Information please?!?!

[Death-knell]

Well have met with nothing but silence so far.

With lairs progressing as far as they have could we please get some info on lairshaping? I'm hoping lairshaping is implemented close to when lairs will be released we've waited a long time.

[arseovrteakettl]

Internal testing?

[Death-knell]

Internal testing?

huh?

[Khoal]

From what has been said on IRC about Lairs and Lairshaping, we know a few things.

1. Lairs are on the internal testing shard (known as Genesis, I think).
2. Lairshaping will be a new, separate class.
3. Plots for Lairs will be identified with "L" (RCIL is RCI - Lair)
4. Lairs are not limited to two dimensions, but can also be dug into the ground. A lair with a small footprintcan stillbe a very deep one.

My guess is Lairshaping and Lairs will be released at the same time.

[Death-knell]

Thats what I get for not being able to access IRC at work.

But at last months community meeting on order the devs dropped by and DB made it sound like Lairshaping in general would be part of crafting like all other phases of dragoncrafting with the exception of a specific skill you would have to specialize in. And this skill would have to be raised up as a new skill.
My speculation from that would be you will have to specialize in metal or stone or crystals.
And if it is on Genesis and testing then they at least know how the skills will fall and such.

I just want to get a little info.

[imported_GhostRdr]

I wonder if they will link the lairs with the Arop. With the arcane knowledge of the ancients being brought back, it might be some questable knowledge or class to be able to make a lair. Just my .02 But hey I dont know anything, so dont go by my word.

[Death-knell]

Interesting concept, but I don't think they will. How would a non-ancient dragon make a tier 3 layer? Or are you saying that AROP will unlock some forgotten knowledge? That could be.

I wish they would make it so I could lair near my guild or even a guild plot. If you can dig down then all I would need is a mound with a cave entrance.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

Here's all I know about how lairs will work from listening in IRC (Don't quote me):

First off, dragons will get a new school to level. "Dragon Laircrafter" will be completely different from "Dragon Crafter." In a very crude sense, dragons will now be able to multi-class in crafting. The school itself is either already made or currently being made, and giving dragons a second craft schools the way Tulga wants to go. This does mean that a 100/100 dragon will not be able to immediately get to work on a tier VI lair, and any whining over getting something new to do as a dragon will be met with swift, brutal doom.

A new lair will consist of a single opening into the ground. When planning your lair, you will be able to attach a room or tunnel to that first opening at what is called an "attach point." Much like setting up a railroad track, planning a lair involves putting predefined pieces together at points of attachment to make various rooms and tunnels. Unlike a railroad track, a particular room or section of tunnel may have several different attach points in different directions, including up and down. Connecting tunnels may also diverge in different directions. Examples being crossroads or "T" junctions. Bipeds that wander into a lair and fall down a vertical drop will have no choice but to recall.

Instead of being able to build whatever structure you want first, like a biped plot, after being planned out dragon lairs will need to be "dug out" starting at the entrance. It makes sense, but a dragon will have to either build the most important rooms close to the entrance, or do a lot of digging before they complete a particular structure.

From what I understand the technology behind the lairs is complete. The method of planning and building the lairs is finished except for a few possible bugs I know nothing about. What is needed now is artwork for all the various tiers of lair structures. Right now Tulga has a serious lack of artist time, and that combined with the loss of the main lair programmer last November has been really throwing off the plans to get lairs finished and out to blight.


One more thing everyone should know. The technology of making lairs doesn't necessarily apply to just dragons and doesn't need to be underground to work. The method of using points of attachment to build structures would make short work of implimenting other types of racial buildings, such as dryad tree houses. (built the trunk, use attach points to build "branches" with storage and machines, etc)

Still no ETA on lairs. ETA's are bad, very bad. Being "on schedule" to deliver something by X month doesn't mean everything will go right. I think the best estimation on when dragons will get lairs would be soon?.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Wow that sounds excellent! I may have to sell my biped plot to get one of those. I guess there is no chance that you could have biped structures on ground level above the tunnels?

