AAA Searching for players: newbies tell why they quit

[Fren]

I'm not going to babble on in here, i'll just put the links to me saying my mind in other threads (and to hopefully stop dangit snapping his modstick over my head *grins*)

first: most recent http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=52759#52759

Second, my what happened thread: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=51101

Third, form descritions thread:
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=49072

There are a few more, but i'm busy at work just now and don't have the time to search for them.

The demoralizing things about most of these bits is that nobody seems to care about low level players. Quests were deleted before the new quests were made available, a trophy hunter was thrown in to try and fill that gap, but unfortunately doesn't give much xp, and fades after 3 quests to less than half xp. Not to mention that most people have one heck of a problem actually killing the mobs that the Thunter sends us to kill (my main char was an exception as he dropped from level 41 to level 20 to train KNOC).

Anyway, dev team, please have a read and help out the little guys a bit :)

[imported_Onnidrah]

Il try to help some new ones at New brommel @ Unity a bit

[Aamer Khan]

Smeglor...

Pass along a few more thing plesase.

These are the comments from more than one player, many are repeated with various wordings, but I am going to condense them down to just single statements. I pass these to you as constructive feedback. This is not a rant, or complaint. Just thought you should know these too.

"It almost seems like AE/TG want us to quit. Like they need us to for some reason"

"They only care about the players with 120+ AR, and don't care what us casual players say"

"If it wasn't for my Guild/Friends/Mate, I would have quit already"

"Everytime we get something that makes it less of a grind, they feel the need to take it away and make it harder. I could probably take it, if I just understood why"

"What do they expect? When they tell us something is coming, then give no updates, of course we are going to get pissed, and start to make wild speculation as to why they are silent"

[Damger]

I'm a relatively new player, couple of months. I was 6 days into the 7 day trial when I ran into and was recruited by a guild of super helpful players. If it wasn't for them and their knowledge I wouldn't be in Hz right now. I'm not a particularly social player and Hz is almost totally unsuitable for a solo playstyle. The main problem is not that there is a huge learning curve but that most of the info needed to advance is only available mostly from veteran player's heads. Thank you, Templars of Death, for taking me in. [:D]

Now, I'm not a newbie gamer. I've played computer based games since 1978 and MMO's for 6 or 7 years now. That said, here's the problems with Hz that I see.

The storage limitations and organizational tools for storage, outside of personal inventory, are totally ridiculous. The vault/house system needs to be revamped, capacity enlarged, and made more player friendly. The workaround for me to put a connie on my plot to use as a storage device is absurb but I did it. [:(]

The forms (prior to scribing)need to have much more detailed info available. As a newb, without older player support, I didn't have a clue what to acquire and why and when and where.

The same pretty much applies to spells. My main character started off as a scout. I didn't need to get involved in spells. Later I added druid to get to ranger and was advised to add cleric for rez. My guildies handed me spells and basically said, "Here, this is what you need". I took their word for it and carried on but at a total loss as to what and why.

The other day, during downtime and just forfun, I created a Mage/Scholar on Blight. I quickly found out that I didn't (and still don't) have a clue on spell progression for different classes. I used the scholar trainer to get tokens and immediately wasted them buying spells that I could maybe make and probably not use. There needs to be reference info (if not on the spells on the trainer) somewhere, maybe on a web site,that could be used to get a handle on, at the very least, what spells belong to which schools and lvl requirements to use.

Note: Just yesterday iordered the outdated guide to Horizons. I got very frustrated and a guildie told me that a lot of the info I complain about above is indeed in that book. I SHOULD NOT have to buy a book to get this basic info.

Like others, I also concur that finishing machines need to be included in the fields at the newb areas. The running gets very old very quickly. In addition, I almost quit the game the instant I needed a distillery in NB and NOBODY on Chaos at the time would tell me where one was or how to get where ever one might be. (I have since become an expert user of Pekka's Maps)

Weapons!! What weapons do I progress through for a particular class? As a noob, I didn't have a clue. There was very little available on the connies to look forand and no reference available to help.

Armor!! I ended up taking up blacksmith just so I could make my own bronze armor. There was virtually nothing available on the newb connies in a timely manner. The new npc's are next to worthless and way to expensive for a new < lvl 10 player. I regularly now go out of my way and dump a complete set of bronze armor on the NB connie just so someone (hopefully a newb) can benefit. I pray that somebody's newalt isn't snatching that stuff up.

I could go on and on but this is too long now. The point I wish to make with this is that there are many fundamental game systems that are mostly understood onlyby those who grew up with the game, probably from Beta. Those of us new to the game have only one resource, the older player's experience and knowledge. I have absolutely no problem with going out of game and collecting info to help make me a better player but if the info is not available, I can't do it.
Thanks for listening.

[LexDivinia]

I suggest removing 3 of the 4 newbie islands.

This would accomplish the goal of giving newbies the much needed groups as well as other newbies to learn with instead of entering a world with.....3 people...

