Feedback About Novians (again)

[Helcat]

For the love of [ insert deity of your choice here ]
could we PLEASE be permitted to store our Novians
in a personal storage structure...

This is the third time I've been rebuilding on my plot,
only to accidentally pull out several hundred of a Novian
product from the vault to my cargo disk, and now I am
stuck with them there until I either A) figure out some other
way to use them on the plot or B) delete them all.

In the mean time, they sit in my disk, which will remain
unusable to me until I finally give in and delete...

[AA0]

*attunes Helcat*

[Helcat]

=>.<=

[Varangaard]

I've understood that attuned items - like novians - have, instead of a character ID based ownership / non-tradability flag, a simple flag that prohibits trading. Thus, in order for this system to work, they have to prohibit placing any attuned items to structures through which they could be traded to others.

I'd like to be able to store novians outisde vault too, but that'll require a rewrite of the present attune system.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Just unattune them already. The purpose of attunement did not do its job and when brought to the attention of the devs they had no interest is making it function to its purpose.

So just get rid of the attunement already. It's wasted.

[Guaran]

Just unattune them already. The purpose of attunement did not do its job and when brought to the attention of the devs they had no interest is making it function to its purpose.

So just get rid of the attunement already. It's wasted.

Agreed. Atunned novians are wasting away. I've deleted 150 glowing spheres. And marble construction blocks I got from a present.

Attuning, even of the rare weapons.. whats the point? Quest items. Whats the point?

They gone and gotten all attune happy, even the old Helm of Keen Sight are now attuned upon equipping. Again, whats the point?

Just get rid of attunement for most things. Maybe certain quest items need to be attuned, but nothing else I can think of needs to be.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

No, now I can totally see a point in attuning rare gear. I'm TOTALLY not asking that rare gear be made unattuned. JUST the novians.

Attuning specific gear means people will be less likely to hoard more than they can use. Aroah's crystal for one off the top of my head. With attunement, the crystal now works as intended. Only able to obtain one instead of spamming the quest ten times to get ten crystals because you stored the previous one you got in a structure.

Attunement is working as intended for everything else BUT novians. That's why novians should have their attunement removed. I see no reason to unattune anything else

[Goriax]

I think unattuned novians would mess up the game. Pretty soon there would be a thriving market in novians. Heh, forget about having someone craft on your lair or plot. Forget about buying or selling construction materials. Just buy and sell novians.Crafters who wanted to take part in the building economy but didn't have aplot or lair they could use to churn out novians would be SOL.

As I recall, novians were originally introduced during the merge to give people with built up plots a way to transfer their effort to the new server. That was a good reason for them. They've gone downhill since.Later they relented and made novians a way to redesign your plot without having to do all the work all over again. In my mindthat waskind of iffy but that's what they did. But at least so far they're mainly used as a way to give flexability to the person who did the work originally. This would totally short circuit that.

Yes I know about the exploit which lets others apply novians to your plot, but just because there's an exploit doesn't mean they have to enshrine it in official gameplay. At least with that exploit you have to trust the person who's going to be applying to your plot. Perhaps someday they can get around to plugging that exploit.

While it would be nice if novians could be stored in other places, if they can't without messing up the attunability perhaps you'll just have to work around it. It's not like you didn't know. Other games with attuned items have similar restrictions about where you can put them for the same reason.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

As I said Goriax, the entire reason they were made attuned when they introduced novian returned for deconstruction was to address using the novians for anything else but your own plot. That's not really working since people can get around the system. The devs KNOW about the exploit as well and have no interest in closing it down. If you like I'll even find the thread which this is discussed in and DBs response.

Attunement didn't stop players from raping plots. It didn't stop players from using acquired novians on other peoples plots. The only thing is did do was prevent players from placing novians on world projects which now in hind sight I think is STUPID since it's pretty obvious a lot of world projects aren't going to get built otherwise because they have no purpose to being built (there's no pot of gold at the end of those rainbows). Looks to me the didn'ts out number the dids. DIDN'TS WIN!

And heck, if there was a "thriving market" on novians at least it wouldn't be from an exploit like it is now and there would BE a market full stop since there's not much of one now.

[Goriax]

And as I've said, there's a world of difference between not closing down an exploit and making it official. Presumably they're not closing it down because it would be difficult to do so, inconvenience legitimate users, and eat up scarce dev resources when there are many other far more pressing issues which impact far more players.

I'm well aware of the thread in which people pointed out the problem with raping of plots as you call it. As I recall DB was not so impressed by your arguments as to allocate scarce developer resources to stoping that practice. If you want to preserve what's on a plot after the owner leaves, then buy it or find someone else to buy it. If you can't or won't do that, then you've given up all claim to what's on that plot.

I could probably dig that thread out too. It really doesn't have anything to do with this except in one thing. If they unattuned novians the incentive to "********" plots as you call it would be FAR stronger, since then it would be possible to do so and thenturn around and sell the novians.(You didn't mention if you wanted the novians consignable but it wouldprobably be the next big novian whine if they became unattuned).At least now they're stuck with using the novians on their own plots or plots of people who trust them.

