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Thread: Monk issue List

  1. #1

    Default Monk issue List

    The list

    I would like to see the issues broken up into

    General - Defense

    General - Offense

    General - Group

    General - Misc


    All the general issues are related to all monks.

    Then a section for each of the 5 monk types.

    Once the list is complete I will create a support ticket with the list and a link to the topic, as well as PM the thread to a dev or two


    I will begin using the Identified issues from the thread I started some time ago.

    General - Defense
    • Evasion/Dodge - No evasion nor dodge techs
    • Less Hp/level than all other melee classes. We only get 18hp/level which is low for someone who is expected to stand toe to toe with the opponent.
    • Damage avoidance - Evasion is still only reliable vs mobs 20 levels below the player
    • No monk/disciple specifc defensive self buff, Other than 10min flow like water.
    • Evasion effect seems random
    • Flow like water applies +40 to dodge however with increased mob weapon skills it is unlikely a monk will win the evasion vs mob weapon skill contest so the +40 dodge mostly does not help.
    • Iron Body does not override True Grit V when it should because it provides considerably more armour.
    General - Offense
    • Low damage output, even when accounting for speed we come out under EVERYONE/THING
    • No class offensive self buff's
    • Unarmed mastery delay seems to take 20+ levels to lower delay
    • Attacks that work with multipliers don't work well for monks eg critical strike which is tier*normal damage our normal damage is so low that our critical strike damage is laughable. Same applies to multistrike.
    • Due to our rapid attacks at less damage we are more affected by our foes armour. We hit more and each hit incurs the armour based damage reduction, This is part of why our damage is so significantly less than other melees.
    • Flurry I/II/III affects as the most, we already have way lower damage than other melee's It gets reduced more by flurry then we also have the damage reduction caused by armour.
    • Low strength when strength seems to be a major factor in damage calculations 6/level is low for a melee school
    • Handwraps 2 handed weapon without the benefits all other two handed weapons have.
    General - Group


    General - Misc
    • Having specific armor like robes and headbands
    • The on character effect (glowies) for disciples often disappears after porting
    Flame Disciple
    • Aura of Flame I - The ability does very little damage, Allows others in the party with you at the time its activated to buff other people they group with
    • Lacks a visual component when used.
    • Fists of flame is doing very little to no damage to high armour mobs thus negating the benefit of being a flame disciple
    Ice Disciple
    • Ice Armour - 50 Armour is not a huge diference, The tier 2 version is broken (can this be confirmed?)
    • Ice Tomb and its Companion ability Shatter do not work. Largely because Ice Tomb is broken
    • Ice line - The ice line is rather weak. 2 roots (one reduces fire damage). No repeating bolt. Long delay on spells that are worth using.
    • Group ice armour has no icon and shows in the effects area as a blue box.
    Monk
    • For the most part Monks offer little to a group. Monks can't tank effectivley and are not High damage dealers.
    Spirit Disciple
    • Pillage spirit (10min recycle, transfers 100% of damage to attackers health) - Often misses and considering our damage for one hit 60-80 health doesn't help, Timer should be reduced or effectiveness increased
    • Other than Spirit punch no frequent use attacks that are class specifc (common to most classes).
    • Many abilities we gain at a much later level than other spirit users. EG Area Siphon I at level 76, this is gained at 14 by a Pure spiritist and I think 27 for a reaver.
    • Vampire fist visual effect needs to be the same black and purple that spirit bolt uses, then it would look like a "spirit" effect.
    • The Siphons (ability) we get are low level and late in the game by the time we get them they are of little use.
    • Instant Transfer III gained at 90 Heals the target for 200...
    Storm Disciple
    • Stunning blow - Is less effective than lightning claws, no point having abilities that are less effective than normal attack.
    • Clap of Thunder - AE 3 second stun 10 minute timer, not as effective as a AE root
    • Static Aura grants all the group members in the near by area the ability to grant static aura.
    • Lightning claws sound seems to repeat endlessly and is very annoying
    FIXED
    • No icons for our chains
    • Weapon socket. We have none.
    • No kick animation, even if it uses unarmed just a kick animation would be nice Our chains have some kicks now
    • No use of the left arm.
    • No trainer tasks post level 30 for SPRD (im told)
    • Ki Strike - This currently buffs enemies with the same effect as Gift of Alc
    • Spirit punch (instant hit deals etheral damage) - This ability does less damage than a normal attack even against targets with out etheral armour.
    • Freezing Touch I has 50% chance to slow down a mob
      Freezing Touch II has 20% chance to slow down a mob.
      Freezing touch III has 30% chance to slow down a mob.
      So clearly version I needs to be fixed.
    • Defy Flame III is the same as Defy Flame II
    • UAM 21 (100) does the same damage as 20 and less than a level 95 (Essence leather) handwrap
    • Defy Spirit Values are incorrect
    • Iron Body (+100 Armour for 1 min) - Is not effective considering its a level 70 ability.
    • Ice armour - Conflicts with Iron Body
    • Iron Body Overwrites Ice armour II which provides same protection but more etheral
    • Spirit Punch is on a shared timer with cleric ability smash
    • Iron Body over writes earthen crust which is more effective
    • Class quests after the merge are not able to be completed.
    • Spirit form seems to conflict with earthen crust V. Wasting spirit form until its recycled
    • Firestorm is equivilant in damage to a t1 mage spell and is a level 90 ability.
    • Burning fist appears to be broken
    • Fire sheath is not on par with other damage shields
    • Group ice armour Or Ice armour appears to be masterable
    • Numbing cold not associated with Ice skill
    • Numbing cold is meant to be an area slow down ability but the slow down effect is barely noticable and it only affects one target.
    • Pillage Spirit does not work at all says 'You must fight with spirit' when you try to use it
    • When one gains stunning blow III it only stays until relog. After that you are reverting to II until you gain IV
    • Static Aura will no longer "spam" the user if someone has energise.
    • The delay cap on attacks (1/sec) prevents us reaching our true speed of attack. While our weapon weilding companions get faster and faster we hit a brick wall and do not get faster.
    I'll try and get this updated and keep it up to date at present it is better than nothing.

