Dragon Resurrection Spell

[Britt Tigahare]

Heh, ok. I am confused no longer [:D]

[AA0]

Regrowth does heal during battle, but its just a really poor spell that heals a tiny bit over long periods.

Syphons all heal once, the syphon ability has a 5 min timer, and the theft of life are 1 min timers. The ethereal leech/ethereal paroxysm heal over time, but no where close to the amounts that a syphon will.

CoT is just abusive, its better to compare spiked scales to any of the other damage shields in the game.

Dear fear is just a mez, not a stun.

[Tantalyr]

The point of my original post here was not to suggest that Ancient Dragons' abilities/skills/spells are superior to any biped schools equivalent ability/skill/spell, but to point out that a biped would have to multiclass at least three, and more likely four, different adventuring schools to obtain all of the Ancient's equivalent abilities.

The same goes for dragon crafting. By analogy (predicated on the base resources associated with the school), each time a dragon levels in crafting he effectively levels blacksmithing (mining, smelting, quarrying, stoneworking and weapon/claw making), armorer (scalecrafting) and scholar (essence harvesting/shaping and spellcrafting). And each time a dragon levels in lairshaping he effectively levels masonry, enchanting and fitting.

Accordingly, I really don't see the need--indeed I see the undesirablity--of adding even more abilities to lower level dragons.

[Britt Tigahare]

Oh? I have not seen Regrowth heal in battle at all. I can see my regeneration numbers and tested this out when I had Regrowth on me and on another character. The only regeneration numbers I saw were from Revitalize and Instant Heal and that was it. So I guess it only doesn't work for my characters?

Syphon, yes, I forgot only did once. I had it confused with Ethereal Leech and Theft of Life, but are still not the same as Drain Strike. At least not for dragons lower than ancient, the amount it heals is piddly beforehand in my opinion. I still used it because it's there but I never did rely on it as a heal. I use it even less now that it uses up hoard but I use it in an emergency when I don't feel like using Instant Heal.

But anyway, that's not what this subject was intended to be about. I agree with others who believe that dragons younger than Ancient do not require resurrection. And not having it does in no way force you to group with bipeds. I have not, nor ever did, feel the necessity with any of my characters to group with someone who can res. Would have been nice, yes, but I get along just fine without.

[Dhalin]

My main point is, is pre-adult, no wings, if you have a Dragon Party and someone dies, it abruptly ends the whole hunting party right there and then.

Nobody feels like waiting half an hour plus for someone to get back to the camp area (in fact you have to escort them there, with no flying). The last few hunting groups I had, were all abruptly ended when someone died (go figure, dragons have next to no healing spells. The Breezes just don't heal enough. I'm sorry, they just don't.).

Like I said, nobody feels like going allllll the way back to start just to escort the person who died back to where we were (which means killing all of those mobs again).

I don't like the fact how Dragons have to rely on bipeds to hunt in groups. Just like they have to rely on Bipeds for the Khutit Quest and ARoP. Dragons are supposed to be Self-Sufficient and not have to bow down to bipeds for Resurrections and Instant Healing and/or Healing spells. It really sucks when a Dragon dies and has to do all of that travelling again just to get back. Sure, maybe its not all that big of a deal once you become an adult, but let me tell you, before you become an adult, in the hatchling stage, it Sucks, becuase like I said, it usually ends the hunting party right there and then.

Bipeds get Resurrection spells kinda early, I don't see why you have to make Dragons wait until Lv100 and make this spell castable once per hour and cost 5,000 hoard. That's a bit overkill. Bipeds can just Multiclass a Cleric to get a Resurrection spell, Easily Done. Not like a Dragon has that capability. If we did, I'd use it. And once Dragons get to Adult, some of the places we hunt, we can't even take a Biped unless we wanna wait for them to walk there.

I don't see where an earlier Resurrection abillity would be "Too Powerful" or "Unbalancing". As it is, you STILL have the Death Penality even if you are Resurrected (at least the few times I've been raised, I still had DP), so its not like this magically lets you die without consequences, as that's not the case at all.

I'd see it more of a Party-Saving tool. Most people do not want to wait that long for someoen to travel back to camp... and I can understand that. I mean, come on. Wait 30, 45 minutes for someone to Recall, and Fly back to camp? Meanwhile mobs start respawning around you, and you're down 1 person. If they don't get back before you get attacked again, you might as well kiss your butt goodbye too.