And as I also said, at least now the exploit has some majorlimitations. As such there really isn't a THRIVING market in novians at the moment. If there were you wouldn't see people destroying novians they can't use as people complained earlier in this thread. It would be better if the market were nonexistent, instead of merely almost nonexistent, but nothing's perfect. Let them be freely distributeable and there most certainly would be a thriving market and the ramifications would go far and wide -- and not towards a better game.

Novians were something put in outside ofthe system to make some specific things easier, they were never intended to replace the current crafting system or the current ways in which people could contribute to construction. As such they've been given limitations to prevent that from becoming widespread. Unfortunately there are loopholes which some people use to exploit, but that's no reasonto say "uh oh ten people managed to do it despite the limitations, therefore lets let EVERYONE do it." No. That would be like saying that, since people manage to break into locked houses that locks are useless and we shouldn't bother locking our doors. Not true. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it's worthless. Just reducing a practice is useful and having novians attuned definately reduces the practice.

We can argue about how much of a market there is now. That's for another thread.But I don't think letting something like novians replace the current system is the answer for any such issues.

If they unattuned novians, it wouldn't be long at all until most plot and lair owners had a little area set aside to build chambers/buildings and then deconstruct them for novians. Maybe for some people on this thread this doesn't seem like a bad thing, but to me it sounds pretty bad.

-----------------

My counter proposal to this would be to remove novians from the game. Let people use what they currently have, but from now on you don't get novians when you deconstruct something. Unless there's another server merge, the original reason for novians is ancient history. Incidentally, if they stopped giving novians for deconstructed structures, it would also stop the "raping" of plots for novians.

I'm only proposing that half facitiously. As TG listens to threads such as this, this artificat which was introduced for one specific event (server merge) would be used more and more to short cut the existing ways of doing construction. Reminds me of the old proverb about letting the camel stick it's nose into your tent. First it's a nose, then a head, then a neck, before you know it you're sharing your tent with a camel.

First they wanted to reintroduce novians to make it easier to rearrange a plot. Now it's make them unattuned. Tomorrow it'll be make then comsignable. No. The line has to be drawn. No more. Better to get rid of them altogether then let them continue to creep into the economy.

If you want to help someone build on their plot, then roll up your sleeves and help them lug resources over there and apply them. But don't expect to just hand them a bunch of novians.

[Eni]

If they unattuned novians, it wouldn't be long at all until most plot and lair owners had a little area set aside to build chambers/buildings and then deconstruct them for novians. Maybe for some people on this thread this doesn't seem like a bad thing, but to me it sounds pretty bad.

Anyway it wouldnt change anything. I can do nearly the same without novians. Just sell the units in an guild only consigner and apply a week later. Some more bulk but no 20% lose. And even if someoen use the Novian way. He/She still has to craft the same stuff.

[Helcat]

It's not like you didn't know. Other games with attuned items have similar restrictions about where you can put them for the same reason.

I never claimed ignorance of the way Novians work.

[Vandellia]

I personally agree that attuned novians should be alowed to be placed in lets say a house owned by the player, they are after all attuned to the player and its his/her structure so if they want to why shouldnt they be able to place them in a house/or silo if they so choose, That being said, I would also love to see a novian exchange and i think it should be as a reasonable rate like two to 1 for the next tier, The intent of the attunement was to prevent the actions that are still happening so , in that, the rational for the attunement failed miserably. If they fixed/adjusted the alloted times players could buy/sell a plot to one of each type per a fixed time frame would slow it down but im sure not eliminate it . The only other options are to eliminate novians all to gether or remove the attunement neither of those two options are truly equatable.

[Aamer Khan]

Everytime a limitation is imposed by the Developers, for whatever reason, folks will figure out a way around it. This is usually because the dev's can't foresee every possible loophole out there.

Attuning novians was a way to limit the spread of Empire owned plots from wholesale rapage. For this purpose, it has worked ok. Not perfect, but good enough to limit it down to one one or two that still try and sell novians. However, realize that many guilds have players with multiple accounts, and when moving plots around in a guild community, they will often trade plots back and forth to use any novians in the most effecient way. I'm very sure the Developers don't want to stifle that type of novian use. But if you remove attunment of novians only, the number of players "farming" novians will increase. It's only attunment that limits it now.

Vandellia's suggestion of limiting plot trading would work well in concert with attunment, to make farming novians much more painful to do. I would suggest to make it where empire owned plots could only be traded once a week. It would work like this...

Novian farmer buys plot at sanctuary bay and deconstructs everything there. Now, his vault is overfilled with novians. ( this makes it inconvient for the novian farmer ) Since the plot can only change hands once a week, now he must wait a week to resell this back to the community. So far, no real change has taken place from what it is now, except a weeks wait. Next, he must convince somebody to trust him to hold their non-guild community plot for a week, while he is trusted to place the novians on the plot. This means that the trust level must be higher than now, and that the player buying novians will be willing to wait a week to work on their plot.

I don't know about you guys, but I would never want to wait a week to work on my plot.

To sum up...

Limit Empire owned plots only to changing hands once a week.

Do not limit Guild community sub-plot trading at all.

