Observations on were wolves

[evilkarl]

Like many I went to werewolf Island when I was able to login after this last patch.

When I started fighting them I noticed something odd. Other than the fact they can use Ripclaw I and Ripclaw II which both seem to have a super short recycle time leading to an almost perma stun if there is more than one.

What I noticed was these <80 mobs seem to have absolutely no problem what so ever hitting me a Level 100 Spirit disciple with 1300+ evasion. The miss rate was roughly <5% of all attacks. Now I'm pretty sure when I was <80 and hell even at >80 I had a miss rate way higher than that. I heard someone in marketplace say using Forest mist and obtaining 1500+ evasion they were still being hit a great deal as well.

While I realise that mob skills have been adjusted up to make them more challenging how the hell is someone at an even level meant to fight this AND why is a monks main form of defense (not getting hit) constantly being undermined.

Since the "rebalance" of mobs, Evasion has remained useless unless it exceeds about 2000 which is not possible without A racial ability or a newly modified class ability. When can we have our primary method of defense back?

[Drevar]

Unfortunately, since the biggest draw of the game seems to be the ability to multiclass to infinity it is also the basis on which mobs have tobe balanced. If monsters were balancedagainst sayevasion, anyone who took monk to 100 just for kicks (sorry about the pun) will be just as good plus have all of thier other damage, heal, and nuke abilities. By making Evasion "work" it wouldn't just make Monk viable, it would supercharge every other player who leveled it "just because", throwing the balance way off.

Until schools are reworked so that each one actually means something and is not just another set of numbers and abilities to add on top of the pile, people are just going to have to get used to needing to have good evasion, big weapons, heavy armor, healing, and powerful magics all at thesame time.

Drev

[HratLi]

Just an observation. I went out with some guildies to take on some Purple spiders and grouks the other evening... I eventually ran into an 'oh cr@p' situation and out of reflex I hit SpiritForm... Fighting one Angry, 2 purple spiders (NOT breeders), and a grulet, I was promptly stomped into the ground. I have had to consider that at 3000+ evasion, I still got hit about 10 times by these 4 mobs in about 4-5 rounds well... Evasion doesn't really mean anything anymore.

-HratLi

[imported_Ssilmath]

Ok, seen the 'Evasion don't work" thing too many times now...

Here's how to fix it:

Start by lowering mobs attack skill dramaticaly, so that evasion is once again a factor...Then use armor to cap evasion...in no armor, there is no cap at all...in Cloth armor, cap evasion at 1200 or so (Need a monk to give good numbers, these are ballpark)...Cap leather armor at 1000, cap ring/chain at 900 and scale/plate at 800...Now, all you who whine about people being uberpowered if they have high evasion and are wearing plate will be happy, monks will be happy, and people in the heavier armors won't see a difference

[evilkarl]

As a Monk we wear leather under your suggested figures we would be capped at 1000 which would not help us in anyway shape or form as at present with 2-300 more than that (or even 1k more than that) we still get hit.

Cloth - uncaped
Hide/Leather - 1500
Ring/ring - 900
Scale/Plate - 800

Might work

Although I would suggest adding monk/disciple specific (non masterable) abilities to boost our evasion above our current. Maybe a 120% boost or more in the form of a passive class ability.

[Stranyr]

The Werewolves didn't seem to be that much of a problem for me (although I was fighting them as Sorcerer so they didn't have much chance to perma stun me as I was doing that to them).

I found little trouble killing them, their Magic D isn't very high so I rarely missed. I am sure they would be more difficult for me to melee than to kill with magic, but then, some mobs are much easier to melee than to kill with magic.

As to the armour issue:

Rather than a cap, a penalty might be better.

For Instance:

Cloth (no penalty)
Leather (5% penalty)
Ring/Chain (10% penalty)
Scale/plate (15% penalty)

That way people that have spent TP's into evasion aren't as penalized and it's visable throughout the tiers of armour.

