Level cap for dragons needs an increase!

[Seikojin]

:o
So we look at dragons vs bipeds ALOT...
To make dragons worthwhile they have a multitude of abilities that bipeds get through multiple classes.

But after a while the bell curve of balance that is formed by this seperates and bipeds stretch beyond dragons in power and ability.

Suffice it to say a dragon at lvl 100 with all the obtainable abilities maxed with maxed gear is better then a single classed lvl 100 biped, but not as good as a multi classed biped who has at least the four basic classes at 100 (warrior, cleric, mage and scout).

In a idea i threw out before I said there should be a flat rating cap of 1000; theoretically allowing a biped to have 10 lvl 100 classes. And a dragon could have 1 lvl 1000 class.

But now I am comming from this angle. Allow dragons level cap to match a bipeds multiclass rating limit...

Seeing as the difficulty in the game is based off of ratings, this would allow dragons to compete by having level limits equal to a multiclass biped.

I think this would bring alot of things back into balance. Then again, this is without the benifits from ARoP, and not to mention the possability of super uber sets that are dragon only.

[refuse]

The only thing here.

A level 150 character compared to a rating 150 character, the 150 level character is tougher.
The Rating 150 chaacter can handle lower level threats better.

Lets say they raise the dragon cap (and only that) (I know your proposal is total levels and that is interesting), but not the biped cap. Then dragons of 150 would have 50 levels of TPs, 2 more tiers of spells, and would be alot more powerful then a rating 150 Biped.

So your suggestion makes alot of sense. Though many will say that >100 isn't needed. I think the "balance" should be put into >100, with retrofits to the pre 100 levels once the details are worked out.

[Pharcellus]

It's a nice, recurring dream.

Seriously, they're never going to consider something like this. They'll try to make up for the lack of anything to do post 100/100/100 with the ARoP and some quests, but ultimately, when they raise the level cap, it will be the same for everyone, and the same issues will remain once all Dragons are 120/120/120 as well. Our only hope is that our ability quests are all put in to 120, and a bunch more related to hoard are tossed in with the new hoard system.

[Goriax]

They need to provide ways for people to develop their characters once they hit the level cap. For bipeds it's easy -- multiclass. For dragons it's not so easy but things like the ARoP may provide one way. Whatever happens though, dragons who are maxxed out need a way to continue to develop.

EQ had their alternate advancement points which would be another way. There's probably other ways.

However it's done, it should be that a high level biped and a high level dragon who have both been played the same should be about the same power. The biped presumably by multiclassing (and possibly other things) the dragon by arop and other things.

[Seranthor]

4words.

Let dragons multiclass also.

[Seikojin]

:o
To make a dragon multiclass would be very impossible with the dragons in place now. They could do it, but you wouldnt want to go through it.

A multiclassed biped has maxed skills, a dragon at 100 doesnt... A dragon higher than 100 could be balanced so they match an equally rated basic four biped (mage warrior cleric scout combo) classes...

giving a dragon more levels would be the most cost effective and least damaging to the system in place IMO.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

During Beta Dragons did indeed Multiclass like Bipeds. Why thiswas changed made little sence to us either but they did change it.

[Goriax]

Yes, during beta dragons could multiclass. But the classes were exactly like biped classes. You had dragon warrior, dragon mage, dragon cleric, even dragon druid. Basically, dragons were exactly like bipeds except they didn't use equipment. That was never the design. There was also no hoard or hoard abilities.

If they make any change now, they'd have to move all the existing dragons over to the new system. Suddenly people would have to choose from all the biped classes and pick one. This would probably not be practical. In fact a lot wouldn't like it because dragons would loose their uniqueness. They'd be bipeds with a different model who could fly. Bye bye gold rage and gold shield. The whole point of dragons is they provide a unique gameplay experience. Making them just like bipeds removes it.

Finally, if you read DB's interview in Warcry a couple months ago, you'd see that multiclassing the way it's turned out is not at all as intended. It was intended that you could switch from one class to another depending on what you wanted to do that play session. It was NOT intended as a way to make you uber by allowing you to do everything. You could choose what you wanted to do during a play session, but you should not have been able to do everything at any one time. While I'm curious to see what comes of that and I hope they find a solution, it seems to me that if they're trying to extracate themselves from a multiclassing screwup, the last thing they need to do is make it worse by adding dragons to the mix.

They could make unique dragon classes of course, properly balanced so as to avoid the multiclassing mess they have with bipeds. The problem as I see it is that:

1. It take a lot of effort and in the meantime work on other things (rest of arop and lairs for example) would halt.
2. If it DID avoid the current biped multiclassing mess it wouldn't make many of the people happy who are currently demanding that dragons multiclass. That's because the reasonmany aredemanding it is they want to be able to do everything too.

