Finish what you've started first before doing anything new ...

[Narkano]

This should definitely be no rant. I know that there's a small team working at Horizons and I really appreciate their dedicated work to improve the game.

Nonetheless I would really like to see all those many old problems, issues and bugs taken care of first before doing any new content for the game. Or with other words: First finish the basics, that are a game's foundation before building anything new upon it. Especially since most of those issues should be able to be fixed rather quickly.

To me those points are more important than crystals, racial quests, a reworked land like LA or something like an elder game. Of course those things would be great to have but there are other important things still in game but broken or unfinished since release.

The things that come to my mind are:

- Dragons got a lot of attention already and are greatly improved but the basic issues of the class are still left untouched.

* Their ability and skill quests still end with 70th level (40th level in some cases)

* They are not able to get a Dragon's Gift V

* They have no stoneworking and smelting trainers and quests.

* Helians that tend to make more use of spells still have very few options to do so

* Drain Strike and Dimensional Pocket abilities still do not have icons

- Many lines of spells are still unfinished or almost non-existent

* Ice and Energy might need a DoT and AoE spell or two

* Mind and Summoning spells are almost non-existent and still need some serious work

* Blight line of spells needs its effects improved, since with very few exceptions they are currently not worth the time to cast them

- The character classes are rather unbalanced some even need some serious work and balancing

* Especially the monk, disciple and crossbowman classes need some serious work

* Others like Conjurer, Wizard, Sorcerer, Spiritist and Crossbowman at least need their armor use skill adjusted as already done with Mage, Scout, Guardian and Elemental Archer

* If time is short perhaps start with this:

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=111170

- There are still only class-quests for base classes and only to 30th level if at all as with the spiritist

- The annoying bug with colored cloth wristbands still isn't fixed

- The art work for bracers still needs some work to make them less bulky and to not come into conflict with round shields

- I think drop-tablesare already somewhere on the list to be redone ...

[Dhalin]

Not to mention, Dragons need more healing options... 3 breezes and 1 Instant Heal just doesn't cut it when your average biped can walk around with 4+ Instant Heals, depending on class.

--Dhalin

[Guaran]

Class Balancing I'd say is a non issue. Some classes are more powerful than others, it's just the way that it is. I would re-word it to say:

Class Usefulness.

Classes like Monk could use something unique and interesting to make them useful and fun. Maybe a group aura "Clarity of the Spirit" or something which grants 10% chance for 1 extra attack + 100 Spirit Ward. (nature disciple could have a version with group Nature Ward buff, etc)

[Vizharan]

As a level 73 Dragon(just finished my last level 70 ability quests), I feel we've had enough for now. I'm not here to start a biped vs. dragon debate(I hope nobody else is either), but we've had enough. I say give the bipeds the racial ability quests, then move on to finishing up dragons.

As for the rest, yes, many of the arcane schools need some tweaking. In armor use as well as usefulness of spells. I have a Reaver, and rarely even touch blight spells.

[Goriax]

I'm also inclined to think that what dragons need most right now is just tweaking, tuning, and bugfixing of what's already in. There ARE things which need doing but they've addressed most of the really hot button topics I think.Dragons are in far better shape then they were a year ago :)

But I do hope that sometime in the not too distant future they deal with some other dragon issues. For example, those who want to do tier 6 crafting either need some help or TG must officially decide that T6 crafting is intended to be even harder for dragons then for bipeds. Also the Helian types would probably like the gold rage equivalent (which I believe will be called primal rage). This has been mentioned as being in the works for a very long time. Eventually they REALLY need to give dragons the option of a variety of adventure schools even if it's only when ancient. In my mind, the closest thing remaining to a hot button dragon topic is the lack of multiple adventuring schools, even if it's only for ancients.

Also,a dragon confectioner school would be very welcome if the announced confectioner changes go in but PLEASE don't call it dragon confectioner. This is because it looks like confectioner is going to become VERY important so it's only reasonable that dragons have their own equivalent of this very important class.

Some quests need to be extended to level 100 but I don't think all or even most of them should. Gold rage is an example of one which probably shouldn't.