(you would need to be at Least level 80 to see the proposed cap as a penaltyin plate and from then on you would suck :\ )

Then give monks a passive skill (non-masterable) to remove 5% evasion penalty

This would also allow for some new techs to be introduced that reduce an armour's penalty by a percentage (on 3 pieces by 1%, on 6 pieces by 3% on all pieces by 5%)

Choosing to go with hard caps is very difficult to tweak later, with % penalties it's somewhat easier :)

[Kulamata]

The werewolves are 70-79. Why should they be balanced to deal with heavily multiclassed ratings >100? The heavy ratings should of course deal with the WW's readily. If the devs are trying to prevent that, that means that the ww's are not true 70-79, so areoverlydifficult for the xp given.

Tier VI mobs should be balanced with Istarian m-c ing in mind, as that is the likely match-up.

I can't tell about the werewolves , as the WW's are not terribly difficult for me. I don't know if the stuns are of very brief duration, or if the Crimson Scourge jewelry is making a difference, but multiples arenot much of a problem.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

I'm rating 129 and I can tell you I fought there as 100 Knoc earlier and witht he stuns 1 is ok 2 is a challenge and 3 your constantly stunned. Any more than 3 mobs and you might as well run because there's no chance. I'm also 100 cleric and from the time the fight started until they killed me I couldn't get one attack or heal even insta heal off. Umn something wrong with a rating 129 not being able to attack once against 3 werewolves in my opinion.

[evilkarl]

Good point Stranyr % based are much better and 25% for plate sounds good to me.

[imported_tjl]

It seems the new policy is that all mobs should have stunning powers, as well as debuffs, and DoTs, and outragous stats. Since the majority of the high level playerbase also can do these things, almost all mobs out there will have essentially the same attack style and abilities. Why just today, an elite spearman (that would be a melee character) used ranged attacks (prob throw spear, not really crossing the line there... but getting close) and also put a 1 minute or so mez on me (here is where it crosses the line), some debuffs and DoTs, and proceded to utterly devastate me. I have not been to the new werewolves yet, but I would't be surprised if they possesed other asinine abilities and stats that do not logically seem reasonable for a werewolf. My apologies for moving this post a little off topic, but it seems that this pattern of behavior for mobs is here to stay.

[evilkarl]

Well a normal spearman does posses some debuffs normally and throw spear is no where near the line.

But you are right all WA and most other mobs seems to posses stuns and other debuffs to counter the heavily multiclassed which is not the way it should be these mobs should be balanced against single schooled players.

IMHO if TG want to balance mobs to heavily multi'd people they should create a seperate landmass with a requirement to reach on 6+ schools + quest and have all the mobs balanced vs that kind of thing

The main populated (plots present) and the bulk of content should be for single classed chars.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Since the werewolves bit me multiple times tonight......can I request that I get the insta-stun ability once I become a werewolf with the next full moon? Quite an uber ability...

Glad they are in - but nearly uncampable and you can forget exploring the island solo (land bound) - I'm sure a few could do it but not 90% of the player population.

I hope this isn't the trend - will scare off anyone that joins the game and levels up their first toon to the 70-80 range.

Thanks for the new content - I really do appreciate that - just make it playable guys.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Actually, I kinda looked at it another way.....told guild we would need 5-6man teams to really explore it. I don't mind it is that hard, but I'm in a guild that has 20 logged in nearly every day - feel bad for soloist tho.

I've always felt they need a reason to group in this game - which was lacking. It seems that might become a reality. I actually thought tonight before heading out there..."ok he's going as a cleric, she's gonna be a spiritist and I'mthe healer - that should allow us to survive for some time out there."

Been a long time sinceI thought that in Horizons, its become nearly pointless "what you are" when headed out in groups - but tonight it really did matter. We were fine until we decided to try to explore and got a large group of WW following us all over.

[Korial]

Yup.

Stuns are the only thing that can kill MMC's, so you can bet that everything added will be doing that. Welcome to mudflation caused by rampant and unchecked multiclassing.