    PM or post in this thread updates.
    Last edited by evilkarl; April 28th, 2006 at 12:00 AM. Reason: update for lightning claws and others
    Zodias of Order
    Sprit Disciple Quilt, Miner

    Monk Issue List

  2. #2

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Great Topic and Post, we need to keep this going!


    >BuMp<


    Btw, does evasion really even work?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    My observations are that it works reliably against mobs 20 levels below you but still not 100%.

    However level 60 mobs can still hit me when my evasion is at 1300 assuming monst progression is the same as players a 60 would have 600 weapons skill base and maybe a pasive boost or stat based boost to 650-700.

    With those type of figures I would expect the level 60 would have alot of trouble hitting me. I should run some more checks and see if I am just whining because I think we should be more evasive.

    Against mobs 80+ I seem to evade maybe 1/10 attacks depending on foe and I miss more than I hit against wolf and spiders who are still over powered.
    Zodias of Order
    Sprit Disciple Quilt, Miner

    Monk Issue List

  4. #4

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Stunning Blow 3 is overwritten by Stunning Blow 2
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Can you elaborate on that tigris. Do you have stunning blow I, II and III concurrently? Kind of like our chains where we have all versions?

    Zodias of Order
    Sprit Disciple Quilt, Miner

    Monk Issue List

  6. #6
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    This is my idea of a monk and this is compaired to everything I know/seen either on TV, real life or what not.

    Monks should be fast...super fast attackers. They should be able to evade and or dodge attacks that no one else even see's coming. We should have low armor if any. Robes would make more sense as we can evade blows so little point in heavy armor which would just slow us down. WE are not super strong...we don't need to be....we have the speed to make multiple hits which can be as effective as a single hit from someone much stronger.

    This is my impression of a monk. You won't see jet li ( yes not a monk but martial artist non the less) using heavy thick leather armor and he's not all that big/strong but he kicks ******. Same goes for Bruce Lee. If monks are to work...this is the example they should follow when making them work.

    ALso, get rid of the delay crap all together for monks. Dex should be the driving force behind our speed. Yes str should be used for the amount of damage we do but should cost more for monks. I'm not asking for major damage and I don't feel that no matter what is done to monks...we should not hit as hard as a pure warrior but we should hit 2-3 times more.

    anyway thats my rant.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    No, you gain Stunning Blow I fine, then II, then III. But as soon as you relog, your back at Stunning Blow II again, and stuck that way until you earn Stunning Blow IV. Once you do, it overwrites all the previous ones, fixing the problem. But for the STMD that is stuck with II when they've earned III it's very annoying.

    As for our speed, Ssrydian implied that the attack per second (aps) is logrythmic (sp?) - you can use buffs to reduce the delay closer and closer to 1 aps but never actually reach 1. He and I calculated that a STMD with Gift of Alacrity 5 and Energize 2 would hit once every 1.4 seconds. Couple that with low damage, and I understand what Menkure means when he says 'we bruise things to death'.
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  8. #8
    Iago
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    On the evasion issue: I can confirm evilkarl's findings that evasion has been less effective since the "big patch", due to the huge increase mobs got in melee skill. It is how ever not bad enough to be called ineffective against anything bigger than 20 levels under your own. While I'm searching for forms and techs I'm leveling druid and I've been killing rating 80-100 mobs for a few weeks, and even against those rated 100 I evade at least around 20-25 % (with about 1300 evasion). Against level 80 mobs evasion is still pretty dicisive reaching over 50%, and with Forest Mist activated (for evasion 1600+), well, then hardly anything can hit me (as it should be). To conclude: as a level 62 druid my damage is so low I almost tickle the mobs to death (mighty blows of 35-45 damage most of the time) but my evasion makes it possible to kill level 100 golems and pygmies with almost 100% certainty (and my regeneration and healing skills of course).

    On the whole I'd say that the effects of being able to use TPs in evasion and the increase in mobs melee skill cancel each other out leaving the resulting evasion on roughly the same level as before. With the added ability to parry (though it is not a high % on it's own) with wraps I'd say I avoid damage MORE than before.

