold rage should be an automatic hit considering its cost though.
    I do not agree with this. The cost is there for the power of the ability. I did i think 1600 damage with one click. There needs to be a cost for that. I don't think any ability should be an automatic hit.

    Gold Rage is already a very good "save my scaley hide" attack. It doesn't need more.
    Cauri BloodBane - Order
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran
    I think if you always were hitting spiders 75% of the time, then you were bugged Dragoniade
    Agreed. Nothing changed with Silver Strike, and previously, Gold Rage and Ravage weren't connected primal but to nothing, so this shouldn't be a nerf to anyone.

    In the case of Silver Strike, there was no change to it, so if you're noticing that it's doing worse, it's because something else has changed.

    In the case of Gold Rage and Ravage, the odds to hit have increased, unless there is a bug before or after.

    Personally, I noticed last night while I was playing with Mithril Golems that Ravage seemed to do about the same, maybe a little better, Gold Rage was doing noticably better, and Spiked Scales were inflicting more damage than I was taking for once.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that this is with a dragon with nearly maxed primal, and almost nothing in T&C.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    sheesh i think we should stop with the helian /lunus crapola we gain 9 in each skill no matter what. We're melle with a little touch of casting ability. The difference for most dragons is just scales, asmany lunus don't bother wasting tps on t&C so there is truely little difference between the two.

  9. #29
    Irrilian
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by oluviel
    sheesh i think we should stop with the helian /lunus crapola we gain 9 in each skill no matter what. We're melle with a little touch of casting ability. The difference for most dragons is just scales, asmany lunus don't bother wasting tps on t&C so there is truely little difference between the two.
    True, though Path of the Helian still offers a bonus to either Primal and Path of the Lunus a bonus to Tooth & Claw etc?

    Helians can be warriors as much as Lunus mages, however the adult path bonus is a game statistic implementation of the preponderance of Helians to Primal and Lunus to Tooth and Claw.

    The fact that whether Helian or Lunus, Primal or Tooth and Claw specialist have to go down the melee route is more a consequence of the lack of potency of Primal and any Primal horde abilities rather than the concept of dragons as melee biased.

    This distinction may not be much of an issue to many. Id imagine that the dragon population is heavily wieghted towards Lunus after all. But a few of us at least would have liked to have been able to take a Primal route as was hinted at by the in game lore.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by cauri_order
    [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Vesuvius wrote:
    I do feel that gold rage should be an automatic hit considering its cost though.

    I do not agree with this. The cost is there for the power of the ability. I did i think 1600 damage with one click. There needs to be a cost for that. I don't think any ability should be an automatic hit.

    Gold Rage is already a very good "save my scaley hide" attack. It doesn't need more.
    Thats just the thing though. There are biped abilities that can do better than this for free. It also only does 1600 damage IF all three attacks land. Spending hoard and then getting a triple miss or a single 300 damage hit is a complete waste. It has a high hoard cost to make up for its low recycle rate.

    Not that it really matters. I hardly use the ability anyways being a primal user.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    I want to apologize about this issue. It seems I have been misled by another bug in this game.

    This morning, I went back to the server to fight the same monsters. However, this time I was alone, with no other group flooding my combats stats. I pulled some data and checked it again, and also located what made me believe I was hitting more...

    Often during the fight, I would cast Prime Bolt. Quite a few would go and the health bar would go down very slowly. But every time I would do a Ravage, Silver Strike, Gold Rage combo / trio, the monster?s health would go down by a huge chunk averaging 600 damage. Such damage, I couldn?t normally get without a high success rate. In reality, I was getting 5-6 misses out of 8. What happened? My normal damages were not being registered in time. But each time one of the 3 abilities would hits, ALL the previous damage would register. This gave me a false feeling that my melee were actually hitting.

    What make me realise that is, this morning, I was fighting another Fyakki. My health was getting low, at 350 or so. I cast Instant Heal. The timer starts to decrease, and my health stay unchanged. I keep fighting, get hits and my health still doesn?t update. When the Fyakki finally died, my instant heal get cast, with practically no change in my health. The conclusion: there is some really bad health update latency going on. The Health changes seem to be triggered by some event, rather than being constantly updated.

    So, I decided to filter my logs after realizing the real number, and not the number from the bugged health bars (mine and the monsters).

    Before the change:
    Tarantula: 11/69 or 15%
    Fyakki: 70/118 or 60%

    After the change:
    Tarantula: 9/42 or 20%
    Fyakki: 4/8 or 50% (I only had time to kill one to test).

    So yes, the actual numbers were actually lower than what was visually displayed.
    I can also see a ?small? increase with the tarantula, but not the huge increase I read other people claim.

    So I was wrong and I want to apologize.

    HOWEVER, this brings another bug into the game: health feedback. It is not normal to get health update by burst. This makes combat really inefficient and frustrating. You think you?re safe, when the health bar update and now you?re near death, unable to cast your breeze before you had already 2 abilities / spells in the queue.

    And it still doesn?t justify Lunus, aka Tooth and Claw, to get EVERY keys abilities.

    Tooth and Claw:
    Gold Rage (hoard fuelled, fast recycle, Debuff)
    Silver Strike (hoard fuelled)
    Ravage
    Determination (Primal roar counterpart)
    Dragon Adventure?s Edge
    Claw Mastery ***

    Primal
    Dragon Reach (single attack, long recycle, no debuff)
    Galewind (single attack, long recycle)
    Spiked Scale
    Primal Roar (Determination counterpart)
    Snarl (debuff for Tooth and Claw)

    Neutral
    Bite (should be Tooth and Claw no?)
    Drain Strike (should be Tooth and Claw no?)
    Staggering Howl
    Tail Whip (should be primal, since spiked scale is, aka body attack)
    Dragon Gift


    As you see Tooth and Claw get the big slices of the cake. Helian get only 2 attacks, with low recycle and single hit (Galewind and Reach). Lunus get plenty of multi attack, some with debuff. They even get a delay modifier (Claw Mastery) while Helians still get one of the longest delays in all spell casters. The only good ability is Spiked Scale, as since the last patch.