I agree with this 100%!!! If all newbs were on the same island, they would be able to help each other learn faster than running around trying to figure it out on a mostly deserted island. It would also be more centrally located for the higher folks that enjoy going to the new islands to help newbs and recruit.

LexDivinia
Chaos, Divine Ruler of Lewdacy
100 Ranger

[imported_Onnidrah]

Yeah, Great idea 3 of 4 Islands gone that would make newbies easyer help and do other things and makes for Higher lvl players who want to help finding them easyer

[Pharcellus]

Well, I would say do't get rid of the newbie islands, just limit the choices from the tutorial gate to one of them for now. If and when we have a large upsurge in newbies, then add one or more options back to the tutorial gate.

Newbies can still go to the other islands if they want a little variety. I really love all the newbie islands; they each hold a special place in my heart, and I would hate to see any of them scrapped.

[Aamer Khan]

Great idea to trim back to one island. And no need to scrap the other 3. Just take them out of the portal lists. When the player population grows enough, put another one back in as is needed.

Wouldn't this be simple?

[Seikojin]

:o
If they dedicate more server power to them, yeah it would be grand and nice... I Would suggest NK or NV for the island... NV has a really nice looking sandstone quarry...

[Mydnyght]

You would think 1 island... alot of people there... that's asking for New Rachival, Augundell or Tazoon South or West to get a newer job because the lowbie island just became the laggiest

[Azuria]

We need to be able to say something encouraging to new players.
Too often I find myself saying, "You used to be able to _______ before AE changed it." I can't think of any time where I've said, "In the old days, you couldn't do this, but the game gods made it so much better/easier now."
(Yes, silos hold more, and it takes less bricks to make a walk now, but SO! Does a newby care?.)
We've made so many suggestions for game improvement that seem to fall on deaf ears, (or blind eyes?)..... I get the feeling that TulgAE is going to run THEIR game the way THEY want to, and by Jiminy, if you don't like it, then leave.
I'd like to say I'm wrong in that impression, but have seen nothing substantial to contradict that since they added the Road Bonus.

[Guaran]

New Vassarak was my starter island and bind point till my 30's I think ( Cheap teleporting.[:)] I was a poor dragon).

New Vassarak has a cool, scary graveyard. Some neat stone statues over a waterfall. And a nice trainer shack layout that looks so much better than the other 3 islands. It's a generally more artful and interesting island for exploring. New brommel has such a boring plain town.New trismius was boring too. New Koraliea wasn't too bad, explore to the west you find the snow and pygmies and wolves.

From the tutorial island just remove the other 3. From any other gate that has the starter islands, no real need to remove the backwards path to them. Even one starter island to the other. That pathway no need to remove. Leave areas to explore should they choose to.

Guaran

[imported_Onnidrah]

Yes, Aamer that is maybe an easy way to do it, Think New brom is an good place to keep coz their are usually the most New ones

[cattoy]

Nice to see some support for something other than HL content...

Some sort of in-game event that is all inclusive would be nice...the anchors and town attacks are a step in the right direction but they don't really do anything for the newbies...

perhaps there could be some sort of WA infiltrators/spies that are invisible/untargettable by high rating gifted that the newbies had to be rallied to attack...

[Seranthor]

interesting thought Cattoy, however, beginners are looking for a way to gear themselves and get a foothold into this world, not an immediate life/death struggle with the WA.

Some of the most voiced reasons for not staying with HZ as a newbie.

1) I have to run to town all the time to process xxx into a finished item,
-- reason, AE found it a smart idea to remove finishing machines from the resource fields.

2) Lag

3) Tutorial and picking up the learning curve needs work.

[imported_Onnidrah]

Maybe the Tutorial island needs an change to

[oluviel]

something that would also attract and keep new players is loot

Gems and blighted equipment

I know gems are awaiting new technology tobe possible or something.

Remove the decay from blighted, keep the negative stats and make 100% positives on them more rare.
Next make them span every lvl and off more than just wa mobs. An arbotus could easily drop one as they could have swallowed a wa mob.

I know there are more underlying things that make this game unappealing to newcomers,but believe me, for the masses loot is and always will be one of them. All i have to say is evercrack, nearly 100% loot oriented game.
If i have to deal with lEWWT crazy kids to see this game not only survive, but grow i'm all for it.

[imported_Onnidrah]

More unique items would be cool

[LaughingOtter]

Nice to see some support for something other than HL content...

If all goes well, on Tuesday lower-levels will have one more quest they can do. My quest, 'Priscilla the Shoulder Parrot' should go live on the 8th. [:D]

Aside from being excited to finally see it in-game (deep thanks to Dangit, Manga, & David for the oppertunity!), I'm including it in this discussion because there are some doors opening here which hopefully will have an impact on attracting & retaining new players.

