A simple idea with big potential

[imported_Ssilmath]

The money flow has been alomst 90% from me to adventurers...

I charged 100 silver for Mithril Scale armor, 120 for Mithril plate...At most I'd make 1 suit a week...I ground mithril once, to buy a plot so that I could make armor better...700 silver is my normal amount of cash, most I ever had was 1.2 gold...For a while, I was paying 100-200 silver per form, so that I could make armor for people who needed it...I was down to 35 silver at one point, right before I go the last of the expert forms I needed, and have slowly been working back up...

Adventurers get far more cash from me than I from them...even in the long run, cause there are still tier IV and V techs to get, and those still sell for prohibitive prices...

It's not a crafter controlled game...those who prefer to craft are 100% reliant on adventurers for their very livelihood...

[Phillip]

Ibuy tech comps. STILL.

so do i.

I buy forms and techs. STILL.

awesome. prices are between 5-40s last i checked.

I buy hoardables. STILL.

wtf for? they don't drop enough?

I buy bottle caps. STILL.

you can't hunt your own bottle caps?

I buy unique set pieces, if anyone would be willing to sell me one.

uh...

The list goes on and the money keeps flowing.

hahaha yeah ******** adventurers making money off you.

I make more money farming the pawn broker or doing construction than I ever could pry out of an adventurer's hands. I have people telling me that selling a triple-vengeance-teched chest scale isn't worth the measly 25sp I ask for it.

dragons aren't known is cheap bastards for no reason.

What have you had to buy recently from a crafter, Phillip? Oh, yeah, your guild provides everything for you. Imagine that.

what does that have to do with anything? and yes i bought 2 suits from crafters the other day.

Yeah, guess what? BECAUSE the ADVENTURERS came up to us with "gotta have the expert spell!! gotta have the mithril armor!! gotta have the mithril weapon!! gotta have the mithril/marble scales!! gotta have the T4/T5 tech!!". Give me a farging break. I knew the market would saturate, but I still spent it. Why? Because I LIKE making stuff for people, especially my GUILDMATES. I LIKE being able to help them out. I LIKE the potential to make some money -- I did. Did I make a profit in the long run? No. Do I care? Yes and no.

"we" came up with this? dammit Zodias it's your fault you gimpy bastards! next we want is Admantium.

Uhh, I bought PLENTY of my T1-3 techs, comps, forms, lore tokens, IBMs, etc, from adventurers, so I don't know where you get off making it like it was a crafter smorgasbord.

you did? hahahaha

I was one of the highest Dragon crafters on Dawn for a long time. I made a LOT of spells and scales, but I made most of my money by adventuring or crafting to the PB. Bitter Pickle was hideously effective at producing large amounts of coin.

don't compare dragons to this shiete. T1-4 i know many biped crafters that monopolize the server and made 30-40g, owned huge plots in Selen and quit.

the point is real simple: adventurers have to run tothe crafter (whether guildie or not) every 5-10 levels for gear. THAT is how it was done T1-4 and even now. at least now we got the gimy Blight Equipment and some rares. back then all we could do was sell comps, camp the Pickle and bring comps/cash everytime needed gear.

yeah, add this decayable idea. i can see adventurers jumping for joy.

[Aamer Khan]

Ok. instead of bickering about the idea, let's get back on topic and gimme your suggestions on how to give the adventurers purpose, and an equal share of the pie.

I started off with the fact that it's a lopsided idea, so thats a given.

Digits idea of fillable crystals could really help out.

And it illustrates the dependancy issue well.

What could be added to the advanture side that could offset crafter dependency?

[PJ]

Think not of what to add, but what to remove.

Take the comps that are in game off Nadia and there's a craft dependency on adventurers.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

PJ is right - Remove comps from Vielo so there is that reliance again. THEN we can talk about item decay (by the way I'm all for it! - good topic Aamer).

Might I make a suggestion, I feel the idea of item decay would work if you "set the bar" on it pretty high. Here's what I mean, level 80 Adv should expect to take a week ortwo to gather comps needed to get their armor made - that armor should last for a month to three months, depending on how much its used.

I think the main resistance to having this in game is people don't want to have to camp to get stuff made; get it made; then start camping again to make sure they will have what they need to get it made again. They should be able to enjoy it without worrying about the next set.

[PJ]

On item decay:

Personally I have no problem, but then thats maybe because I can fix everything. But my only potential problem is permanent breakage. Decay is fine as long as things are infinetely repairable. That's a big turnoff for blighted equipment, why expend the huge amounts of effort to find the rare good piece, when its just going to eventually decay to worthlessness.

[Jayne]

Can someone enlighten me as to whats wrong with Nadia?

I am obviously missing something?

Jayne

[Phillip]

[:|]

[Phillip]

a question for Aamer:

what is the big potential?

[Pharcellus]

Uhh.. taking a big step to creating a REAL economy?

Not the Diablo II kind, ya know, like we have now.

[PJ]

Dunno if Diablo II is appropriate for what we have.

