Bringing single-classers up to par

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I actually submitted this to support ages ago (May 01, 2005 to be exact) but never opened a thread here for feedback. At the time there was a LOT of heated debate about single/multi-classers and I didn't want to fuel that fire anymore than it already was. Now that the major debates have calmed down and there seems to be no visible interest from TG (or maybe it was just another support case that got forgotten) I figure it's about time to put my idea up for review. Plus seeing Nim's post about post 100 XP reminded me of it.

*copy and paste*

I'm not sure how any new Adventure School specific quests are going to work but I would like to make a suggestion on how to do a particular set of them that will allow for larger benefit to those with less schools under their belt.



These quests would be available in 4 parts and would be of mini-epic proportion. Each quest would be available to partake and complete every 25 levels; so the first quest would be available at 25, then 50, then 75, and finally 100.



Basic mechanics of the quest reward would be thus:[*]All players currently in a particular school can recieve and complete these quests.[*]Maximum benefit from the quest reward is given only to those players with that particular school listed in their School list of the Character window.[*]The benefit will drop with each additional school listed in the School list of the Character window.[*]The benefit will drop to nil if X amount of schools are listed; say about 5 or 6 (random numbers)[*]The quest reward will work proactively meaning any new schools joined or lost after recieving the reward will affect the benefit from the reward bringing the benefit in line to match the benefit that would have been given had the character had that many schools upon quest completion.[/list]

Examlple:

1 school = Max benefit of quest reward
2 schools = 75% benefit of quest reward
3 schools = 50% benefit of quest reward
4 schools = 25% benefit of quest reward
5+ schools = 0% benefit of quest reward


[*]If a person with 5 schools completes the quest and gets the reward but no benefit from it said person can choose to forget any number of schools, lets say 3, and thusly recieve the benefit of having only 2 schools, 75% benefit. And on the otherhand if someone with a single school completes the quest and gets max benefit from it then decides to take on new schools later on, lets say 2, the players benefit would drop to 50% affectiveness.[/list]

The quest rewards would have to be ability/stat/resist/ward/evasion/armor/etc related as I don't think it is possible for an item to be coded to work this way. Seeing I am proposing these quests to be of mini-epic propotion and in four parts I think the reward should apply to the base and not current of any skill/stat increases.

Examples:

Spearman reward = +Parry, +Block, +Dex, +Alacrity
Monk reward = +Magic Evasion, +Dodge, +Dex, +Alacrity
Spiritists reward = +Spirit, +Evasion, +Pow, -Delay

Etc



Of course what the actual rewards would be would be left up to the Devs seeing I have NO idea what truly benefits all schools or even these ones I have used, these are just examples of what I mean. :)
[*]Each new quest completed will of course upgrade the benefit from the previous quest.[*]I don't feel these quests should be merely "Kill suchandsuch named mob, kill soandso named mob" and so on. While killing should be a part of the quest so should collecting certain items, visiting fellow trainers of the school, completing side quests for those fellow trainers involving even more NPCs/locations, visiting particular locations to find items/cause effects/kill someone(thing) via triggers, etc. It should be involving enough to take up at LEAST a few hours of someones time if not more.[*]The Quests should be difficult but not so much so that the player will need help throughout it. Much, if not all of each quest should be completable solely by the player themselves.[/list]



I feel that introducing a quest line like this for each school will 1) bolster a single-classed players ability to survive in an ever increasingly multi-classed balanced world and 2) give more thought and purpose to the school choices a player makes which is currently lacking.


*end copy and paste*


I would really like to hear some serious viewpoints on this submission so please do not hesitate to give your completely honest criticisms. :)

[Crazyfingers]

I like your idea Snow and think Im reading the basics of it right. Heres my problem with it. A single class should not be equal to a multiclassed. Someone who has multiclassed a bunch of different schools has put in more effort. It takes alot more time. So in a roundabout way this would reward less effort and penalize multiclassers. Same with dragons. Getting to level 100 dragon is far easier than getting 6 levels as a bi-ped.