The reason I think they should allow some sort of character development once you hit 100 has nothing to do with being uber. It has to do primarily with giving you something to do while letting dragons specialize and customize their abilities to some extent. I could see dragons being allowed to specialize in "prestige" classes once the level limit is raised to 120. You'd have to be ancient and level 100 to enter the class and none of the skills would cross over. If you're not in a school you get none of the abilities of that school unless the current school you're in has those abilities. If it does have the same ability you only get the ability at the level you'd have in the current school. In effect, you get absolutely no benefit of schools which you are not active in at the moment.

There are other ways they could develop characters. I already mentioned something along the lines of the EQ AA points. It might work like the following: As you gain additional experience past 100 you acquireadditional skill points which could be used to improve your skills just like the skill points you got as you raised your adventuring level.

Or there could be additional high level quests (although they really need to take more time then the few hours the first part of the ARoP required). There are probably other ways.What's needed isSOME way for additional character development. It doesn't have to be raising the level cap and it doesn't have to be introducing multiclassing for dragons. But there ought to be something.

[Bori Grimbattle]

However, before they go about raising the level cap for Dragons, placing and working out the new skills/abilities or anything else Dragon they should finish the implementation of the ARoP and Lairs and work on some of the outstanding issues in some of the other classes/races.

Everything takes time and it is time for dragons to step aside and let others be heard.


And oh yes.....I do have a dragon! [:D]

[Azuria]

I've often wondered why dragons couldn't harvest organics (trees and flax/kenaf/cotton...). At adulthood, they have the ability to change from 4-legged to 2-legged. [What 4-legged critter would a gnome change to? [8-|]
So why not allow Khutit forms to harvest organics? Heck, why not allow them to fabricate construction resources? They do have opposable thumbs in "human" form, right?

Some of my best friends have four legs. [}]

[Seikojin]

:o
Im not thinking short term here... I know there alot of other things I even feel that take precedence over level increases and balancing of dragons for the endgame. I feel bipeds need a TON of quests... Not to mention their own abilities need level earning through those quests like dragons do...

[Vlisson]

dragons should not gain the ability to multiclass

but they should get a higher lvl cap than the bipeds

and maybe some quests to choose (only able to do 1 from 5) with a unique power z.b. a heal, a berserk rage...

[imported_Onnidrah]

Dragons are able to fly. They are stronger then a non multi classed biped at same lvl whitout quests. Why do they need to multi class then ?

[Mandovar]

i have an Level 100 Dragon and no need to multiclass. But like mentioned above i would like a kind of quests to make my Dragon more uniqe in his way. May be just Helian / Lunus Quests for the beginning would be great so they are more different. I have an Lunus Dragon who makes more damage with an unteched improved Primbolt than with normal toth and claw attack...
And may be later they can bring that kind of quests to specialice a little bit more. The Idea of may be 5 kinds of quests to spezialice and only 1 to follow sounds great to me.

[Guaran]

We can "somewhat" specialize our dragons now, via training points and the scales and tech we choose to apply to them.

Our only choices are Caster,warrior, or a mixthough. Warriors get a bit of Zerker thrown in if they use gold rage alot.

I like the idea to be able to customize our dragons more, however the suggested classes (or the classes present during beta), seem like copies of biped classes. Who ever heard of a Cleric Dragon? Druid dragon? We are tough, magical creatures and the existing dragon adventurer allows for both alternatives via training points and hoard abilities.

If some new caster abilities show up (a caster equivalent to Gold Rage is rumored to be just around the corner), then the caster path might be more viable.

This dragon doesn't want carbon copy of biped schools.

We already have bits of the abilities from the various classes:
Staggering howl is -25% delay modifier, compare to Cleric Dispirit Foe (-50%)
Ours is only half the debuff, we never get the Area effect version.
Aoe's that seem nature originated: Tempest, Blast, Gust, Barrage.
These are viable attack methods when you have 2 to 3 tiers of spells, and can survive an extended period of beating from whatever it is you are hunting.
Ability that seems zerker-ish: Gold Rage. Can be used frequently at a price.

1 decent self gift: Dragons Gift. At least dragons have this, all the other class gifts never made it into the launch version of the game.

I want more things to do with my dragon, but multiclassing doesn't seem to fit they type of creature we are. More spell-type abilities would allow the caster to be a viable play-style. More "class-like" abilities, that could be gained via quests. I see players use all sorts of abilities like "Fusion Burn" "Burnout" "Multi-cast" "Perfect Spell" "Bezerker Rage" etc. I'm not even sure what they all do. More powerful versions of Staggering Howl, Snarl, AOE Tailwhip, seem to fit our characters better.

More levels or more quests do seem a more logical choice for dragons. More levels will = more training points to allow for more powerful customization. I suspect some dragons these days aren't very thoughtful in their use of training points.....

And if they do make multiclassing available, don't call the classes the same names as biped classes. I would rather the dragonplaying experience differed from the biped play experience.