If Travel weren't such a big issue in this game, then this issue probably wouldn't be as great, but the way they have it set up, a lot of the times when you join hunting parties, they are gonna be a good 30, 45 minutes from the nearest Teleport. 30-45 minutes is a LOT of time to sit around doing nothing. Surely you can understand this. For example, I was in a 3-dragon hunting party, we were killing Large/Tremendous Ruxus. 3 Hatchlings. All was going well until we got an add and of course, since there are no decent Healing spells, we just couldn't handle it. Oh, that's another point I'll bring up. The sheer Difficulty in trying to TANK mobs. The mobs were utterly GLUED onto my GF's dragon and I could not get them off her. I tried targeting one of the mobs that she never even touched. I GOLD RAGED it and it STILL attacked her. The other dragon did the same with the third mob on her. A few moments later she died, then my party member died.

I managed to kill the last 2 mobs (barely). They recalled, and of course, the 3rd person said "Blah, it'd take me half an hour to get there. Screw this...I'm logging off."

Of course, we couldn't really take those mobs with just my GF and I so.. its like "well. I guess we're not hunting anymore tonight." ... had I a Resurrection spell, OR if mobs were easier to Tank (that is, more logical AI/Enmity/Hate/Aggro system), OR, if we dragons had more than ONE Instant Heal, one Decent Breeze, That might have gone a little better.

--Dhalin

[Tantalyr]

A couple of quick points, Dhalin . . . .

1) If the members of a hunting group take the precaution of binding at the nearest shrine (whether it be a town, guildhall, or what-have-you) to where they will be hunting, it won't take any member but a few minutes to recall and get back to the group, not the half an hour you suggest. Unless of course you're hunting on Fire Island, but I doubt that you are if you can't fly yet.

2) I personally never depended on having a biped Healer or Cleric whenever I hunted, either solo or in a group. They were certainly a welcome addition to any group I was in, but hardly ever a requisite. When I died (and 95% of the time it was my own bloody fault that I did) I never whined and moaned that there wasn't a rezzer nearby.

3) Single-schooled bipeds can make exactly the same argument you do here. Why can't a Spearman rez? Why can't a Crossbowman rez? Why can't a mage rez? The answer is because the devs made the design decision (and a good one in my view) that not every single player class should be able to rez. Each has different strengths and weaknesses, just as in RL. Just as in fantasy lore. Conan couldn't rez either.

[Britt Tigahare]

Dragons don't have to rely on bipeds for hunting...period. My dragons have done fine without them. Melthana is level 35 and has done everything by herself so far and has died ONCE, by sheer stupidity. She has been fully capable of doing all her quests starting at the level she was able to (10, 20, 30) and can actually, much to my surprise, take on things 5 levels higher. She took on Hehanto (named Tremendous Ruxus, level 40) at level 35, I seriously did not expect her to live. But she did, and that was a named mob no less.

The point is strategy. If you are getting adds you don't want, you can easily move to where you don't get them. One of the level 30 quests is to kill Large/Tremendous Ruxus. She did Tremendous. She got absolutely no adds, because she pulled one to a safe spot, killed it and then pulled another. If one hatchling can do it, two or three certainly can. And no way does it take a half an hour to get there, unless you are running from the wrong spot.

[Dhalin]

Even if you bind at the nearest shrine, before you can fly, it STILL takes 30+ minutes to get there. Like the Ruxus camp example.

It takes nearly 30 minutes to Recall, Load Up, and Walk back to where the Tremendous Ruxus are. And that's If you Bound to the Bristugo shrine. Add 5-10 min if you were bound to any other shrine in the game, and this is *Bristugo* we're talking about, the Kinda-Sorta center of the game. Let alone somewhere Else.

Another Example...it takes me 20-30 min to get from any town to the Citrine Golem camp at Trandalar. It'd really suck to die there in a group with no rez.

And your thing about Single-Classed Bipeds.... ANY one of those can Multiclass, np. They CAN use those abilities, but they CHOOSE not too. A Dragon has no choice, even if they WANTED the choice. If you are a Biped... you want res? Level Cleric or Healer. If you're a Dragon and you want Rez?

You're SOL. Period.

--Dhalin

[Tantalyr]

Even if you bind at the nearest shrine, before you can fly, it STILL takes 30+ minutes to get there. Like the Ruxus camp example.

It takes nearly 30 minutes to Recall, Load Up, and Walk back to where the Tremendous Ruxus are. And that's If you Bound to the Bristugo shrine. Add 5-10 min if you were bound to any other shrine in the game, and this is *Bristugo* we're talking about, the Kinda-Sorta center of the game. Let alone somewhere Else.

