"The New Economy" and "Goon Squad" chat rooms...

[SaveTheGame]

Hello, please let me start by saying there is no malice toward anyone intended by this post or the chat rooms mentioned and the purposes for these chat rooms.

Myself and others have been discussing many "problems" with Horizons (specifically on the Chaos shard in our case). An interesting thing about some of these problems is that they are brought on by the players themselves and not so much the game.

To address two types of issues, two new chat rooms have been created which we hope will be used by the populace of the Chaos shard.

"The New Economy"
This chat room is intended to break through an interesting phenomonon happening on the Chaos shard. When I joined the game initially, there were many guilds and their were many characters in these guilds. However, there were also *many* characters not in any guild. It was hard to distinguish if this was because many were never asked to be in a guild or if many did not want to be in a guild. I suspect (as is typical) it was a combination of both. As the populace of the Chaos shard has dwindled, so too has the desire to see characters/players leave the game and to have it dwindle faster. Many have decided to combat this you have to give characters a sense of community through guild membership. However, what I have seen is happening now is that guild allegiance outweighs overall game/community/economy health. If you are within a guild you know that there is a thriving bartering/trading/freebie/working together attitude toward obtaining crafted items or even distributing dropped loot. However, this has seemingly destroyed the economy of the game in terms of the consigners and the ability for those not in a guild to function. Of course people get around this by trading/bartering along friendship lines accross guild borders, but this is not structure to assist all (such as newer characters or simply someone looking for a basic non-teched T2 spell of some sort). Thus the new chat room "The New Economy" has been opened and the hope is that people who are interested in crafting or helping crafters by muling, hunting for comps/forms/techs, or whatever will hang out in this chat room so that they can work together to attempt to maintain a reasonable level of basic goods to super teched goods (if they wish) on all consigners (not just in New Brommel for the very new). A simple trip through the lands and browsing of the consigners everywhere (or seaching online) will always show, these days, how hard it is to find the most basic items one would expect to find. We are hopeful that crafters and those interested in helping crafters can revive the economy of this game by working together regardless of guild boundaries or what some could consider power/loot hording guild policies.

"Goon Squad"
This chat room is setup for these reasons:
1) To allow people to have a place to get community support when they believe they are being harrassed, having their nodes stolen, having their kills stolen, being effectively stalked by one or more other characters, etc.
2) To allow people to gather who are willing to go out to the site of a reported incident to provide for more effective logging/witnessing of such incidents and to provide support in numbers to the down trodden victim.

These chat rooms will only succeed if those who wish to support them, use them. Creating them alone is not enough. Please lend your support, for the good of the game and the characters in the game.

[Theolaerynn]

Odd that you would feel the need to use an annon handle for this post, especially one as arrogant as SaveTheGame, but ok, sure, I will bite.

I am not concerned about the economy, we don't have enough players to have one. What I see as the important issue is encouraging new folks to stay. Whenever I see someone starting out, I do whatever I am able to in order to help.

Sometimes this is just sitting and answering the endless questions that new folks have, keeping firmly in mind that we were all new folks here at one time and asked many of the same questions.

Sometimes it is helping returning folks hunt for comps for upgrades, sometimes it is crafting spells or Dragon related items. Sometimes it is running stone and ore.

And sometimes it is just hanging out to fight critters and joke around, getting other people into the group so that it becomes a fun social thing.

The one thing I make it a point NOT to do is to recruit them. Not because I don't want them in my guild, and not because I think they would be better served elsewhere, but because I personally hate the 'hidden agenda' feel. Like I am helping them because I want something from them. Besides, I always hate getting spammed by guild invites when I start new games.

So for me personally, I don't think of the economy, I think of the player. Time enough for them to learn of the economy after they have had enough help to be able to fend for themselves in something they consider to be an enjoyable manner.

[SaveTheGame]

Anon handle? Yours is anon, I don't know who you are. This is the nick I chose, I don't understand the issue there or why you'd even be bothered about anything.

I have more than on character in game, are you requiring that I use the nick of the character I play most often or something? Odd.

[Crazyfingers]

Only about 25% of the playerbaseuse the chat channels. Of that 25%,80% are long time players. Another 10% are alts or names that are always there but never do anything or say anything.

I applaud the effort butit might be better spent roaming the lower tiered lands and asking newer players if they have any questions or need some help.

Of course this would mean leaving your grind.

NimKhazad

[Tokoz]

It is odd not to sign one's posts.

It's a valiant effort, but take it from someone who does know:
1) You have to be very open and honest with people if you want to have them come together under the community banner.
2) You have to realize that no matter how hard you try, cajole, bribe, or threathen the community, leading a community effort is nothing short of herding cats. Each is going to want to go it's own direction. You need to find the direction they want to go most and follow, not pick the direction you want to go and try to lead. It doesn't work.

You can follow similar efforts over on the Order boards.

Oh, and as nice as the goon squad idea is... Use support tickets. Less hurt feelings in the community.