First, my underlying assumption since I read about the contest is this: the quest contest and the implimentation of the winning quest are a proof-of-concept test. The number of responses, the quality of the submissions, and the community's response to the winning quest would heavilly influence the question of player-created content being incorporated into the game in the long-term.

Player-created content could be a great selling point for attracting new players and retaining them. More importantly, it gives the community a sense of involvement, frees up a small measure of designer time, and, depending on the frequency and volume of player-created content being incorporated into the game, allows us to help make Istaria a rich and vibrant world.

Players of all levels like quests - it gives one purpose, a sense of accomplishment, and of course a reward. Tasks will do in a pinch, but they are very limited. I've been DMing tabletop campaigns since 1978, and from that perspective, I differentiate quests and tasks as follows: a task requires one or two single deeds to be completed, is freestanding, and involves at most two NPCs. A quest is a series of deeds and/or tasks connected into a coherent story.

We have a great many tasks - dragon tasks, trophy hunter tasks, craft trainer tasks, town marshal tasks - the list goes on. Tasks are not bad, but they are inherently repetative and unsatisfying in the long run. Any dragon will attest to that.

Seikojin has proposed development of an automated system for players to set up tasks (for which the player provides the reward) and implement theminto the game. For example, a player might put a large amount of cash or itemsup as the prize in a race, and then define the course as a series of waypoints which thecontestants much journey to. The first person to the finish line wins the items the organizer provided. On the good side, this proposal allowsmembers of the community to hold scavenger hunts, races, and contests (Iron Chef Istaria - assign point values to differentfood types and see who can get the most points in an hour..) that are not possible (or at least very difficult) to objectivly judgeat this time.

The down side(ignoring abusive or offensive content& exploit scenarios) is that the event creatormust provide the prize. A new player with a scathingly brilliant event in mindwill probably not be able to provide much of a reward. The event cannot be repeatable, because the event creator would have to provide an unending supply of prizes.

Seikojin's proposed system, I feel, would best serve as an event manager. It would allow large guilds or server communities to organize & executeguild recruiting fairs, new player tutorial hunts, mass attunements, and so on. It would provide one more tool for makingnew players feel welcome and involved.

Quests, however, cannot be implemented without oversight. Because the quest script modifies existing NPC dialog, spawns monsters, and is capable of creating items, cash and XP from nothing,there has to be an editorial review procedure.Boundries should be clearly established beforeany new quests are solicited - no references to drugs, overt sexual content, or use of profanity, for example. Once a quest is accepted, any new art assets have to be created and new NPCs and items have to be added to the DB. Then the actual testing starts... An automatedformatting & submission utility would be very handy, but obviously automated implementation, without review, is not workable.

So, how does all this help motivate new players to stay for the long term?

In order for the player-created content system to be meaningful -to attract players and keep them interested - there must be rewards which serve to renew interest in participation. A slot machine works the same way by giving just enough cash, just often enough, to keep people playing on the hope they will strike it rich NEXT pull. These rewardsdon't have to be elaborateorinherently valuable - a title, a special shoulder pet, a funky plot decoration, a sash worn over their armor. Something that new players will look at and wonder about. Something they will ask about. Something that givesus anopening to encourage them to learn about the world, experiencewhat it has to offer, and do their best to leave their own lasting mark on our beloved Istaria.

[Vahrokh]

An update...

It's a pretty long time I am suggesting to place some "explaining" NPC around for newbies. This game is definitely big and complex and the same people who play pretty well in other MMOs will be clueless here.

There's definitely need for directions, easy and clear ones.

Look at my simple "NPC" in action. It attracted people even before I activated it and they kept asking me loads, loads, L O A D S of the very newbie questions we listen from newbie guildies. But those who arrive at being in a guild are not all. Many get lost before having a chance.

Anyway here it is:





Notice how I tried to make a sort of speaking "Herald / Consigner", that would overcome the harsh limits the connies have in keeping item for newbies.
I make a load of tools and once I am done with Kion and the 4 newbie cities, their respective consigners disallow me putting more. At the same time I am still full of basic tools I won't be able to distribute. I cannoteven place one item for kind, much less the 4 or 5 I should be able to place not to have to return 3 times a day (= few will bother with this). And then I could place spells or weapons which are needed too. But the consigner won't allow me again since it could not even get the tools.

Second limit: saying newbies the obvious, the necessary. To join market asap or one of the public chats and a guild. Nowhere is explained that you have to join a chat or a guild and how. It's the basics of a social game, but they don't know how to enter it, they are pushed away.

Tangible, heard all days and sad enough proof: the comment of a newbie about the terse and surely insufficient information (it's not like I can spam tons) given by the game facilities:



Summary:
A deep rethinking on how to introduce players is needed, possibly beyond creating a new isle or removing 3 of 4.

The beginning is hard and they will feel like lost, in an immense, pretty empty, voiceless complex world.
It's time to imbue some warmth in this game. And this for rating 1 - 200.