    All warrior classes (Lunus included) get some sort of multi-striking abilities, while the wizards get some sort of multi spell casting, EXCEPT the Helians.

    I think it is about time Helians get some consideration. Nearly all new dragons choose Lunus because it?s easier (less craft, even with the rewording, since it?s only a word change and not a quest fix, which is still not working as it should). They also get the best ability. Give a reason to player to follow the Lore and to RP without grieve.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireclaw
    Prepatch instant heal healed me about 340 points, post patch its about 440 points (instant heal VII with about 1100 power and 1250 primal). Certainly a modest improvement.
    While I am not sure if it holds true for instant heals (never tested) most heals use focus rather than power.

    AE/TG need to add a primal based attack comparable to GR/SS for helians its been needed for a long time.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!



    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    All warrior classes (Lunus included) get some sort of multi-striking abilities, while the wizards get some sort of multi spell casting, EXCEPT the Helians.
    Just as a factual note:

    Neither Wizard or Sorceror get a multicasting type ability and Guardian gets no multistriking abiltiy.
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  14. #34
    gopher65
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Question: do Gold Rage abilities go up to lvl 100 yet?

    EDIT:

    No priest classes (Druid, Spiritist, Shaman etc) get a multicast ability. Only Mage andConjurer get multicast (maybe one more that I can't think of).

  15. #35

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Don't start down that path gopher/pj they will just start the you can multiclass crap again
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  16. #36

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkarl
    Don't start down that path gopher/pj they will just start the you can multiclass crap again
    They? Who's this "they" you're mentioning?


    ...something about generalizations...

    The issue has been resolved, and that's that. We've heard from AE in a copy of a support ticket, and the original poster has stated that there wasn't really a nerf. That's all I need to hear, and this is the only post I'll be making to this thread.

    Good to hear that there wasn't a stealth nerf, though!

  17. #37

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    *steps on soap box*

    To all the dragons out there.

    You are DRAGONS. So Fight like DRAGONS.

    UseALL your abilities. Not just T&C or Primal ones.


    Here's a tactic you can use and that tends to work quite well (thousands of mithril golems didn't survive it :D):

    Cast range teched Prime bolt to get the monsters attention.
    Do additional damage with Dragons Reach.
    Cast Spiked Scales. (to do nice damage when mobs fire their specials)
    Once its active, the mob should be next to you.
    Now use Galewind.
    Then stun with tail whip.
    Now you decide what to do:
    Gold Rage (Boss Mob), Silver Strike, Ravage.
    Do more damage to stunned mobs (higher chance to connect all of them)
    Now use your AoE attacks like Gust/Barrage/Blast and the like.
    If the mob is still alive, use your weaker attacks or silver strike/gold rage if neccessary or throw in a heal or two.

    This should usually finish of any mob that doesn't do much self healing or other stuff like the wa mobs do.

    And it works. For Lunus AND Helian Dragons.

    *walks off crushed soap box*

  18. #38

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khoal
    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]evilkarl wrote:Don't start down that path gopher/pj they will just start the you can multiclass crap again


    They? Who's this "they" you're mentioning?


    ...something about generalizations...

    The issue has been resolved, and that's that. We've heard from AE in a copy of a support ticket, and the original poster has stated that there wasn't really a nerf. That's all I need to hear, and this is the only post I'll be making to this thread.

    Good to hear that there wasn't a stealth nerf, though!
    They in this istance is the people who claim any issue with any biped class has can be resolved by multiclassing. As you can see that is significantly longer than saying they.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    I don't know how people can find so hard to survive mobs.

    Sure, 3-4 mobs will fry a dragon but then, we are justrating 100, not 160.

    I have an high primal setup (to make spells) - thus I am not a big melee -and I lurk all days at mithril.

    With 0 armor strength scales with mining, smelting and scalecrafting I kill a golem 100 with no problem nor healing needed nor a single hoard special used.

    And it's easy enough I don't find it requires who knows what prowess.

    I even survive 2 of them if I use the breeze ability and they multistrike in separate times. I'll have to use 1 or 2 gold rage tho' in case I miss too much or they are both more level toward 100 than 90ish.

    With armor (t&c, str, dex) scales I'll survive 3 with no hoard usage. I'll just slam the breeze and spiked scales (they do 220 damage for me now) and area till they go toast. Using regular free melee specials as they cycle. I call this a "druid like setup".

    A dragon willing to act as a tanking mage is just a dead dragon. Dragons in that respect are more like blood mages. Good blast power (and yes, you'll have to use power teched primal and focus and dragonbreath / armor scales) but made of glass - stay behind a proper tank when playing mage.
    I tanked such pure Helians before merge and our groups ruled even in hard places like western deadlands.

    It's just all about not demanding to be uber in all fields and in all situations.
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    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  20. #40
    Irrilian
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikodemus
    *steps on soap box*

    To all the dragons out there.

    You are DRAGONS. So Fight like DRAGONS.

    UseALL your abilities. Not just T&C or Primal ones.
    (snip)
    A valid point, but I dont think anyone is advocating only using one branch of our abilities.

    We have a pool of abilities, the majority of these abilities play to the strengths of those whom principally use Tooth and Claw. It would be just nice to have some abilities that played to the strengths of those whom would like to focus upon Primal, the other rather ignored branch.

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