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Thread: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

  1. #41

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkarl
    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fireclaw wrote:Prepatch instant heal healed me about 340 points, post patch its about 440 points (instant heal VII with about 1100 power and 1250 primal). Certainly a modest improvement.



    While I am not sure if it holds true for instant heals (never tested) most heals use focus rather than power.

    AE/TG need to add a primal based attack comparable to GR/SS for helians its been needed for a long time.
    Hmm. Only have 748 focus buffed. And that primal based attack with hoard cost shouldnt be just for helians - it should be for all caster dragons (speaking as a Lunus who likes to cast)
    ________________________________

    Fireclaw Longtail - Chaos Shard - Ancient Lunus Dragon
    100 Dragon Adventurer / 100 Dragoncrafter / 28 million hoard

  2. #42
    Irrilian
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Consigned from General not only to Dragon, but to Dragon Adventurer. A thread cast low upon ill fortune indeed.

    Could we all share a minutes silence for the passing on of this thread. We shared too short a time with it, from its impetous birth to its enlightenment.... :p

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkarl
    Don't start down that path gopher/pj they will just start the you can multiclass crap again
    But but, you CAN multiclass. [:P]

    ..and especially for Wizard, Sorceror, and Guardian, since they are prestige classes, duh.

    ..and since you consider it "crap", let's nerf multiclassing! Yay!

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ

    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Dragoniade wrote:
    All warrior classes (Lunus included) get some sort of multi-striking abilities, while the wizards get some sort of multi spell casting, EXCEPT the Helians.

    Just as a factual note:

    Neither Wizard or Sorceror get a multicasting type ability and Guardian gets no multistriking ability.
    We get primal spells. A primal ability might be nice. I really don't like the idea of any attack "using" hoard. Maybe powered by the amount we have. In any case I heard from a dev back in October that hoard power spell/ability were in the works.

    Guaran <<-- very stingy with his hoard.

    Learn to fight without using gold rage or silver strike. You'll be a better dragon for it.

    edit:: Since someone dragged this thread out of cold storage I thought I would post an update to my generalized fighting style.

    I'm Helian but now that hoard is maintainable without constant Mithril grinding, I've moved some tp's into t&c and use gold rage and silver strike much more than I used to. I'd wager as a Helian I am just as proficient with t&c as any lunus. Now that I have max hoard and a little to play with, and use the melee specialsmore, casting is taking a backseat for many fights. It really would be nice to have more primal- spell abilities, maybe a special or 2. As dragons are now the melee fighting style is often the most effective.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    BUT YOU CAN FLY!!!!

    :P
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Why... YES! YES WE CAN!!! [:D][:D][:D]

    *neener-neener* [:P]

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    And you have fat arses...

    So glad setscale is present...even more so when ancients get here:P
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Though I am also Primal oriented and will miss the old Rage [:'(],this is hardly a nerf. It is more effective this way;for obvious reasons have more T/C accuracy and do more meleedamage when fully tuned to meleeand visa versa [though I do keep T/C high enough to maintain decent accuracy ].
    Even if no trains gotoT/C/Str/Dex; changeing a few scale techsfrom your current to T/C and then while hunting...flippingbetween P. Roar/ Determination if you feel like rageing should make a huge difference on your accuracy without hurting spell casting much or takeing much time in combat.
    I have no melee techs [ need to get a claw someday..lol ], 25% trained in T/C and by turning on determination I get at least 75-80% [ estimated/guess I have not done a log test ]accuracy vs stuff my levelto my lv +10. It may not be premium melee but it suppliments my casting quite well w/o takeing much away from casting potential.
    I do agree that the game is 'rigged' to promote more players going Lunus vs Helian [ Easier RoP requirements + false inuendo that Lunus is better at melee with both Hoard attacks being melee].
    Lunus and Helian are not classes or combat orientations; they are philosophical alignments. All Adult Dragons are the same class regardless of faction. Tuneing a Dragon to Melee isn'tturning away from Helian. The lore says: "The Helian, usually the scholars and mages among Dragons" justto point out that we are smarter than the Lunus [;)] . Nothing wrong with a Helian warrior. I would say visa versa but there is something wrong with Lunus period...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fireclaw
    Prepatch instant heal healed me about 340 points, post patch its about 440 points (instant heal VII with about 1100 power and 1250 primal). Certainly a modest improvement.
    The changeshould raise your instant heal averageby 157; assumeing that you have no trains/techs/crystals boosting your focus.
    Heal potential = ( Base_heal_range + Primal/10 + Focus/20 ). Maximum of 2xBase.