Unfortunately for TG, stuns turn the target into a spectator. Last time I checked, mobs don't pay subscriptions, and don't get bored of spectating a combat whilst wondering when they will get a chance to do anything.

I'm starting to get really... tired... of the design decisions being made recently. Not to mention the rampant multiclassing-hate...

[Dragonboy]

Yup.

Stuns are the only thing that can kill MMC's, so you can bet that everything added will be doing that. Welcome to mudflation caused by rampant and unchecked multiclassing.

I have to agree with you kumu... [H]

Finally the multi-classed bipeds actually have a mob they cannot take 5-20 at a time...[:P]
Welcome to the realm of the dragons... [;)]
The only mobs I can take 10 at the time of are I guess 40-50 lvls below me other wise they hit the crap out of me... [:S]

[Pharcellus]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Kumu Honua wrote:Yup.

Stuns are the only thing that can kill MMC's, so you can bet that everything added will be doing that. Welcome to mudflation caused by rampant and unchecked multiclassing.


Unfortunately for TG, stuns turn the target into a spectator. Last time I checked, mobs don't pay subscriptions, and don't get bored of spectating a combat whilst wondering when they will get a chance to do anything.

I'm starting to get really... tired... of the design decisions being made recently. Not to mention the rampant multiclassing-hate...

*shrug* welcome to our world. We've BEEN tired of it (multiclassing and its effects on game balance) for a long time. Personally, I think the island is great. Time to put the fear back into the game. Uberquilts don't like it. Wah, too ******** bad.

[PJ]

1.) Werewolves are bugged and using more tiers of Ripclaw then they should


2.) Mobs vs Players should be balanced by rating. Rating X player has 50% odds versus a Rating X Mob as its been stated is the aim. If you feel its otherwise, harp on the designer of the mob, not the mutliclassers or the multiclassing system.

3.) There are numerous ways to makesolo farming of mobs by players 50 ratings above them, impossible, unlikely, unprofitable, highly discouraged, whatever. '


Points 2 and 3 do not have to conflict if the mobs are designed properly.

[Korial]

*shrug* welcome to our world. We've BEEN tired of it (multiclassing and its effects on game balance) for a long time. Personally, I think the island is great. Time to put the fear back into the game. Uberquilts don't like it. Wah, too ******** bad.

That's funny, I thought my post was mainly about stuns, with only a passing comment about MC-Hate. Or do you like spectating an automated process with no user input?

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

Just adding that while I was there I happened to notice Fang the Tormented attacking a group of individuals. Then to my suprise his twin brother spawned with a group and started attacking me. Seems uniques are not so unique anymore. Two uniques at the same time come on guys.

[Kwinn]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Pharcellus wrote:
*shrug* welcome to our world. We've BEEN tired of it (multiclassing and its effects on game balance) for a long time. Personally, I think the island is great. Time to put the fear back into the game. Uberquilts don't like it. Wah, too ******** bad.


That's funny, I thought my post was mainly about stuns, with only a passing comment about MC-Hate. Or do you like spectating an automated process with no user input?

I have to agree with ya Korial, it seems some dragons want to take every thread and twist it into a rant about their pitiful state and take a few shots at the multiclassed bipeds.

Welcome to their world? How about join ours? Learn how to play your dragon, study the stats for techs and scales to determine what works, what doesnt, what enhances etc. You can bet most multiclassed biped spent considerable time determining what techs to put where, what tactics to use when.

I know more thana few dragon players with very powerful dragons, while not quite on par with a multiclassed biped, they still hold their own within their limits. And bipeds have limits too.

Large size, a billion hoard points and the ability to fly does not make one a God. Get of yer hobby horses, spend so time figuring out what you can do to improve yer dragon and quit expecting it to be easy. Building and playing a multiclassed biped may seem easy, in places it is, other places it most definitely is NOT. Why should dragons be any different?

Kwinn