[LaughingOtter]

Anon handle? Yours is anon, I don't know who you are. This is the nick I chose, I don't understand the issue there or why you'd even be bothered about anything.

It's an interesting idea, but if you're not willing to to be honest about who you are in-game, don't expect a lot of support.

[SaveTheGame]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]SaveTheGame wrote:Anon handle? Yours is anon, I don't know who you are. This is the nick I chose, I don't understand the issue there or why you'd even be bothered about anything.



It's an interesting idea, but if you're not willing to to be honest about who you are in-game, don't expect a lot of support.

I don't understand the hang up. In game my character name is AirIstaria. Yippie. Another is Meddik Tayzer. Another is CankerSore. Now I am magically better than before? I do not understand the hang up on connecting a post with an individual in game unless you plan to invalidate or validate an opinion or effort based on prejudice.

[Tokoz]

It is odd not to sign one's posts.

It's a valiant effort, but take it from someone who does know:
1) You have to be very open and honest with people if you want to have them come together under the community banner.

Understand the ettiquette of the medium you are using. Do not belittle it.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

What Theo said about the economy needing a population to truly function. Its happening ever so slowly, last couple days I've seen people asking to buy things in MP. I've also seen a few people turning MP into a Rant Room. As pop grows the economy will improve - will take getting rid or nerfing the use of PB's to make it thrive tho...

What Nim said about taking the time to help newbies. Just today, while trying to do some obsidion const, I ended up spending most of time chatting with a new player who just joined the game.

Was enjoyable - I don't mind answering any questions for anyone who might have them - feel free to send me a tell. I might be afk or on the phone but I will answer your tell. This new player was asking about armor, how toget tokens, HOW to buy formulas and duel wielding (which I really really REALLY wish would be added - Dev, make some left hand weapons dammit!).

He was a mage, but the way he was talking I told him he should look into BattleMages (he wanted to use a sword, wear better armor than cloth but cast spells too). I personally haven't played one, I know they used to suck - got a few fixes but I opened his eyes to a class he hadn't been exposed to yet and it set him off into the big world outside New Brommel.

My point? The new players coming in to the game aren't dumb - they just don't have a manual to read, aren't dropped into "the chats" they need to be in, and have an outdated tutorial (except dragons - but it needs work). Its takes you me and the other old guys to spend a few talking to newbies to expose them to what is beyond the starter areas - they really are very limited.

Tons of you do it and I thank all of you for it - just me a regular player.Chances are you improved my gaming experiencein Horizonsby helping to keep someone through the tutorial/trial time.I'm sure that I know someone I call a friend in this game who benefited from that player interaction at a crucial point - the beginning.

Bulgrim

[Daedra]

First up I'm not a Chaos player but I noticed the thing about freebies within guilds. I can understand from a shard economy point view this can be seen as bad, however, it does add the community and friendship aspect of the game-which is a key area that sells the game in the first place.
Also in regards to harrassment, in the first instance this should be submitted via support otherwise you could end up with vigilantes or misaccusations. (Unity players may feel I'm being hyprocritcial on this point but dealing with harrassment cases is much different on the NA shards compared to ours.)
Just my 2c.

[IndyMan]

Another is CankerSore

I can tell by this name you are not someone who I would follow around. /shrugs

[Foxfire]

The New Economy: MMORPGs by their very nature have different economic drivers than simply in-game silver, as has been discussed in many threads. My personal favorite is the medium of fun. People receive goods and services through personalized guild (or otherwise) interactions rather than impersonalized silver purchases from a nameless connie/PB. It's closer to a bartering system, although what's often being traded is someone's skill & time directly, rather than a indirect medium like money. I enjoy it better, personally. It's part of the game, knowing who to go to get certain things, and that changes over time.

But if you can get enough people to go along, great. I don't think the demand is there to kick suppliers into action. Heck, I have trouble finding decent paying construction work oftentimes, although I haven't put much effort into it.

Goon Squad: Is there really so much of this going on that it warrants such action? I've a top-end crafter (or at least I spend a couple hours every night crafting at least)and I have had maybe 1 or 2 incidents in the past 6 months - and I'm not even sure those incidents were malicious/intentional. On Chaos there is the Guildleader's chat channel (I forget the exact name, but it always has plenty of folks in it). Anyone should and sometimes do bring up such issues there, usually by going through their GM/GL. It's also meant as a place for un-guilded folks to come and talk to the various guilds for membership interests, but anyone should feel free to come and discuss any shard issues, including misbehavior. In short, although I don't think its really needed (and I should add, use a support ticket first anyway) I think you already have your Goon Squad on Chaos- use us GM's.

No, I didn't just call my fellow GM's goons. [:P] At least, I don't think I did. [:D]

[Bori Grimbattle]

As far as signing ones' posts with character names that should be left to personnal preference. I have 7 characters I play, 3 of which are in my sig. The others I leave out of my sig for a reason. As I am quite active on the boards at times and in some very political and heated discussions I find that it will and does carry over into the game.