Being a Lunus I haven't tried this first hand, but I've heard that those who concentrate on Primal and get their AoE spells as powerful as possible can do some decent mass killing which tends to mess up the game just like bipeds who do mass killing and it should be addressed at the same time. Perhaps they could adjust that at the same time that Primal Rage is introduced.

I don't think it reasonable that dragons be able to do all just like I don't think it reasonable that at any given time a biped should be able to do everything. So ifdragons aregiven good one on one damage capability it's reasonable that their healing capability not be the greatest. Such as it is now. Which is why I don't think their healing capability needs adjustment as long as they remain heavy hitters (which also implies that things like hoardable drop rates remain reasonable). I think it makes a lot of sense that dragons be able to rip theentrails out of a mobeven if that means they're not good healers. There's something very satisfying about leaving a bloody trail of corpses behind you [:D]

So deal with the things which most need to be dealt with. Dragons aren't in bad shape all things considered. But don't forget that there are still dragon issues which need to be dealt with in the not too distant future.

[Rawdge]

Currently, our overwhelming focus is on getting the Confectioner school overhauled and released. In conjunction with that, the Biped Tutorial is of utmost priority, and will not be set aside right now. Once the Biped tutorial is complete, some time will be spent on making another pass on New Trismus and Lesser Aradoth. Another pass doesnt mean we'll be spending a month on each, but it will get some more polish. Right now, neither of those two areas are broken per se, but they could use some more polish to more or less "complete" them for awhile. Once those are re-touched, we'll look at an overhaul for the Tier 2 areas, and get that worked out. From there, we will be focusing on Tier 5 areas for awhile.

Once those areas are done, we will begin examining each of the Adventure Schools in depth, and more than just patching them up and filling holes, it is likely that we may very well completely overhaul some of them.

It it still too early to say which schools, or to what degree they will be altered, so I wont comment on any of that right now. Suffice to say though that we understand the situations these schools are in. However, priorities must be made, and schedules must be adhered to, otherwise, nothing ever gets done except in drips and drabs, and no one can keep track of exactly what was done or why, because everything gets too scattered.

Again, we know the situations with these schools. Personally, I can't wait to dig into these schools, and really work 'em over. But before I can do that, there are things that must be done.

We'll release more information about the schools and where we plan on taking them when the time for doing so gets closer.


Rawdge

[Narkano]

Thanks for your answer on that topic, Rawdge [:)]

At least it makes some choices for schedule more clear even if I would consider redoing the adventurererclasses ahigh priority since they are to a certain degree thevery base of the game and usually take up much time as welll as make up much of the fun.

I personally plan to stay with Horizons no matter what - onlythe non-existent customer supportfromGN mightconvince me otherwise- but some playerswill definitely get very upset if "their" favorite adventurer class(es)are completely overhauled after more than two years of play and much of their time spent creating them might be for naught. The more good reviews the game gets and the more players returnto Horizons the worse the time for redoing the adventurer classes will become.

From my point of view this is also importantdue to the fact many new players I methave taken monk, disciple, sorcerer,battlemage, bloodmage and even crossbowmanintoconsideration for the classes they want to play for theyseem really interesting at first glance. That is until they speak with other players and get told how bad a choice that is, since the classes are just much weaker counterparts of the base classes or outright broken - just to become the same healer/druid/spiritist/conjurer/etc. combination of classes throwing spirit bolts with every class.

- Narkano

[Nordico]

Narkano I tot. agree with your suggestions.

The first thing that needs to be adressed is the memleak that causes lag and after a few hours play (at 1,8GB RAM usage)the game does a CTD (crash to desktop).THIS is the base of the base game ie to have a stable game. The game does not send a crash report to MS when it does a CTD like other games do, so the dev´s can get a log autom.so they canfix it.

Why doesHZ not do this?

It is very concerning that Rawdge does not mention one word about fixing memleak/CTD.

I think this is prob. is the biggest culpritin peopleleaving the game- not all players are hardcore CFRP (like me and others).

[AmonGwareth]

Rawdge spoke from the point of view of the Design Team so our focus is primarily on content development and gameplay aspects.

[Cerjar]

@Nordico

there are three major different type of people working on a game: The designers and the programmers and the artists. Memory Leaks are programmer stuff, Rawdge and Amon are designers, they cant fix these type of stuff.

