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Thread: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

  1. #21

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    Sarpedos,
    I'm truly sorry that you were not able to complete the work on the manor house as you had planned. I can understand the level of disappointment that comes from such a drastic change of plans.
    I'm happy to add your concern to our specific agenda.
    I am curious about a few small points, however...
    There are 23 world projects listed in this thread. To the best of my knowledge 3 are done. Was there no other world project that you could contribute to? Was the channel devoid of people that could assist you in finding another World Project? Were the remaining projects impossible for you get to? Wereyou on the World Projects channel, or did you juststumble across the work and very nicely decided to contribute?If you were not on the channel, was it because you didn't view it as necessary, or because you weren't aware of it? Did you voice your desire to do that work the following day in the channel? Was there anyone that you felt was an obstruction to allowing new people to build?(email me with that one please, noneed to flame here, even if deserved.)
    Either reply here, or preferably, contact me in game and I'll discuss the issue with you.
    I'll put the item on the agenda, as I said, but I would like a few more specifics on the problem. Your post have given me more information than the previous ones to go on, but still seems to define the problem more as a thing of perception, than a community issue. I'd like to have something a little more concrete to present to the community.
    Thank you for taking the time to share your personal experience on this. I hope that we as a community can help to make things better for your Horizons experience.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    Having been involved on Spirit in every major project along with our whole Guild and being heavily involved in getting the teams together to work on those projects I can see both sides of the issue. For one, it is very difficult to get a group together for a period of time to gain a sense of accomplishment. Too soon people with different schedules/rl time zones/etc had to log off sometimes leaving you without runners, placers or someone to process resources. Having a central place that coordinates these tasks is invaluable. I applaud the efforts of that group.

    One point to make that may address the concerns of some people in regards to the higher levels denying the lower or newcomers the chance/experiance. Back on Spirit we routinely went away from the norm of having the "Optimal" crafter from making boards/braces/timbers/etc or placing them to let a younger crafter do the job. Some may complain about it being inefficient but it did help them out which in turn helped out the server. At times we had 3 or 4 high level gatherers bringing logs to a young carpenter to help build his/her skills. It may have taken longer to finish the jobs but we managed to keep a group interested when all could gain.

    As was mentioned, these projects have been around for a long time so there is no urgency to complete them. So make sure the younger crafter gets a chance to build his/her skills. (you probably do so already but clarifying it will help)

    One other suggestion. I pushed before to attempt to have runners rewarded somehow for all the work they did/do for nothing to no avail. At times, back on Spirit/Satyr mines I paid runners myself when we had a lot of product to move and nobody wanted the job. I have been unable to login much lately due to rl stuff but if a pool was started for Guildleaders or anybody that is community minded to donate to then on projects needing runners that pool could be used to at least defray port costs. Just a suggestion.
    Bori Grimbattle --->The Dwarf
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    First and most important: NOBODY I've even heard about is a person I'd call an "obstruction to allowing new people to build". Since returning to the game I haven't even encountered a person who's not at least tried to be helpful when I asked a question. So to get around to your long question list, Tokoz, in no particular order...

    Yes, I've been in WorldProjects from the moment I learned about it, and only leave when I accidentally close my chat window. ;p As far as finding other projects, there a few that I knew about and could switch to (i.e. the Kion lighthouse... handy that it was right next door), more that I didn't know about but could have worked on, and some that are in places I've never even heard of, let alone know how to get to (Valley of Repose, Fabric Island, Abandoned Island...)

    Part of the problem, maybe just for me, is lack of play time... I'm not sure how many other lowbies have this problem, but I usually don't have the luxury of long play sessions. When I log in and find the thing I was working on finished, I have to find something else to do, pack up my gear, move to a new resource field, change schools if I want xp, do a load or two... oops, time to log out. I think I did mention something about "working on this more tomorrow" to one or two people, but I certainly don't want to be the type to say "waah! I need to feel useful! save work for me! stroke my ego!" etc. That's not fair to the other people who want to work on community projects, to say nothing of annoying. Sure, I could just squish beetles and build my house solo, but that's no fun...

    I believe I've had an inkling of an idea, meanwhile, and feedback is welcome... I notice those projects on the list in big red letters. Perhaps the team could suggest that higher levels take on the more challenging/dangerous projects while leaving a few easier things for low levels to focus on? If I were higher level I'd certainly rather spend my time slogging through Aegis forces trying to reach a guarded construction site than to run around the suburbs of Lesser Aradoth with not an enemy in sight. A few smaller, easy-to-access projects, like Grayling decorations, might be set aside for newer builders to work on, and when they finish (slowly, yes) they have something to point at and say "I did that!". Other ideas or opinions?