  9. #9
    Thalos
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    I can relate to the plight of the monks and I feel for ya. We all started toons with varying ideas of what they should be and instead got castrated versions of em, all in the name of balance. It's humiliating behind outdamaged by a gnat 1/100th my size.

  10. #10
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalos
    It's humiliating behind outdamaged by a gnat 1/100th my size.
    rofl I feel your pain !!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    I tried getting menkure to reply here, but he hasn't so far. He said that the entire Aura of Fire I line is broken like Static Aura is, and that his Burning Punch and Firestorm abilities also don't work.

    My Static Aura ability spams the user with an error message constantly when you use it, and when you turn it on it gives all group members the effect and the aura's source buff.
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  12. #12
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Well...I knew monk had problems but tonight about put the icing on the cake for me. I've been leveling ranger lately and liking it. I hit 55 ranger which puts my rating at around 62 or 63. My monk is/was 52 still. I decided i wanted to keep monk and level it every 5 levels with my ranger. Mostly for the dex and evade. Well...as a ranger I was destroying gold golems...barely getting hurt myself. When i went as monk...I barely killed one lvl 55 golem and teh second time I was destroyed. If not for the +10 to evade and dex...i'd drop monk right now. I gave up even using monk skills as a ranger once my ranger dmg passed what monk could do...which btw..was very early on....

    I'd really like to keep my monk..I have always loved playing monks in every game i play. But this one really gives monks a bad name. AE...please fix monk..I don't care how...but please do it soon. THis is probably the most broken class in the game and many people i have talked to says it's been this way since beta. If you care so little about monks..then please do us justice and get rid of the ******** thing.

  13. #13
    branden
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    As a new player I have been asking around and trying to figure out which class i would have the most fun with. Since I first heard of the class i wanted to play monk, however the more I asked around the more I found out that monks are disadvantaged compared to other classes. All these posts comfirm that. My question to all the folks that have been around for a while is will monks be fixed? If AE has recognized that there is a problem, and has said they will fix it then i will go with monk even though they are currently underpowered. However if all we have is 5 or 10 people posting messages on a board and no one else caring about it, it's a losing battle and i'd like to know now. Thanks for any input...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Dragons get their issues fixed because there are lots of them and their really really whiney. There used to be a lotta monks, but because of all the problems most have left the game. I doubt AE will ever listen to us because we're now such a small minority. Better to find another class, babe.
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  15. #15
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris
    Dragons get their issues fixed because there are lots of them and their really really whiney. There used to be a lotta monks, but because of all the problems most have left the game. I doubt AE will ever listen to us because we're now such a small minority. Better to find another class, babe.
    Unfortunatly, what Tigris says is true. We are but a small minority and so a sqeaky voice. We probably won't be heard...again...but we'll try and try until AE either gets rid of monk or they fix it.

  16. #16
    branden
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List



    What can we do as players do to get our concerns across to AE?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    To be honest I really don't know anymore. Since all the past monk players that left over these issues didn't get their attention I don't know what will. Jeremy Stanz saw the problems and was working on them. Then they canned his ******. [:'(]

    Menkure has brought up his concerns with Ssrydian and Amon Gwareth and all they can say is "We'll look at it after the merge..." (ssrydian) or "...but but but Monks are cool!" (Amon Gwareth).
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  18. #18
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigris
    Jeremy Stanz saw the problems and was working on them. Then they canned his ******. [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-9.gif[/img]

    or "...but but but Monks are cool!" (Amon Gwareth).
    Was it Jeremy that was doing that monk on blight with the new specials and stuff...about the time they where testing the new sand golems? I never got to play much with that monk as i didn'tr have time to test. To bad he got canned...least we had SOMEONE to speak for us.

    Sorry Amon...monks LOOKED/SOUNDED cool...but try playing one...........

  19. #19

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    Mr. Stanz was doing the Experimentor - a prototype for a monk line that used mana. In working on it, he looked over all the problems with monks and saw all that was broken with them.

    But I agree. They look cool. But the devs need to play one for a few months to really see why they suck so bad. [:^)]
    TIGRIS EUPHRATES and TEKKA RUNECLAW. Istarian Veteran, The Original Order Shard Herald, Herald of the Spirit Shard. Storm Disciple, Flame Disciple, Spirit Disciple, Ice Disciple, Monk, Ranger, Healer, Druid, Spiritist. Grand Master Biped Crafter.

  20. #20
    aceracer24
    Guest

    Default Re: Monk issue List

    I though the whole mana thing was BS anyway. Didn't like the idea...least not the way they where doing it. The experimentor class was to me....magic based. Pure monks should not be using any type of magic...they should not need to. No heal spells...no buff spells no nothing. Monks meditate..they have an inborn ability to heal themselves. If anyone has played SWG...you'd see a decent example of monks. They are called Tera Kasi masters. They actually kick and punch oppenants ...with both hands and feet even!! :P They meditate to wear off wounds and heal themselves...they have the ability to look deep inside themselves and make themselves harder to damage...they have the ability to look inside themselves and heal on the fly. They can even buff themselves by looking into themselves.

    This is a monk folks........

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