Pure monks need fixed please.....

[aceracer24]

Well not suprisingly, no one has bothered to post a topic on monks so I suppose I'll be the first. Monks are slow...underpowered and just plain suck. I have seen some improvments usch as combat animation and wraps (which by the way...wraps take away from our damage output this is a serious problem). There should be no class in the game that hits as fast as a monk. ANd there should be no class in the game that should evade as much as a monk. All things being equal such as lvl, no training points used and identical armor ( compairable armor for those not able to wear leather) Monks should out hit any other class. Monks are suppose to be fast not slow hitters. Damage output should not be as high per hit as say, warriors, but we should be hitting 2-3 times per one of thier hits. This is not happening and very discouraging for me and obviously other monks. I've held out for 52 levels and have dealt with this problems in this class hoping something will be done about it. My patience is running very thin an i have since started looking for a new class thats not broken. Please....fix monk so I can feel good about using one. I'm not asking for major damage output...I just feel we should be evading more and hitting more often.

Wraps.....in a word...suck. I do far more damage without wraps then I do with them. This makes no sense to me. I can only assume they are broken?? I never expected to be able to do more damage with wraps. AS I understood it...wraps where only suppose to allow us to add sockets for crystals. But they actually LOWER your damage output. And they only do crushing damage ....why does this not work on golems as well as using energy buff? Again something else that makes no sense to me.

My concern is for the true monk..not the disiples as i do not know anything about them classes. I have refused to use those as everyone seems to be s spirit monk( the only class that seems decent for monks). All I ask is the devs relook at monk and actually play one with someone else of a warrior class same lvl and as even as possable...you too will see the major differance between them and how uneven they are.

[Menedaus]

To my understanding, handwraps replace the damage from your unarmed mastery, not add to it, so if your damage is higher with your unarmed mastery (and likely it will be) then just don't use the wraps. The wraps do however come in handy when multi-classing and your secondary class is 5+ levels above your carried-over unarmed mastery and you've got the skill use those handwraps.

[branden]

I also would like to see monks recieve some attention.

[hobojo]

One thing about attack speed: I believe there is a cap on speed for any attack/ability/spell (1 second, if I remember right). This wouldn't be much of a problem, except that with Gift of Alacrity and Monk's Inherit quickness, we hit this cap, while classes that use slow weapons continually get faster and faster without stopping, due to lower speeds on high end weapons and higher tier'ed gift of alacrity.

Another thing to note is the poor damage that results from getting 6 str a level. I have 1125 Base str (100 fitter + training points) and my damage is actually pretty good. Usually my normal attacks do 140+ dmg against non-golem mobs (even high levels), while chain attacks can go to 250+, and I even approach 500 on criticals now (!!!). But it's stupid that I had to level up Fitter so high just to have decent damage.

Another problem: Evasion and Armor. Warrior classes get nearly the same evasion, yet they get to wear metal armor. I believe that Dodge should not work if the user is in armor heavier than leather, and that there should be an evasion penalty across the board for wearing heavy armor (chain/ring/scale/plate). As it stands, the Metal-wearing classes get too much of an advantage in damage mitigation.

And dammit, give FlameD's 10 evasion and all Disciples 10 UA a level already...

[evilkarl]

At the high end of the scale we do attack 2-3 times for a warrior (with 2hs/c weapon) attack.

I think it should be faster once or twice a second and we would be set. However the min speed of 1 attack a second hurts us :(

Handwraps allow you to parry as well which is an additional defense thing giving us evasion, dodge and parry. You shouldn't see a damage decrease with handwraps as the damage values are exactly the same as that of unarmed mastery with the same delay. However if mage buffs are not stacking that is an issue.

I agree monks need love as do disciples. Monks should be the fastest most accurate attackers in game as well as the most evasive. While disciples should be next on all those things. The other melee classes need their evasion toned down a notch or the monks need a boost, I'm in favour of 12/level for monk 11 for disciples (10 for flame) Serker 9/level other melee classes at a max of 8.

[aceracer24]

Well I am certainly glad to see I am not the only one after all :P Sounds like most everyone agree's with me more or less about the evasion and speed.

Wraps as I stated are a concern for me as well. I have no problem if they didn't add damage. Our hands are damage dealers. Wraps where intended to allow us to equip crystals. Thats fine by me. At lvl 43 i was using cotton wraps as it was the best thing I was able to find at the time. They list dmg as 25-26 I believe. To me it looks like this is how much less dmg i do with them equiped. Just doesn't make sense but in all reality.....my main concern is evasion and speed.

You guys brought up some good points I didn't think about which just makes me more upset lol. Hopefully we can get our issues addressed by the devs one of these days.

[evilkarl]

The damage listed is the same as that of unarmed mastery. Real damage is that+strength bonus +unarmed skill bonus - damage resisted.

The only time you are better off damage wise not to use handwraps as a pure monk would be the first 5 levels of a tier as there is no level 1 handwrap.