There is a flip thou, if the elemental archer level 100 loves playing her class and has 8 billion experienceall inONE level 100 ELAR, they deserve to be somewhat as powerful as the multiclassed 8 level 100 uber ped that has spread thier 8 billion experience over 8 level 100 classes. Exact same experience but the dragon/single class biped is getting penalized while the multiclassed is reaping huge benefits.

heh not sure what I'm trying to say here. If somehow could incorporate your Quest Rewards(Spearman, monk, etc) based on experience and what class it was gained in.Spearman with 50 mill exp getsSpearman class rewards that Equal(or come close) to the benefits of 50 million exp spent multiclassing.

getting late, good luck interpreting this :)

Really nice idea Snow [Y]

[evilkarl]

I like the basic idea, I am all for adding epic quests for all schools, races etc and look forward to the day when its the norm rather than the exception. I also have no problem with rewarding those that stay pure.

In reply to Nimk: A pure spearperson with +100 million should be stronger in combat than a 100 spearman/spiritist. But the multiclasser should be more versatile.

[imported_tjl]

I like your idea Snow and think Im reading the basics of it right. Heres my problem with it. A single class should not be equal to a multiclassed. Someone who has multiclassed a bunch of different schools has put in more effort. It takes alot more time. So in a roundabout way this would reward less effort and penalize multiclassers.

First off, do not always equate "effort" with how many 100's someone has. I've known people who got 4x100 in the time it took me to get my first 100 in mage class. There are a lot more factors than time.

How is it penalizing multiclassers exactly? If a pure 100 mage (which I was for a long time... 200 million xp over 100) get's more uber mage-like abilites, how does that penalize my multiclassed self?

Currently the only unique "reward" for single classing is an equal rating. Which (currently) is of no help to someone who is level 100.
The rewards for multiclassing are many, and only limited by how many classes you level up.

[Phillip]

i don't see anything wrong with things currently. for a game with multiclassing, to give more to singleclass just because isn't neccessarily the right thing to do. maybe a politically correct thing to do, to give to those who chose to play a certain way with a certain perspective.

[Jayne]

Nice Idea. I started leveling other schools because currently there is no place for a single classer in HZ. So many have Uber or whats close to what you call Uber.

I started and leveled to 100 warrior and since I was at a stand still I decided to RP into a prestige school of Berserker. Like I said I would have been content with that, but I sat and watch how powerful others were as far as farming and such and it just showed how un competitive I was.

I will always be a zerker, but now I am leveling certain schools to gain some benefits that I can use as zerker. When thats done, I don't know what I'll do.

Really it would be nice if a person chose to be single classed, and I still concider being warrior then zerker single classed, that they get some type of abilities that are special. Like pure class abilities, ones you get only if you are pure and that would put u on a equal playing field as someone that was uber and playing that certain class.

Jayne

[Phillip]

i'm along the same line, Jayne.

it's good to pick one school you are true to, then take other schools to enhance that one.

a lot of people don't do that, however.

[imported_Twelvebagger]

I agree with the post and I also agree with Nim's reply.

I may be off on what Merri is referring to, but as I see it, doing something similar to what she is describing will not bring single classes in line with multiclassers.

Single classes shouldn't be as powerful, plain and simple.

However, single classers should be more defined, and her method would serve to enhance that, along with a little benefit for being pure.

I like it if done correctly. It would really depend on how potent the bonus is.

I'd be more in favor of having the reward be a new ability. Makea set of abilities that increase in potency when fewer classes are taken. Make the ability or abilities be well defined within the class (For instance, a monk would gain a rather potent martial arts ability, a mage would gain some wicked flame ability, etc).

-12-

[Larch_Order]

What about a new set of schools ONLY available to single class charactors once they reach 100. not "levels" as such, but power boosters on a per class basis.

Lets take the mage example. Mages could sign up for a Flame Docorate with a few new (COOL) flame spells, general spell range increase, power enhancement etc. These are still XP based but not extra levels. These abilities drop as soon as the player joins another school.

Maybe they could have a list of five things per class, but can only choose three, and the three they choose are ranked in power from one to three. The player chooses which they want as most powerfull, second most powerfull and third most powerfull.

Players could get a chance to differenciate their charactors then, but still remain "pure".