    PS. Given how far this thread has wandered, could we get a new sticky created for the sole purpose of listing progress on world projects, and leave the whiners like me to discuss on the regular board?
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    There's some good stuff there, that really helps me put a handle on the situation. There's also a good suggestion about having high and low level projects, although eventually I think you'd end up in the same boat eventually. We're going through projects so fast. :)

    The projects listed in red... I understand what C`gan meant by saying that one was in a very dangerous area and the other was pointless to build. Let me eloborate on that a little. You have a cloth factory in the middle of Tier IV gem golems and gems with no cloth field anywhere in site. Probably an error on someone's part, they meant to place a gem cutter, but got the wrong thing selected. But still, even for the high levels, not worth the effort.

    The bridge in red was one that I reconned, for C`gan. I reported the stats on it to him and then noticed a path nearby that I decided to investigate. I landed on one side of the incomplete bridge and walked this short path directly to the other side. No problem. It will take dragons to get the resources to that bridge efficiently and it serves absolutely no purpose. Easier to use the path around.

    Can we perhaps discuss the possibility of assigning projects to different tiers? That seems doable, although we might need to add a team leader for C`gan, as that would be a large administrative task. Perhaps a lower tier team leader and higher team leader, with C`gan watching over both?

    It seems to me though, that the same problem will occur, because a limited schedule gives people more time to finish tasks while you're gone. Gusi works the exact opposite times as I do. We often end up stocking the consigner with the same things, simply because I saw a need as I was logging, and she filled it while I asleep or at work...

    The best bet, as always, is to get more involved. Calmly express your frustration to your fellow team members. Maybe they've had similar problems and can help you brainstorm solutions. Feel free to chat with me online. Dialogue is always more productive than the BB.

    Does it sound like I'm avoiding putting this on the agenda? It should, because I am. I'd rather see the team find a solution and then come before the community to propose it, than have the team present the community with a problem and spend all our precious hour of meeting time discussing and debating it

  5. #25
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    I was told last night that the Kion Lighthouse is now complete.

    Also, thanks to Tsilaros doing some more scouting, I have more projects to post here tonight Dikaina lighthouse, Dikaina Artifact of Magic, and Grayling Lighthouse.

    Cedar timbers were added last night to Sslanis mine, though I don't think the cedar timber need was filled.
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  6. #26

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    C`gan,
    Please post that to a new thread and we'll get it stickied.


  7. #27
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    The Kion Lighthouse is completed. Tsilaros finished off the remaining Dim Sources and Bronze Sheets except for one unit yesterday.

    That latter part brings up a point. Especially for larger projects, it is sometimes not in the best interests for all who put effort into a structure to have it completed when they can't see it pop. If a small fraction of the team is on when the last unit is ready to be placed, I would suggest holding off on that unit until the others can be on to witness it being placed. Yes, there is always a chance that someone not associated with the team will happen by, notice that there is only one unit left, and place it, thinking that it was accidentally or incidentally left undone. However, it is unlikely. As for the team members, especially our newer, younger ones, it would be a welcome courtesy to have a chance to see their hard work come to fruition visibly as scaffolding turns into the finished product.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    I really love that idea! Almost like a ribbon cutting ceremony or something. :)

  9. #29
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    Ok, here's the result of a test put through to the World Projects Team (whether or not they knew about it).

    Back on June 25, a gauntlet was thrown down to the Team to have only those who gain experience for resources work them for the World Projects. Shortly afterward, the Aughundell and Mithril's Anvil mines with resource needs up to tier 5 were put in. A couple weeks ago, the team was handed the delightful adventure/craft challenge of the yew field outpost north of Harro. I am proud to report that our high-level crafters have performed admirably in getting the tier 4 and 5 content completed, as is in evidence in the project list here:
    http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=78442

    Now for the down side. As you look at the numbers of the current resurvey done last night, please note that the tier 1-3 resources are lacking. We also have higher tier builders who are lacking things to do with World Projects. Raising a single team for construction is getting difficult during the week, partly due to members' guild responsibilities, partly due to members' own construction efforts being diverted to their own plots, partly for other reasons. I know at least three of the tier 4 and 5 builders I've talked with are completely shut down because of this experience requirement and are waiting for new projects to open up. Tier 1-3 builders as well are having difficulty getting involved in teams because, quite honestly, there aren't teams forming up. Individual efforts right now are carrying the World Projects.

    To help remedy this, and at community request, I started pushing the Build-A-Thon weekends. We have our second one coming up at the end of next week. However, I would like to get all the builders involved in this effort. I would like to ask community guidance on whether or not to open up the lower tiers to our higher tier builders. Projects besides the four heavily-pressed ones are still needing completion. Adventurers have been contacting me on Selen-Balit bridge. And, to be truthful, I have some very depressed builders who want to ply their trades for the good of the community, but have been pressured not to. I will be bringing this up for discussion at the next community meeting and I bring it up here.