Good heavens! Either you have a slow connection or you're the slowest hatchling I've ever seen. It's never taken me (as a hatchling with NO speed buffs) more than ten minutes maximum to run from Bristugo, down the road, and up Dalimond Ridge. And unless it's one of the very few times I hang up while recalling it doesn't take me more than sixty seconds to recall and load up. And that's with the splash screen on.

Another Example...it takes me 20-30 min to get from any town to the Citrine Golem camp at Trandalar. It'd really suck to die there in a group with no rez.

They're a two-minute jog from Trandalar: Valley of the Moon port pad. You might try attuning there before heading out on your next Trandalar citrine golem hunting party.

And your thing about Single-Classed Bipeds.... ANY one of those can Multiclass, np. They CAN use those abilities, but they CHOOSE not too. A Dragon has no choice, even if they WANTED the choice. If you are a Biped... you want res? Level Cleric or Healer. If you're a Dragon and you want Rez? You're SOL. Period.

Again, different races and adventuring classes have different strengths and weaknesses. If you're unhappy playing a dragon, play a biped. If you're unhappy playing a biped, play a dragon.

[Britt Tigahare]

My thoughts exactly. It has never taken me 30 minutes to go anywhere, porting/recalling included.

It is true that bipeds have the choice, but many choose not to make that choice as it can ruin your rating. My bipeds are included in that choice because quite frankly, I see NO absolute need/desire to be able to res.

[Leviathan]

Appears to be the live update on May 24, 2004.

I bet one of those tricksy dwarves in yer office did it! Can't trust 'em

[Varangaard]

Interesting info on the dwarven toughness. I too thought it was 1000 armor, but seems not so anymore. [:)]

My opinion on dragon rez. While I like having it, and consider the price (5000 hoard) very reasonable considering I'm a melee lunus, I'm still unsure if I like the idea of providing it to ALL ancient dragons. To me, resurrection is a very defining ability of healer-type classes/builds. To be able to resurrect with my 100% melee-specced, turtle-shelled battletank, feels... odd. Even if it comes with 1-hour recycle; it's not about the frequency, but having it in first place.

[Dragoniade]

Dragons may get some abilities from other class, but it come with 2 huge prices.

- Hoard, which the cost goes up and up to a ridiculous cost sometime (5000 for a res for instance).
- Weaker or unreliable abilities. A res is fine, but once you've use it, don't rely on it another time until the next hour. The fear is nice, but the cost make it not attractive at all. A lot of 'free' abilities ended up costing stuff. And hoardable doesn't drop as good as some claim. Dragon are too weak as a farmer, and farming is the best way to get hoard.

Dragons are good at single, tough moster though. But it cost them a LOT of hoard.

As for crafting, we may level skills from what may belong to multiple classes, but we lower them FAR below their average, with no way to counterbalance them.

A dragon leveling the skills of a miner and armorer (mining, smelting, scalecraft) will never be able to get close to a biped leveling miner AND armorer

[Dhalin]

Another thoughtI had on the way to work earlier....

Each Race and Class has its specialties. This I fully accept. But when 1 group of races is far unbalanced compared to another group of races, that's when I question things. Let me explain more about that.

A Biped Cannot:

1). Fly.
2). Build on a Dragon Lair.

A Dragon Cannot:

1). Heal Outright more than once/5 min.
2). Resurrect until Lv100.
3). Harvest/Process some of the materials a biped can.
4.) Build on anything But a Dragon Lair.
5). Make items required for 2 of his/her own major quests.
6). Go through the game without being Forced to find/buy hoard items to use their best abilities and obtain stat bonuses.

So you see the list is kinda Unbalanced, don't you think? The only 2 things dragons really get is Flight and Dragon Lairs... yet Bipeds get so much more. If a Biped wants to have high armor and melee well, they pick to be a Warrior. If a Biped wants to Heal and Resurrect, they pick to be a Cleric. But the kicker is, if they want to wear armor AND heal/resurrect, then they level cleric and switch to warrior.

And what does an Ancient Lv100 dragon want with Resurrection anyways? Outside of killing Optional High High level mobs, what does a Lv100 Dragon -do-? He is unable to level any further, he can't switch to another class, he could help other dragons through RoP and ARoP, true, but.... when you reach Lv100 Adventure, you're pretty much done with the majority of fighting, right? Most Ancients I see nowadays usually are working on either Hoard, or Lairshaping. By the time you reach Lv100, the number of times you needed Rez (or wish another dragon had Rez) far far outnumbers the times you will actually Use (or be) Ressed by a Dragon.