On tazoon we had a large list of monk class related issues in a thread I wish I had a copy of that I might have to rewrite it all by hand.

[Tigris]

I'm also kicking myself for not making a copy of that. I have just posted a long rant about what's wrong with monks in general in the Stormy forums. I miss having us all in one forum.[:'(]

[hobojo]

I don't plan on using the Disciple forums. Having it all in one forum is much better.

[Iago]

Oh it's nice to have a forum to rant a bit about our monks again! Same old issues we posted 4 months ago: low base damage - not fast enough to outweigh it; evasion not effective enough to outweigh light armor; damage multipliers and mob armor reduction making the crit, multi, flurry pathetic...

On a positive note the wraps are doing what I suspect they where intended to do: letting us equip crystals and using parry ability. It was never intended to be a "monk fix" and certainly is not.

I get the impression that Evilkarl favours fixing monk through adding to our evasive abilities while Tigris (in post on STMD forum) seem to favor adding some strengh. It is rather unimportant how this is made though I have always favored fixing the low damage by changing the way our crit, multi and flurry works: after level 50 or so when we have enough chains to last a while we deal (almost) as much damage as another tank not using their big, damage multiplying hits. When they do we are however hopelessly outdamaged.

I suggest we continue building on Evilkarls excellent Monk Issue list (now on SPRD forum) as the basic problems are the same for all monks.

[evilkarl]

I reposted the monk issue list in the monk forum. Tis not my list, I just maintain it.

I want to see monks fixed. My prefered fix would be...

Raise base damage by 5-10 on each side.
Or
Double our attack speed.
Make us more evasive (12 monks/11 disciples/no one else above 8). Passive increases as well
Give us no less than 8 strength per level.
Turn Iron body passive and perhaps make it a line smilar to skin like <tree>.
Make all the class specfic abilities we have work and worth using.
Give monks and disciples some passive increases to evasion and unarmed.
As much as I use multi II/crit III I think that these should :-
a) Be replaced with a class specific abilities that cater to our difference in attack style
b) Asses if the user is using handwraps or UAM as their weapons and add an aditional multiplier based on delay.

After playing guardian I saw that these other melee classes get all kinds of passive buffs to help them and they do help them alot..why was nothing like this implement for monks disciples. It makes the classes look incomplete imo

My 2c

[aceracer24]

Awesome feedback guys. This is what monks in general need. I'd personally suggest using the pure monk forum for all monks. As all the monks suffer more or less the same and keeps it in one nice tidy location. Glad I posted...least now things are coming out about monks and our issues.

[HAG]

APPLAUSE!

I totally agree with Evilkarl's posted list.

Hell, it is totally abnormal that a Cleric (a passive Melee-class) gets 7 Strength and a pure monk only gets 6! [:@]

And - i understand that monks should be hitting less hard, but more often and could get used to that, but ...

WHY do our Special-Attacks SUCK too? [8o|]

We have same Timers as all other classes, so velocity is of no advantage to us!
I say: Reduce the timer for our specials _or_ put it to same level as other classes!

HAG

[Neon]

Something does need to be done. As a level 89 Monk using handwraps with Parry III and Unarmed III and a socket, I do about 60-70 damage to mobs my level, whether I am using the handwraps or just bare-fisted. If I use Power Style III and Nature's Fury (from druid), I then average about 80-100. If I have those abilities going, my best damage on a Chain Attack is around 200 (around meaning lower than).

Our specials really need fixed bad. If I am using blue stance and have Chain IX, I have managed to do close to 600 damage. This is amazing for me as a monk, but a warrior/reaver/zerk of my level can do 1000+ damage on a crit. Flurry is pathetic. I now have Flurry III, so I get 4 hits for every hit. However, I average around 25-35 damage per hit (for those of you who dont know, flurry gives you more hits but reduces the percentage of damage you do). So I end up doing about 100-120 damage per hit, which is about the same or a tad lower than I do on my chain attacks. Multistrike is nice, but it still does about half the damage of a weapon-wielding class.

As for our speed, we are NOT three times as fast as 2hs chars. I think my current delay is 22. I think the delay for a mithril 2hs weapon is in the mid 40s range. So that makes it more like twice the speed, but they do more than twice the damage.

I'm not sure what to do as a good fix. There are SO many easy little things that could be done. Raise our str/level, give us better evasion, better dodge, more damage on our mastery/wraps, more points into unarmed per level, etc etc.

Having parry because of the wraps is nice, but it does not nearly meet up to the inequity we have to other schools as monk classes. PLEASE devs, give us some love! (But not until you have the servers stable!!!)

[bright]

I do totally agree that hand wraps suck. i checked them out right after they came out without em my damage fluxuated between 10-15 was only lvl 16 at the time yea yea we all know dmg sucks, but with a hand wrap i no longer fluxuated i got 10 period what a rip, and the damage types should be looked into. Maybe they coul add wraps with a leather band with spikes for pierce damage or a much smaller version of the warcraft glaive for slash damage, or heck wolverine claws [;)]