    Where does the Order shard community stand on this?
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  10. #30

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    Well as for the arguement that if they get no xp they shouldn't work on it, since application xp goes off of CURRENT skill, all you have to do is to equip the lower-tier tools and voila, you get xp again for applying.

    Honestly, some of these projects have been here since merge (and some from before merge, I'm sure). Unless it is a big event project, they aren't getting completed. It isn't that the lower-level crafters don't have the opportunity to work on them, because the opportunity is there and has been for a year on some of these projects. The lower-levels simply arent working on them. At least not in the numbers necessary to get the projects completed and it can be very frustrating to work on a project all by yourself.

    The community doesn't just subsist of higher levels or of low levels but rathers of ALL levels. And people of ALL levels should be able to work on the community projects without being harrassed by others for "stealing xp". You cannot steal something that does not belong to someone.
    Imayo, Preceptor of Obsidian Order on Order
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Announcements

    Mission First. Experience is a nice sideline.

    If the system of waiting on the lower levels to complete the lower tiers is not working, then annouce more on the New Player channel and if that fails, continue the mission. The purpose of having these projects in the game is NOT to give experience to players, there's plenty of plot work for that. It is to provide things to the community.

    Charlie Mike.

  12. #32
    Carsia Wolfsong
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    If you need anymore help with helping with anything on Carrying or being a runner of somethings let me know. I wanna try to help what I can [:D]

  13. #33
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    By all means, Carsia, we're going to need all the help we can get on this Build-A-Thon starting tonight and going through the weekend.

    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  14. #34

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    Okay Ive read nearly every single post in this thread and Im very confused.

    1.) How exactly are the WP team "stealing" experience from new players ?

    2.) Who are these "New Player Guides" ?

    I helped a little with the Sslanis Mine project. Being a low level crafter all I could do is make cedar boards. Lots and lots of cedar boards. Frankly the "experience" gained was very poor but I did get some xp. Imostly did it to help out.

    Without naming names the WP team did a fine job of getting my lowly cedar boards to another crafter to create the braces and getting them to the site and fitted. Probably not the most efficent method but... I did get some xp.

    I probably could have crafted buckets decon'd them and gained ALOT more experience. I probably could have reached a carpenter level in a few hours but then again I just wanted to help out. Gives one a sense of contributing to the society as a whole. Besides if I had gone that route I would have gotten even less experience for each board.

    From what Ive heard that project is complete. Players are happy to have it completed. Ill have to go see it someday [;)]

  15. #35
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    This is an old thread, one that I have attempted to honor in my time as team lead.

    When this thread was turned over to the discussion you read, the WorldProjects Team (under my leadership) was getting accused of finishing the projects, regardless of what tier the builders were, thus leaving no projects for lower-level builders. Personally, it serves as a constant reminder to me of the delicate balance I walk, given the position I hold as team lead. It reminds me constantly to look for people who want to build or gain construction classes or levels, to see if I can put together teams who all gain experience from the build, regardless of tier, and to keep me in my place, as it were.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for with "New Player Guides". There are either the player guides written elsewhere in the forum or possibly it could mean the New Player Assistance Team funneling new players interested in construction to the WorldProjects Team channel.

    You will note, though, that this thread was the reason we now have grand opening ceremonies.
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  16. #36
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    I think it's time to dispell a myth.

    Over two years ago, during a fiasco with community meetings, much of the WorldProjects Team went their own separate ways. Between then and now, many people have come up to me stating they found things out there that were not yet built. They wondered if they were new, put in recently by the devs. Unfortunately, those projects are not new. They have been in limbo with next to no attention paid to them.

    I have been told that people have believed all the projects were completed at the conclusion of the last meetings. I can honestly state this to be untrue.

    Though the meetings are gone, I do think we as a community still need a WorldProjects Team. I think we should still follow some of the original guidelines that have been passed down from team lead to team lead (No, I was not the first lead in this team, nor will I be the last, hopefully). I would like to encourage new players to stop in at the WorldProjects channel. It is a place to congregate and discuss the projects we have, set up teams to harvest, process, and place materials on the unfinished projects. It is a place for builders of all types to get support.

    For those who do not know what the WorldProjects are, I will reiterate.

    World Projects are defined as: "Projects which specifically are not associated with any particular person, guild, or plot." (Examples include the Elmnic logging camp, Selen-Balit Island bridge, Kion lighthouse, dwarven mines). These projects may include any building, crafting, or adventuring necessary and sufficient to advance the course of an Official (Virtrium) Event, open new territory for the free use of all Gifted of Order, or repair/rebuild publicly owned structures that will be open to all once completed. In the cases of machinery lacking for resources to be processed, the World Projects may also include an indivdual, guild, or plot structure deemed necessary by the landowners of the community and with full agreement by the person owning said structure within the lacking region. (By example, Kaaii's carpentry hall in Genevia during the period that Cedar's Cove did not have the woodworking bench). The World Projects team shall maintan an in-character chat channel for the coordination of any ongoing project(s). Those who work on the World Projects understand and acknowledge that this is voluntary effort and no reimbursement is made for travel, nor is any profit made by working on such projects.

