The 'Focus' group

[Galem]

Thank you tjl for putting this back on topic, which was the 'Focus' group, not the current changes.

Aamer, thank you for partially derailing the thread by bringing it into another discussion about the current changes. I would appreciate it if you would self edit, we don't need another thread with your opinion on the proposed crafting changes.

Back on topic.

I just want to know that the people of this focus group actually do represent the community at large. There are way too many people from both extremes I would be very concerned if they were having ideas bounced off of them.

As for copying to Blight, I'd be glad to, even started a thread about it and got an answer. It will happen again, but not possible right now.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Well if there is a focus group, someone picked the members, and we can all hope that they represent the community at large. Who exactly would be qualified to second guess the choice of members on the list?

[Galem]

---------
A focus group exists to provide quick feedback on various proposals.
---------

Yes, it does LaughingOtter. But the feedback coming from a group of people that are well past a change having an effect on them is worthless. It'd be like a group of Dragons providing feedback on Weaving.

The hostile, I guess, comes from the feeling of a lack of any true voice. Unless you are willing to spend your day milling around IRC, or happen to be lucky enough to catch an unannounced dev chat on the Live servers, your only outlet is here, where communication is at a minimum.

Any news we do get ALWAYS seems to come as second-hand from the IRC channel, and now a Focus group.

If a person has nothing to hide, then why would they not say they are on this focus group. I'd like to believe that if the focus group truly had a good cross-section of the player backgrounds, then people would be more inclined to feel comfortable with the idea and maybe not be so harsh when these major things come out of nowhere.

Unless, this group is made up of a truly biased or clique group of people?

As I stated at the beginning, this concept is nothing new to mmorpgs, yet this is the only game I have ever seen that hides the members of the focus group.

[Galem]

Senk, from the people who post here it would be easy to pick a cross section that could be balanced. There are many passionate people here, and many who see things from both sides.

If I knew someone like Snowdonia was a part of it, I would feel more comfortable. I'd even feel comfortable if Aamer and Serathor were also a partof it together, because they can balance each other out.

What I would hate to find out was that there were mostly Aamers or mostly Seranthors, but no Snowdonias.

I think that made sense. It sounded like it did in my head.

Edit:The above is not intended as an insult to anyone mentioned. Merely an analogy to the diffrent types of posters.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Yes, and then it would be balanced to your preference. And then someone else would complain about someone on the group, and someone else would want to add someone else, and someone else would want these two separated, and someone else would want more people, and someone else would want less people, and on and on....

Can't you just trust the people that put the thing together in the first place? Focus groups tend to be anonymous for this exact reason. And as for getting our voices heard, point me to another MMORPG that has the devs actively involved in the forum discussions...

[Galem]

http://www.camelotherald.com/index.shtml

[Senkeleron Fell]

http://www.camelotherald.com/index.shtml

I assume they have forums somewhere, but I couldn't find them.

[Seranthor]

LOL Galem, they'd never allow me even in close proximity of said group... but thanks for the kind thought.

[Seranthor]

Senk, No I cant 'trust', too often we have trusted that things will change for the better and that things would get fixed and trusted in many pie-in-the-sky things then reality smacks us square in the face and we realize we were misled. So to answer your question sir, no I can not.

[oluviel]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Deth wrote: My problem is in Smeglor post, no where does it say THE FORUMS where most of us get our infomation and post our thoughts. Some of us can not get on IRC due to work and such what about our option?


Amon and David (David happens to be the CEO) both watch the suggestions forum religiously. If you read posts like David's "Wells and Sand Piles" or noticed that "dead mice now stack" is in the patch notes for blight you'll see this demonstrated. If you have a suggestion, and it's a good suggestion, post it in the suggestions thread, it will be read.

I'll mention that you do not get that level of interaction with developers in almost any other game. It's really saying something when someone like Amon has more forums posts than me.

for once i agree with you heh

[Nalrach]

Whoever is in the focus group is really none of your business. Are you mad that you aren't in it? Are you upset that your brillant insights haven't been recongized?

AAO .. sorry but I have to say it, your missing is point , and the decending attitude toward him is not, making it easier.

To his defence, he may be asking it too hard, but I'm also curious as to who these groups are. We keep earing talk about commission and focus group, discussion beetwen them and the devs, and they seems to have a lot of power, or at least have an attentive ears from the devs. To say it's none of his business to know who are the influencing players, is telling all the players it's none of your business who makes (and what) changes request to game. As players .. all players are entitled to the same recognition, and it's unfair to tell him he has no rigths on finding what his happening with the game he his playing and probably loving.

Their is two folds in knowing who have the ears of the devs. Maybe find what they do so well so that maybe we also one day .. how you said it ... we are being recognized. The second, to get some assistance in passing a message. There is another usefull thing that could happend by knowiing what group are out there.. that we can address our impression to the rigth person. Example you are on a focus group for dragon, and XYZ is on a focus group magic. If I find something rediculous about conjurer, I would try to get in touch whith XYZ, not you since your focus is dragon.

No, I think his request has some value.

added ... after reflection.
We do not really know what Smeglor means by focus group. It could simply be the community discussion they sometimes do by dropping in communauty chat and discuss a topic. Maybe instead of who are in the focus group, we should be asking what are the focus group.