Perhaps that is why the 3 toons listed in my sig have born the brunt of abuse against my style of role play while the 4 others have never been approached on the subject. Yet it is still me playing all 7 toons in various ways. I can rp the other 4 in the manner I choose without the fear of someone jumping me for how they role play.

As well, if I am in "character" with Bori I do not want to be called Sinistre. Bori is Bori, Sin is Sin. Too many take what they see on the boards into the game. If I am on as Sinistre I do not take weapon or tool orders that Bori can make. I am working with Sin and the Dwarf is asleep and I cannot wake him. At times, if I know the person asking, I will awake the Dwarf for weapons or the Fiend for spells but they are different characters.

It is too late in the game to remove 2 of the 3 names in my sig but there are times I wish I could and I will not be putting the other 4 names there.

There is no need to know the toon names of everybody on the boards, especially on an rp shard.

[imported_Leannae]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tokoz wrote: It is odd not to sign one's posts.

It's a valiant effort, but take it from someone who does know:
1) You have to be very open and honest with people if you want to have them come together under the community banner.



Understand the ettiquette of the medium you are using. Do not belittle it.

Although I do post my character names (some of them) I respect the rights of those who choose not to. A very good friend of mine has fallen under serious fire in game because people found out who she was via the boards and disagreed with her motives. Theythentook them into game, a roleplaying server no less where who you are outside Istaria shouldn't matter.

If a person doesn't wish to be known, I say respect that right for the person could have very valid reasons for not wanting their identity known.

[Crazyfingers]

My real name is James, some call me Hillbilly Jim, Jimbo, Jimbob, Jimmy, and alot of other bad names. Im not really a dwarf at all!

NimKhazad

[Jayne]

Jayne on boards is same Jayne in game. I have no problem with it. If I give an opinion on boards its same in game. I'm not wishy washy. I have many friends in game that disagree sometimes with me on boards. But we are friends. And no I don't have other characters. Jayne is Jayne

Jayne

[Seikojin]

:o
I think those channels are a great idea and if I am playing the game I will be sure to be in both.

Not exactly for the mentioned reasons, but I think those things are rampant and destructive to the games gameplay.

[imported_Twelvebagger]

I have a remarkable idea guys, and I mean this in the nicest way possible-- can we resume the original topic? More posts here are geared towards the poster not using a toon name than they are on the topic.

Here is my opinion:

The most important thing for a new player is not to present them with an in game economy, it is to provide them with the proper tools, education, and warmth that a new player needs to stay interested in this game. It is incredibly frustrating to find that you cannot get the gear you need at or near the level you need it.

I won't get into the cause and effect that guilding has on the economy, I will just use the above premise to reach a conclusion:

1) The consigners need to be well stocked with the first two tiers of goods.
2) The new players, by some means, need to be aware of the marketplace channel.
3) Those that are capable, need to pause the grind for a few moments and stop to help the player that is in need of gear.
4) And this is the big hurdle: When someone finally does place a request in marketplace, the others need to pause the side-chatter momentarily or resume it in a more apporpriate channel.

Now, before I get murdered, I'm probably one of the top people that makes off topic and borderline inappropriate comments in marketplace. I've thought about this quite a bit on whether or not I should even be in that channel saying things that are not marketplace relevant. I shouldn't.

The biggest issue about the above and about this post, is that not enough of the new players are being directed to join marketplace or New Player help. I know there is TONS of help out there, they just need to find it, and those capable need to help.

[imported_Twelvebagger]

"Goon Squad"
This chat room is setup for these reasons:
1) To allow people to have a place to get community support when they believe they are being harrassed, having their nodes stolen, having their kills stolen, being effectively stalked by one or more other characters, etc.
2) To allow people to gather who are willing to go out to the site of a reported incident to provide for more effective logging/witnessing of such incidents and to provide support in numbers to the down trodden victim.

I don't see the above as being even remotely productive nor a good idea. The bottom line is this, I can only think of a very small number of people that could be labeled as rude, or even a griefer to some degree.

Fighting fire with fire is useless for the most part. This game is about community, and anyone labeled like the above certainly will not have a lot of community to partake in.

Doing something like the above could only lead to separation of the community, i.e. people taking sides.

[Kerech]

1) To allow people to have a place to get community support when they believe they are being harrassed, having their nodes stolen, having their kills stolen, being effectively stalked by one or more other characters, etc.
2) To allow people to gather who are willing to go out to the site of a reported incident to provide for more effective logging/witnessing of such incidents and to provide support in numbers to the down trodden victim.

Is this really a problem? I know it used to be horrible back in the months after release, but I've been back in-game a few days and played maybe 20 hours total... the number of other players I've seen in-game during that time I could count on both hands and all but a couple of those were in Bristugo, passing through to another portal. Is there really fighting for nodes and kills? Maybe it's because I'm mining tier I/II nodes and only fighing level 20ish mobs... I've had them to myself so far :)