As far as i know the programmers that are responsible for the client of HZ are working on FPS-Drops and the Resource-Manager Problems to get the client more stable and run smoother.

from the IRC a few days ago:

[18:15] <gopher> hey david, I'm wondering, have you decided what the new rendering engine (whenever it comes, in a couple of years I assume) will be yet? Or are you still choosing?
[18:15] <David-OnOrder> gopher: we've been working on it for about 9 months.
[18:15] <gopher> oh heh. errr how's it going?
[18:16] <David-OnOrder> very well, there is still a very long way to go, but it will rock. In the meantime, we have another set of people looking at the current client, and expect some major upgrades there as well

[AA0]

Just keep in mind, if a lot of schools/areas/etc was maintained from the start, and not just left to rot, then complete overhauls, which are very time consuming, would never be needed. There has to be something said for preventative maintenance, and we all saw this state of hz coming from before the merge...

[LaughingOtter]

Just keep in mind, if a lot of schools/areas/etc was maintained from the start, and not just left to rot, then complete overhauls, which are very time consuming, would never be needed. There has to be something said for preventative maintenance, and we all saw this state of hz coming from before the merge...

What would you be saying if they had refused to do anything new until everything was 'finished'? You'd be griping about the game being stagnant and demanding new content.Personally, I'd rather seethings generally left alone until time and resources permit a well-done, thoughtful, considered overhaul instead of constantchanges and tweaks.

[AA0]

Would I?
Maintenance is just that... maintenance. It doesn't require excessive amounts of time, and it wouldn't interfer with all the content, just some. Right now the game is in a much worse state than it could be, things don't even hit the dev radar until its been beaten dead, and been rotting for a month. If timely small adjustments were made quickly, like the multimob exp, instead of waiting for months on end... this game would be in a whole other condition. Group exp is another area that needs attention again... will it get any? highly unlikely there, it was left to rot, never readjusted...

New content still comes, it always should, but maintaining what you have, making sure things work and work as intended... or as best it can given the conditions need to be given higher priorities.
Seriously, just how many months do you want Lesser Arodoth and New Trismus to be a mess and driving away new players? There are many complaints from new players, something that shouldn't happen when you are new to a game.

[LaughingOtter]

The biggest complaints I hear about NT & LA are:

1) Lack of quests. Apparently, killing 20 gruok for the fun of it is a grind, but killing then because an NPC asks you to is exciting and rewarding. [;)] Mostly this seems to come from folks moving from WoW or EQ2.

2) The monk, spiritist, and druid trainers are hard to find, assuming you even know they're out there. I agree, they should be in town.

3) Money and how to make it. See issue 1.

4) Lag in NT.

Other than the lag, these complaints are based on how people play the game. I'd like to see more quests everywhere, not just in NT, but that doesn't mean the area is a mess. Plenty of people say "oh, OK" and press on successfully. Most of the issues seem to be with new biped players and I expect the biped tutorial revamp will take care of a lot of that. Most of the complaints about 1 & 3 seem to arise because the player expects quests as teaching tools when you start. I can see that point, but those quests belong in the tutorial, as on Skalkaar.

NT and LA need a little fine tuning and some finishing touches; they are not "a mess". Almost all of the complaints I hear in New Player Assistance cease to be issuesif the player is willing to listen to the advice they're offered. Some people do quit, most often after a lot of moaning about what crap everything is and how they get 400 FPS with EQ2 at max settings on a gaming rig that would make Deep Blue feel underpowered.

If you're bound and determined to find something to complain about, you're going to find it no matter what else has been done or is being done to make things better.

[Guaran]

Something they've done has really made Dragons take off as a common class that new subs pick and stick with. The new tutorial is probably a pretty big part of that.

The new biped tutorial is probably something that should be at the very near top of the list for the design team.


The other teams resposible for bug fixes... I would agree with many of the points made by the original poster. Goofy little things like padded cloth wristbands (that look all poofy and don't look like the color they are dyed with.) Things like that would be nice if someone fixes them.

I am glad the yew staffs are being fixed in next patch, they've been uncraftable for about a month now.