    For those who are newly undertaking the construction classes (carpenter enchanter, fitter, mason, and weaver) and are looking for experience in building, the projects offer quite a bit of experience in the construction process. Many of the current projects are only up to tier 3 resources, most needing only tiers 1 and 2.

    WorldProjects channel and team are also available for the many dragon projects out there. We have dragons on the shard who keep the project listings updated here in the forums. Bipeds can gather the raw goods (except azulyte) and process those that are needed, as well as assist in hauling completed units to place (to a certain extent, since some projects do require flying to them).

    Please stop in and share your interest of rebuilding what the Withered Aegis has destroyed and making Istaria a more beautiful place for it's residents.
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  17. #37

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    HAHA! Ok, this is just silly.

    ONE person made 2 posts about being upset with the system, and everything fell to shambles.

    Let's recover, yall. Things need gettin done, so lets get to doin em. C`gan, I'll volunteer to help recon the world and see what world projects still need done, and I hope a lot of others will too.

    The WorldProjects chat is still around. More people need to go there, even if you don't want to do anything or help out at the moment, maybe you'll see an opportunity to help out and change your mind. If nothing else, you'll know what is going on and what is going up.

    I believe that it should be declared that this team is here to build first, level second. That is why it is only for public projects, because thems need built, and they need built now.
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  18. #38
    Member velveeta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    speaking as the ceo and chief bottlewasher of blight's wps, i can assure everyone that wps are a great way to level your construct skills if you are a beginner - the artifact of metal at selen needs 500 each of bronze and iron sheets and joints, along with another 500 steel sheets.
    and that is just the fitter work on one building!

    now of course that is the exception, but even a guard house needs fitting and mason work, and everything needs essence construct done. most settlements have multiple buildings (i believe dryart has like 5 large archways need building) that need working on.

    fortunately i can well afford the port fees to do these projects, but i think arrangements should be made for those volunteers to be reimbursed port fees, as hauling around disks full of bronze joints can get very very expensive on new/less rich characters. perhaps a fund or similiar to support those peeps. or a relay system of some kind - handoffs to porters or some such....
    you can't cast a play in hell and expect angels as actors
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    Let me know, I'll pay for it.

    I like that system, nice and simple :-P
    ~Lucient Dawn
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Order Shard World Projects Team Discussions

    Yay! Thread Necromancy 4tw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzunoch View Post
    HAHA! Ok, this is just silly.

    ONE person made 2 posts about being upset with the system, and everything fell to shambles.
    Uhhh.. nooo.. one person bellyached about something utterly ridiculous two and a half years ago, and was put into his place by several people who had been involved heavily in World Projects since the start of the game at the time. It had no other effect on the functioning of the WP team.

    Beyond that, there is ... other ... history related to the so-called "community" team at the time, and it was decided by the people who actually DID something that World Projects was its own autonomous entity, since it predated (let alone survived) any other community effort by anyone else. WP didn't balkanize within itself; it just remained an independent entity to avoid the stupid political crap that so often encumbers the various "community" efforts that come and go.

    Let's recover, yall. Things need gettin done, so lets get to doin em. C`gan, I'll volunteer to help recon the world and see what world projects still need done, and I hope a lot of others will too.
    I don't think it ever stopped. Except for the game going into "dirge" mode during EII's reign, WP was always working on something. Still a good idea to see if there is anything new not listed, though, so go for it.

    The WorldProjects chat is still around. More people need to go there, even if you don't want to do anything or help out at the moment, maybe you'll see an opportunity to help out and change your mind. If nothing else, you'll know what is going on and what is going up.
    Yep, still is. When I came back, I was glad to see some familiar faces in it.

    I believe that it should be declared that this team is here to build first, level second. That is why it is only for public projects, because thems need built, and they need built now.
    *shrug* doesn't matter what or why someone is here. If they wanna help because they wanna help, then fine. If they wanna help because they wanna level, that's fine too. Help is help. The source of motivation is unimportant. However, no one.. and I really mean NO EFFING ONE.. has the right to tell anyone else what to do or why they should be doing it when it comes to WP. Do it because it is fun. Do it because you can. Do it because you want to. Don't worry about why anyone else wants to do it. When we run out of things to build, there are PLENTY of other things that need to be built for players, and the devs will eventually put more stuff to build in for everyone.
    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

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