[Death-knell]

Thanks Hal. Thats the most info I've seen so far. Think I'll have to dig the whole thing out first. I like the biped traps [:P]

[Blue Hasia]

Still no ETA on lairs. ETA's are bad, very bad. Being "on schedule" to deliver something by X month doesn't mean everything will go right. I think the best estimation on when dragons will get lairs would be soon?.

dont know were you are coming from on that statment hal but in the real world Schedules and set dates are not only required but they also motivate the workers to get it done.... some of the most amazing things have been done under pressure from the every drawing due date...take halo 2 for example

[LaughingOtter]

Much like setting up a railroad track, planning a lair involves putting predefined pieces together at points of attachment to make various rooms and tunnels. Unlike a railroad track, a particular room or section of tunnel may have several different attach points in different directions, including up and down. Connecting tunnels may also diverge in different directions. Examples being crossroads or "T" junctions. Bipeds that wander into a lair and fall down a vertical drop will have no choice but to recall.

It's not so much a model railroad as it is a Habitrail - sized to fit an ancient dragon.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I'm curious about the boundaries of a lair.

1) Will a dragon be able to to dig beyond their plots boundaries or will the lair have to remain within the set boundaries of the plot and work itself around and down those? IOW, if a Dragon owns a 25x25 RCIL plot and begins to build his lair, can it extend past that 25x25 square area or will the lair be restricted in area by the plots size?

2) And how far down can a lair go? There HAS to be a set boundary floor otherwise a Lair would be limitless despite any LxW area boundaries.

3) So to go with my second question, will a new dimension be added to plots with the L signifier making them LxWxD?

4) If this technology is used in further racial housing such as a Dryad tree then again questions 2 and 3 apply only replace Depth with Height.

5) ALL of these things concidered, will we end up with plots with a LxWxDxH dimension making plots four dimentional?

Also...

6) I mirror Senkeleron's question about being able to have a plot with both Lair and Biped aspects having biped structures built around the Lair opening or will Lair openings equal the size of the plot it is being placed on?

7) Also, are new plots going to be added to the game to accomodate Lairs or will existing plots just be given the L designation OR will you do both?

[Blue Hasia]

LOts of good questiosn I would love see anwsered snow, especial 1.

and on a side note cooridents go x,y,z ( or in another order). some times when the games bugs up you can even see the gizmosin game on the plots and to show im not crazy here is another program that uses gizmos

[Fridlekh]

1) Will a dragon be able to to dig beyond their plots boundaries or will the lair have to remain within the set boundaries of the plot and work itself around and down those? IOW, if a Dragon owns a 25x25 RCIL plot and begins to build his lair, can it extend past that 25x25 square area or will the lair be restricted in area by the plots size?

From what I saw, you will be limited to the dimensions of your plot as you descend into the ground. 25x25 on the surface = 25 x 25 x depth.

2) And how far down can a lair go? There HAS to be a set boundary floor otherwise a Lair would be limitless despite any LxW area boundaries.

This is set by the devs when they make the plot. And yes, it *can* be virtually limitless in depth.

3) So to go with my second question, will a new dimension be added to plots with the L signifier making them LxWxD?

4) If this technology is used in further racial housing such as a Dryad tree then again questions 2 and 3 apply only replace Depth with Height.

I believe this was the plan.

5) ALL of these things concidered, will we end up with plots with a LxWxDxH dimension making plots four dimentional?

Haha, I imagine that if they allow for both under ground and above ground 'additive construction' that it will be more LxW + [Z range] not 4D, just 3D with an offset to the terrain.

6) I mirror Senkeleron's question about being able to have a plot with both Lair and Biped aspects having biped structures built around the Lair opening or will Lair openings equal the size of the plot it is being placed on?

It didn't appear that the lair opening on the surface took up the whole plot. I don't see any technical reason why you couldn't put up biped structures around your lair opening, but that doesn't mean they'll allow it. I do like the idea of putting up walls around the perimiter of the plot to deter bipeds from entering at all, heh.

7) Also, are new plots going to be added to the game to accomodate Lairs or will existing plots just be given the L designation OR will you do both?

I believe David said he wouldn't be adding L tags to any existing plots, but would try to add some new L plots to existing communities.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

2) And how far down can a lair go? There HAS to be a set boundary floor otherwise a Lair would be limitless despite any LxW area boundaries.

This is set by the devs when they make the plot. And yes, it *can* be virtually limitless in depth.