Keep novian attunement.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Aamer, that was already suggested previously when the issue of plot raping was raised. It got turned down by DB himself. Who knows, maybe they could change their mind but I'm not counting on it.

And I personally feel 1 week isn't long enough and the original proposed time of a month is better. :)


Helcat, sorry for taking your post off topic. I still feel getting rid of attunement altogether would be the choice solution as it seems that coding to allow attuned novians to be placed in plot structures would be a nightmare and SOMETHING would end up getting messed up as well I'm sure.

Actually, if they would just get around to putting in the novian trading system which was proposed, accepted, and said to be worked on for implimentation (but has since been pushed back) I think anyones obsolete novian woes would be solved.

[Guaran]

One thing to remember is that thre are plenty of people who have novians in thier vault, from thier own previous plots, or guild plots. where no razing or eploitive action ever took place. Take my vault. I have novians from the merger batch still. ocassionally they are used on t1 construction ( were used) on various plots in my guild. Now I can't do that without a bunch of plot trading, which I can't do because all accounts in my guild already own plots. there's no free account with which to be the temporary middle man. It's a royal pain, and all those are basically wasting away. The reason I have so many was because i refused to sell, what the guild as a whole worked hard to acquire. That topic was brought up in the guild shortly after merger and we had won our guild settlement. What to do with leftovers? Save them i said.

Now I am stuck with them all on one account. Can't use them for other guild uses, which granted has only been fluff stuff at this point like fountain, trees bushes etc. But still. Thanks to some jackasses who razed plots I can't use perfectly good novians for my guild any longer. I held all novians on one account for simplicity. And why did all my old per merger novians get changed into the new attuned ones anyway!??? I did not see any notice that was going to happen, and thats how 150 glowing spheres got wasted (pulled out of a guild structure to move them into a different one and whoops attuned GRR).

So argue all you want, bet there aregood people who were negatively impacted by novian attunement.


The 1 week or 1 month limit on how soon a plot could be sold, seems like a great idea. If someone razed a plot, well we got 1 week to see who it was. I've no doubt that if attunement was removed, some new razing could and would take place. I still believe novians don't need to be attuned, and that another way can be found around this mess. Maybe a "History of ownership" for all plots. that shows all the previous owners. Deed or something. with short history of additions or deletions that account made. And on plots owned less than 30 days, any deconstruction places a 1 week wait for the plot can be sold. This would slow way down any razing, give people time to see who it was, and let tulga monitor whether or not it's really an issue moving forward.

[Star-Fyre]

I really have no trouble with the idea of Novians being atuned. I too made the same mistake of pulling out too many, and being stuck with them till I did some masive deleting in my vault. Yeah, I lost alot that I didn't want to loose either.

Thing was... I took the novians out because I thought they were at bulk 0. (I didn't check, and somehow thought they were bulk 0.) In all honesty, would making them bulk 0 be all that bad? No mater the overcrowding of your vault, you could always place novians back in, and yet they would still have the full atunement.

[safaia]

I can live with attuned novians even if I don't like them being attuned.
But it would be really nice to have several formulas that allow to downgrade novian resources 1:1 and upgrade novians resources 3:1. These Formulas should base on ingenuity and need the istarian knife as tool.
Or add enchanter class formulas for transmutation these resources (and normal housebuilding resources too).

Every time I rework my plot I have hundrets of novian resources of lower tier that I no longer need, but I need tons of higher tier resources.

I don't like novians being attuned because someone worked hard to produce them. Even if they are sold, someone has put a lot of work in them. So why should they being punished if they don't need them all for their own plot? Even if someone starts to produce novians for sale, he is working hard for this. Why should someone being punished for that?

Maybe it would be a good idea to replace novian resources by normal resourches at optimum rate (1:2). None of the reasons why novians were made attuned would match then.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Guar, novians weren't attuned AFTER people had razed plots. novians were attuned as soon as structure deconstruction was put in place. It was put in as a preventative measure that DIDN'T work on 2 out of 3 counts. but yes, it still screwed everyone who had novians from the merger, and it still screws people who would like to use their not-so-ill-gotten novians for other people.

Recently, I've moved plots again. I left a very nicely sized 75x75 in order to clean up my guilds guild town of inactive account plots (unfinished or unuseful to the guild/area) and me and the main guild plots owner went through and totally reorganized the place. My alt which I used to do the cleaning up, after placing novians and rebuilding shops and silos on the main plot and also building up a fellow guildies plot, still has 112K+/3k in her vault. lol So unless I can find a LOT of places for that throughout my guildies, her vault is screwed until some solution presents itself.


Safaia, I think that would be an AWESOME solution but for one problem.. In my case of my alt holding the novians, my alt has ZERO crafting schools. I refuse to give her any either. She is my completely non-crafter character. That's what Merri and Es are for (my main and my Dragon). So I would unfortunately still be left with the novians I have with no way of up/downgrading them. I doubt I am the only person who would be stuck that way either. But it's definately a good solution for those who can craft. The novian exchange NPC would really just be the best, all around solution though I think.

[Imayo]

I just wish I could apply them to plots owned by guildies or at least on community projects. I have no problem with the attuning or bulk of them otherwise