[Crazyfingers]

I dont really care whose on the focus group, as long as it gets some results. And the means to those results are irrelevant to me. As long as the results are fun, entertaining, and bring in new gamers.

Horizons has to pick up some steam by winter time.Results must be apparent by the holiday shopping season. If not they might as well put this game on the mantle as a learning experience. And move on.

Yes I'm challenging the devs. December 1, 2005.
An improved Horizons with a new buzz around it.
By any and all means possible. Irc, boards, focus groups, a trip on lsd to the mountains, doesnt matter to me, as long as there's results.

NimK

[AA0]

Seranthor, your crafting solution has some merrit initially, but when you take a look at it, things just don't work. You are really comparing apples and oranges.
Adventure exp and crafting exp are completely different, and aren't calculated in any way similar, you just can not compare the two.
The way things are set up now, if you switch to a level 1 whatever, you'll only have t2 collecting mastered. Now at that point, would you ever get exp from t2 materials? no.

I can understand the masterable and unmasterable, the armour and weapon limitations on adventurers, but on crafters the same logic doesn't work. In adventuring I see a situation where you are learning a new method of combat, using advanced items just isn't possible with such a basic understand of the class. In crafting, you are switching from something like blacksmith to weaponsmith, which make the same objects and do mostly the same things, you might focus a bit more, but you never really change anything.

One of my ideas was to limit the total exp gained per tier, by the number of materials you are able to work. So a blacksmith could not just PL off of mithril, they would be forced to work with wood and stone for the other 2/3rds of the tiers. It would keep the one resource crafters pure though. Its not perfect, but I doubt TG could keep track of exp.





Maybe a dev could make a post about how this group is selected? I'm sure they don't want its members reveiled as much as the members want to stay hidden. The devs could ease our minds by letting us know the types of players, and the variety they choose. Aswell as some requirements they might have.

[imported_Zayin]

they could nerf it where they put a min level on tools like weapons now thatsa Nerf.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

We all know the devs have a plan, they will not budge from it.

If they make this current school change coincide with the Confectioner rework then YES, they DO budge from it.

They're idea to rework the entire crafting system was made just recently in regards to the Confectioner rework (which has been on the slate since ARoP and Lairs has) yet they are giving it as much precidence as the Confectioner rework and bumped it from nonexistance on the to do list to coincide with the next thing getting fixed.

I wouldn't call that not budging. I'd call that buggering Confectioners yet AGAIN by making them wait even longer because they want to get this crafting system rework in simultaneously as the Conf rework making the whole process even longer than it would have been had they stayed focused to their own plan and did the Confectioner rework in it's proper time. but that's not gonna happen now, now is it?

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Galem, those comments gave me a smile. Thanks for that. :) I wish I COULD be on the focus group TBH, but I doubt I'd ever be offered the chance. :P

Kuma, I wish you were still on it. :( Least then I would know and feel a sense of balance was there; and I don't even agree with you all of the time either!

/mourn Kuma's resignation from focus group

[Logikality]

We all know that those on the focus group are the fanboi extreme. If there was a balance even in the least none of these current proposed changes would ever be coming through. I figure Aamer is a part of this group based on his posts in this thread, and he is more biast that anyone I have ever met.

I would like to know who is leading this group so I could suck up like the other fanboi and get in on this group, but I guess this post will get me off any list they have as it is.

I love this game that is why I am still here after over a year and a half of nerfs for the "betterment" of the game. IF you haven't figured it out yet the developers and focus group do not want the members to be known. We all know or at least can figure out who is included in this "nerf" err I mean "focus group."

on another note
HAHAHA I hit post and I get a page not found error. figures

[AA0]

Snow,
They are probably starting the confectioner work right now, and I'm sure manga has told us some of the ideas in IRC that he has planned. Its not like he is going to push the confectioner fix button, but when he does design it, he isn't go to calculate all the form values, then have to redo it a week later for this change right?

My point was though, if the devs want to do something, its going to get done one way or another. The best we can do on the forums is to be rational and give proper feedback that is useful

[Dangit NotAChance]

We all know that those on the focus group are the fanboi extreme. If there was a balance even in the least none of these current proposed changes would ever be coming through. I figure Aamer is a part of this group based on his posts in this thread, and he is more biast that anyone I have ever met.

LOLOLOL ROFLMAO .


ahhh. you sure are good for a laugh.


You want to know about the focus group? then do a search. Search is your friend. This has been hashed ages ago. I am not going to go over it again. But I will say this. Those on the focus group are not fanboi's as you like to call them. Dedicated to Horizons? yes. extreme fanboi's no. Especially not in the degrogatory way you mean it to be. Sostop trying to pretend you know the facts when you have proven you are clueless.


To be perfectly honest AA0 has it right.As much as I usually dont agree with him,The only people who have a right to know who is on the focus group is the focus group and the devs. The devs are free to take input from who ever they want too. Or take input from noone if they so choose. Its their system, its their rules. Say what you want, but thats the long and short of it.Jumping up and down, making wild claims and holding your breath till you turn blue isnt going to change that.

[AA0]

how dare you not normally agree with me