It falls under that "too little too late" category, really.

I play both a dragon and a biped. Why do I play a dragon? Because over the course of all of my text-based roleplay, I love playing dragons. I like dragons.. I just do. Why did I start a biped? For relaxation. See, I started a Saris... I wanted to be a Warrior, but I also wanted Healing spells, because I wanted to take a break from being a Dragon who can only Heal himself once per 5 min not counting the HoT breezes. So I started a Warrior, and have been keeping Cleric levelled as well. Right now, he has Lv10 Warrior Lv10 Cleric. I took him out, South of Kion... and fought some Beetles... and good gawd.... this guy is a freaking GOD compared to my dragon. Those beetles could barely touch me. Yet if I were to take my Lv10 dragon down there to fight those Lv15 beetles... he woulda gotten his butt kicked.. and that's just sad. And to make it worse, I COULD stack on yet another class on that that has parallel abilities usable by Warrior and Cleric if I wanted to, and make him even MORE godly...

--Dhalin

[Seranthor]

Dhalin,

Things to add to your lists, and corrections to your glaring errors that exist therein.

bipeds cannot
3). rez, ever, except for certain classes
4). cant fight >40 rating points higher that they are and expect to survive unless heavily multiclassed.
5). harvest/process some of the materials a dragon can.
6). Go through the game without being Forced to find hoard items by the dozensand having no use for it while they are actually looking for tech comps/trophies.

dragons cannot.
2). rez prior completion of parts of Arop, (its NOT 100)

Additionally, perhaps you'd be best served to examine your fighting style if your getting your dragon tail handed back to you by mobs your level or lower, I assure you something is amiss.

I too thought like you about what's a dragon to do when they get to 100, I found out, clearly you haven't yet because yourmusing about not knowing, and I'm sure some day you'll find that answer for yourself in time.

[Eni]

Dragon are too weak as a farmer, and farming is the best way to get hoard.

Not True. Dragons can "farme" nice. At level 90 i had no Problems with big numbers of fireopal golems and t4 blights. Big in this case means all i could get in pull range. And i never managed to lower my hoard .Drop always was higher than my burnout.

And to the rezz. Main part of biped schools will never be able to rezz.

[Dragoniade]

Not True. Dragons can "farme" nice. At level 90 i had no Problems with big numbers of fireopal golems and t4 blights. Big in this case means all i could get in pull range. And i never managed to lower my hoard .Drop always was higher than my burnout.

And to the rezz. Main part of biped schools will never be able to rezz.

Ugh. You did a very BAD comparaison.
T4 blight are 10-20 level or so below your.
Golem always have been cheapcake for any race.

Try fighthing something that actually drop something valuable, like wolves, or other critter that actually hit for some damage.

[Dragoniade]

Dhalin,

Things to add to your lists, and corrections to your glaring errors that exist therein.

bipeds cannot
3). rez, ever, except for certain classes
4). cant fight >40 rating points higher that they are and expect to survive unless heavily multiclassed.
5). harvest/process some of the materials a dragon can.
6). Go through the game without being Forced to find hoard items by the dozensand having no use for it while they are actually looking for tech comps/trophies.

Yes they can. They have the option to. They have a choice to choose their path. Dragon don't.
And that goes for all of those points.

3- Any biped can choose to do 15 level in one of the healer class for a basic rez.
4- A biped can chose to level his character to fight level 40+ monster easily. And with the abilitiy for the same biped to level a tank AND healing, they can take those monster a lot easier than dragons.
5- Biped cannot process crystal, period. And dragon cannot process: water, sand, skins, foods, plant, tree, etc.
6- Dragon are forced to find items by the dozen they cannot use in any way (bligthed sword, armor, events, trophies worth hundred time less than a trophies, biped ressource).

And lets add,
7- Dragon, once they reached level 100, are forced to waste all their experiences in adventuring since they have no gain to get anymore.

[AA0]

A biped might be able to multiclass to gain the res spell, but they are far more classes that can't use that spell than can use it. If you want to be a zerker, there is no way at all you can res. End of story.

I would be hard pressed to find too many classes that are able to take mobs 40 levels rating than their rating. The more multiclassed you become, the less efficient you get per your rating... once you hit 120 rating you just end up wasting more and more

[Eni]

3- Any biped can choose to do 15 level in one of the healer class for a basic rez.

Wrong.