Then I have a slight problem with that given biped plots have a limit as to how much can go on their plot yet, without a boundary floor, a Dragon will be able to have as vast a lair as they wish to make. I do hope the devs decide to make a definate Depth dimension and not allow Dragons infinite lair space.

5) ALL of these things concidered, will we end up with plots with a LxWxDxH dimension making plots four dimensional?

Haha, I imagine that if they allow for both under ground and above ground 'additive construction' that it will be more LxW + [Z range] not 4D, just 3D with an offset to the terrain.

Well, I didn't mean 4D in the literal sense, seeing that it is Time, but since it would be 4 actual dimensions, one each going above and below the ground plus length and width, I saw no other term to fit the scenario. I suppose it would be 25x25x25,-25 if the Z axis was used in display which I could certainly live with. I just know that total dimensions of a plot will be a heavy factor in which people choose their plots with so people will want to know their limits. Everyone will want to know how big of a 'box' a plot is.

[Vlisson]

very interesting infos

-dragon laircrafter a new dragon school. it dont makes sense for me in the dragon concept but hey its good for me because my dragon will get some work after 1 year of boredom (and i can gain some lvls again har har)

-unlimited deep? hmm i dont think so, i think you will be limited (7-10 floor) but let be surprised

-new plots hmm where will they be? around existing plots/cities? or east from the east blight? on draak? i hope the lair positions will make sense (for style and for usefullness)

[imported_Denrath]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fridlekh wrote: 2) And how far down can a lair go? There HAS to be a set boundary floor otherwise a Lair would be limitless despite any LxW area boundaries.

This is set by the devs when they make the plot. And yes, it *can* be virtually limitless in depth.
Then I have a slight problem with that given biped plots have a limit as to how much can go on their plot yet, without a boundary floor, a Dragon will be able to have as vast a lair as they wish to make. I do hope the devs decide to make a definate Depth dimension and not allow Dragons infinite lair space.

I think what was meant there was that there is nothing that would bar us from going down and down and down because there is nothing below the land anywhere. I am sure there will be a depth limit as well (25x25x2levels). The bigger ones may be able to go down 10 levels, 20 levels, who knows, but I am sure there will be some kind of restriction on them.

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fridlekh wrote: 5) ALL of these things concidered, will we end up with plots with a LxWxDxH dimension making plots four dimensional?

Haha, I imagine that if they allow for both under ground and above ground 'additive construction' that it will be more LxW + [Z range] not 4D, just 3D with an offset to the terrain.
Well, I didn't mean 4D in the literal sense, seeing that it is Time, but since it would be 4 actual dimensions, one each going above and below the ground plus length and width, I saw no other term to fit the scenario. I suppose it would be 25x25x25,-25 if the Z axis was used in display which I could certainly live with. I just know that total dimensions of a plot will be a heavy factor in which people choose their plots with so people will want to know their limits. Everyone will want to know how big of a 'box' a plot is.

I knew what you meant, just thought that was kind of the wrong term...but I got the gist of what you were saying or I might have made the same comment as Fridlekh. I doubt the opening will take up the entire surface of the plot, so therefore I could see at least some type of decoration being able to be used on it like trees, fountains, walls, landing pads, etc. It would be nice if we could put bipedbuildings on the plots, but then we come back to the problem of dragon lairsgetting much more than biped plots. At that point, that 25x25x2 I mentioned above basically becomes a 25x25x3, giving us more room for shops.

[Death-knell]

DB somewhere said the levels of your lair would be a function of the tier of the lair. The example I believe he gave was a tier 5 lair would have 5 levels to it.

[Smeglor]

1) Just like a surface plot, all footprints of Lair tunnels/rooms must be within the X,Y boundary of the Lair plot. They can, however, overlap each other, as long as they're at a different depth.

2) The depth is a variable with each plot.

3) Good question, the depth should be shown somewhere. I'll see what the plan is on that.

4) There is already a height value with plots. For Lairs, it is simply a negative value (thus becoming depth).

5) See 4).

6) A plot is either a Lair, and thus having only Lair structures, or not a Lair, thus having other structures. There is no mixing.

7) Lairs will be all new plots. I'm pretty sure they'll all be new communities, too, as opposed to added to existing ones, but as they haven't been created yet, I can't say that for certain.