    Spiked scales was doing about 60-80 damage to 120 fyakki even when they had harden shell up. Pre-patch it did zero damage.
    Sweet! [:)] Now if only we could maintain spiked scales and refreshing breeze at all times [:O]

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    I personally believe that Gold Rage and Silver Strike were helped, not harmed by this update. The hatchling I used them with has T&C at basically a 10 per level ratio. I miss SO much less with it now. (Been raising that one for awhile, haven't seen the effect on my caster, butI hardly need to use them anyways)
    And I also think that Gold Rage should not miss. It's only a 'save your scaley hide' move if it hits. Otherwise, your scaley hide is dead if you use it in desperation like I do. It already costs so much thatI don't want to use it. I feared using it even more because I had gotten so many triple misses (before this fix, mind you).
    Silver Strike however, is cheap and should be able to miss.

    .:Malestryx:.

    Aegis Shatterer - Scourge of the Scourge - Blight's Own Decay

  10. #50
    Ebel
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    i don't miss with mine, they work awsome now

  11. #51
    Ebel
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikodemus
    *steps on soap box*

    To all the dragons out there.

    You are DRAGONS. So Fight like DRAGONS.

    UseALL your abilities. Not just T&C or Primal ones.


    Here's a tactic you can use and that tends to work quite well (thousands of mithril golems didn't survive it [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-2.gif[/img]):

    Cast range teched Prime bolt to get the monsters attention.
    Do additional damage with Dragons Reach.
    Cast Spiked Scales. (to do nice damage when mobs fire their specials)
    Once its active, the mob should be next to you.
    Now use Galewind.
    Then stun with tail whip.
    Now you decide what to do:
    Gold Rage (Boss Mob), Silver Strike, Ravage.
    Do more damage to stunned mobs (higher chance to connect all of them)
    Now use your AoE attacks like Gust/Barrage/Blast and the like.
    If the mob is still alive, use your weaker attacks or silver strike/gold rage if neccessary or throw in a heal or two.

    This should usually finish of any mob that doesn't do much self healing or other stuff like the wa mobs do.

    And it works. For Lunus AND Helian Dragons.

    *walks off crushed soap box*
    sounds like what i do in fights

  12. #52

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Of course dragons should use all the abilities they have access to. Anyone should.

    But you generally can't optimize melee and also optimize spells. Furthermore, in a round you have to decide whether to use a melee attack or use a magic attack.

    Furthermore, people like to be a bit unique. For myself, I always prefer melee over magic no matter what RPG I'm playing. Likewise in HZ, I've pushed my T&C as high as I can even if that means letting spells slide. I'm happy with that. When I go into combat, the main spells I use are the buffs I put on myself before the combat began, and maybe a grazing winds to facilitate my melee attacks. Otherwise, most of my attacks in a fight are melee attacks. Sure I COULD waste a round here or there on spells, but I usually don't.

    It would be a good thing if they allow dragons to customize themselves a bit. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Yes I hope they have magic hoard attacks, but they better be comparable to the melee hoard attacks with comparable hoard costs.

  13. #53
    Jhaniss
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Weird, you must have realy crap Chaos Warrior cause i wack them fast with lvl 58 Cleric. Maybe that's just your skills that are screwed.

  14. #54
    IcingDeath
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    It is true that Dragons are divided into the 2 classes helian and Lunus. The Helian been the more spellcasting class will of cource have the same hitting ability as a spellcrafter. the Lunus of course being the warrior part of the class will of corse be more accurate with the rages. I'm pure lunus and my gold rage hits a lvl 100 mob for around 900 dmg per hit, normally I can kill one in a single rage, but of corse thats because of my class, the problem for Helian dragons is the fact that there is a large gap in the spall casting abilities. There really needs to be more variety in the types of spells that dragons can use and that will actually give a spell casting dragon better chance in battle with out the need for physical attacks. But as it is right now a spell casting dragon, like any spell caster, should not try and rely soly of physical attacks (i love watching mages try to beat up a mob with a stick).