We have "crafters", farming crafted items/tannins/gems/etc onto t5 (or t6) pb's.

We have "adventurers" farming trophies, forms & techs (mostly pawned now), money dropping mobs, etc. The farmed tech comps are oftened PB'd too.


Farm stuff and sell it to an NPC.... We have a Harvest Moon economy [8-)]

[Gliding Frost]

Can someone enlighten me as to whats wrong with Nadia?

I am obviously missing something?

Jayne

I believe the theory is that because Nadia can provide all the comps (even if they're INCREDIBLY expensive) people go camp/grind for easy money instead of hunting for the tech comp drops.


I don't happen to agree. The only time I've ever had to buy comps off of Nadia were the ones that don't drop (myloc hag foot anyone?)and when I needed an ice bone splinter for a scale and a.) no one would sell me one b.) I didn't want to spend the next week killing greater skeletons to get one.\

Personally think the presence of Nadia is fine and even necessary in some cases. When you don't want to or can't hunt for those tech comp drops and no one wants to sell them to you, what are you supposed to do? Wait? That answer does NOT go over well in marketplace on Chaos.



As for degrading weapons and armor... I think it could work as long as it's always repairable. I didn't spend 3 months getting all of my tier 4 tech comps together in order to have to go rebuild them again [:S]

[Gliding Frost]

Or, allow items to decay but give 2 versions of repair...

1.) You take it too a crafter who uses orbs/bars/bricks/boards

2.) You use an item, similiar to the activators used for the banners from the dryad event line.

Example: your shield t4 is at ~50% damage, toss on 1 flame beetle and 1 fire beetle carapace, you're back up to full strength.

That way the adventurer has the choice to go hunt for the tech comp drops or to just look up a local crafter.

[PJ]

Nadiais the functional equivalent of having an NPC which sells all crafted goods and will even tech them for you if you bring the comps. Lets see them try adding that and not catching hell from crafters.

[Phillip]

"Uhh.. taking a big step to creating a REAL economy? Not the Diablo II kind, ya know, like we have now."

so making adventurers rely even more on crafters will make a better economy. got it.

haven't we lost enough subscribers?

[Pharcellus]

Dunno if Diablo II is appropriate for what we have.

We have "crafters", farming crafted items/tannins/gems/etc onto t5 (or t6) pb's.

We have "adventurers" farming trophies, forms & techs (mostly pawned now), money dropping mobs, etc. The farmed tech comps are oftened PB'd too.


Farm stuff and sell it to an NPC.... We have a Harvest Moon economy [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-43.gif[/img]

Well, Diablo II is "Go unto the world, loot it, and haul it back to town to sell it when you are full. Lather, Rinse, Repeat."

The only difference is we have two avenues to "loot the world", one of the combative, the other mind-numbingly tedious.

[refuse]

"Uhh.. taking a big step to creating a REAL economy? Not the Diablo II kind, ya know, like we have now."

so making adventurers rely even more on crafters will make a better economy. got it.

haven't we lost enough subscribers?

If all the comps were in game, and had a "decent" rate of drop (say 1/3-1/6) then the removal of the Vielo would require that equipment that was teched would have to have the adv get the items or bought from an adv.

With the Vielo in game, and the comp drop rates as they are now (low, to 0) we have the issues we have (better then no hags and other missing comps).

[Phillip]

i just don't see how adventurers, alreadyat every 5-10 levels needing crafters to make gear/spell/etc andnow, must pay crafters to maintain their equipment, as something wonderful to look forward to.

i am for item decay, don't get me wrong. but if that will come along, the entire redesign of the game economy must take precedence.

[imported_tjl]

i just don't see how adventurers, alreadyat every 5-10 levels needing crafters to make gear/spell/etc andnow, must pay crafters to maintain their equipment, as something wonderful to look forward to.

i am for item decay, don't get me wrong. but if that will come along, the entire redesign of the game economy must take precedence.

I'm of a similar mindset... kinda.

But a lot of players do not have to pay for everything now, since guilds/ good friends tend to take a lot of those costs away. Not all, but a good portion.

But item decay will take a redesign, yes. I do not want them "patching on" decay to the current system. It would be like knitting a third sleeve on a sweater or something.

[priestess_70]

As a newbie to the game along with my brother, niece, nephew and friends, the idea of degradable armour is scarey. Do you know how long it takes us to get enough money to replace the training equipment we get when we join. Although we also craft, it takes ages just to get the green tokens to buy the formula. For all of you who have been playing for ages, you forget what it is like to start, to know no-one, and often you are too busy to help out.
PLEASE DONT BITE BACK ... it is true, we do get the great people who come to NB offering assistance but many of u in big guilds just simply forget that there are new people joining the game each day....and working hard to get simple everyday armour for the small amount of money we have...to have it expire within a week, would be crushing...think long and hard.
We should not have to run around trying to find a guild to join so we can get help..but unfortunately this thread seems to be saying just that..join a guild and decaying items wont be a problem.