  15. #55

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!



    And in response to the above, the bigger problem is that for the most part, playing an AoE dragon would be about as effective as playing a single classed spellcaster with no mutlicast (maybe wizard would be a fair comparison). It pales in comparison.


    More balance is needed between the two factions, by bringing up the helian through more potent spell casting capabilites.
    Twelvebagger
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  16. #56
    Rorix
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    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    I'm starting to believe that Tulga simply want every dragons to be Lunus...

    You want to do spells, then say Good Bye to the dragons best abilities:
    Gold Rage, Ravage and Silver Strike.

    Since those 3 abilties have been modified to use Tooth and Claws, they miss a lot more than before.

    I went to hunt spiders after the patch. Before, I used to hit 75% of the time, Gold Rage being the one missing the most. Now, I miss 90% of the time.

    Those abilities are now completly USELESS. Unless, of course, you choose to be a Lunus and follow the Lunus way, by putting EVERY training points you can into Tooth and Claws.

    So, if I get it right, you have to put ALL the points you can in Primals to be able to use your spells, and now you have to put ALL of the other half into Tooth and Claw....
    Ok. Why not remove the Strength, Health, Evasion, etc skills from the Training Points while we're at it.


    Giving us TnC should HELP us hit, not penalize us. Before the patch, I was able to hit. Not anymore. There is a problem there. ANd I hope it get fixed soon. Or at least, but those skill on Tooth and Claw AND Primal. The skill favorize Tooth and Claw way to much. Balance please.

    Now, I'll try to get some fun out adventuring, if I don't get too depressed and give up from the constant
    Your Gold Rage misses.
    Your Gold Rage
    misses.
    Your Silver Strike
    misses.
    Your Silver Strike
    misses.
    Your Silver Strike
    misses.
    Your Ravage
    misses.
    Your Ravage
    misses.
    Your Ravage
    misses.
    Your Ravage
    misses.
    that I am now getting,
    It seems for me being a lunus doesnt help either...
    i have max TP in tooth&amp;claw, 300 points in dex AND am wearing dexterity scales... when going for lvl 120 fyakki or lvl 100 wind golems i still tend to miss ALOT... its really kinda annoying to see a triple missed/dodged gold rage... *growls*

  17. #57

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    well, the fyakki and the spiders have crazy evasion, I thought everyone knows this ? It's going to miss.
    Nisse 100 Helian/Nissei 100 Lunus/SShiak biped (All on Chaos)

  18. #58

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    You will miss ALOT when hunting spiders. Spiders have a super high evasion. I am Lunus with alot in T&amp;C and I still miss them more often then I would like.

    Try other mobs, and you will see that you hit more often.

    Leviathan (formerly known as "Skald")
    100 ADV / 100 DCRA / 95 LSH Ancient Lunus Dragon (Order Shard)
    67 million Hoard...and rising!

    "I kill where I wish and none dare resist...my armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!" - Smaug the Mighty


  19. #59

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    Just to throw it out there, I've noticed that I've been missing a tad more than usual. It's almost gotten me killed a couple times. It may just be coincidence, but at the same time, it might not be. It is something I noticed, but haven't thought about untill reading this thread. Again, just throwing it out there(fighting the same mobs too, flame pygmies/ogres).
    Explorer 80%
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  20. #60

    Default Re: Bye Bye Gold Rage, Silver Strike and Ravage. Nerfed!

    *skimmed over it a bit.*

    Old thread! Anyhow...

    I remember Narokh and I boasted being able to slam undead things for 3k damage with our gold rage. We infact enjoyed it! Laughed our tails off.... HEALER!!!! *Bamph* Toasted... Granted hoard isn't something hard to get now days so using it isn't as bad as it once was. I even use gold shield now.

    For a long time I thought Tulga wanted everyone to go Helian with all the area spells and stuff =/ I kinda like using everything though, but my strength is my melee. I actually won't even wear armor scales. I wear strength ones, as did Narokh when he roamed this world *sighs sadly about his old long lost friend.* Ya we would get tared and feathered but usually we would win the fight in the end. Of course, now scales naturally have armor! So even better for me =) *wishing it were us*

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