Blight Update - March 24, 2006

[Vahrokh]

Helian and lunus are fairly meaningless terms these days.

You made the Dormant Ancient wake up.

Lunus is plenty meaningful, since centuries, thank you. [H]

OK then. Its just quarrying/spellcrafting are in chiconis, would just make sense that stoneworking be in chiconis

Well, we are still all dragons. Lunus have their point of view on bipeds but we are talking about dragons teaching to dragons, so it's fine.

Not to me.

I am not sure you recall me from the old times, Amon. I still "love" you.

Still recalling you fixing those dragon skills database inconsistencies during long IRC chats.

Because of committed people like you, I still pay for this game even if I take "short pauses" of 6 months. [Y]


By the way, thanks for this way, way long awaited trainer.

Ultimately the decision was made because Saphias is a Lunus. And Lunus reside in Dralk. Saphias isn't likely to have a change of heart with regards to the faction it follows. A naka is still a naka and needs to be dominated.

Eh eh can I have scaly babies with you? [B]

as we all know how hide bound the Lunus are and they will not want to develop anything new.

As convinced Lunus (read my "story" on the lore forums, if it's still here) I always loved to craft, one of those who levelled to 100 craft well before 100 adv.

Lunus won't want to share anything new with bipeds but they indeed want to progress themselves.

Never had many trouble "sharing" anything with fellow Helians either, some Lunus are not expecially "Helian enemies", we are all dragons after all.
It's just the biped interaction that we are not so cool with [:P]

[Guaran]

Dragoniade you are really making a big deal out of nothing.

Like Vahrokh said, it's Dragons teaching Dragons.

Even the political factions aren't as disparate as they used to be. Lunus and Helian are closer now. Lunus deal with bipeds when it comes to hoard. Helians rival the Lunus when it comes to melee fighting. Now if Dragons could learn better healing arts, you could see a good Lunus healer....

[Deth]

I understand where Dragoniade is coming from. As a Helian I woul dlike to see more content love for Chiconis. I know it's teh Dev's lore and understand as our home city Dralk should have more stuff, but I would still like to see more then 1 or 2 dragons in Chiconis when I am there. Even Helians spend more time in Dralk then they ever spend in Chiconis. Thats why I have done all the mine work in Chiconis, hoping that the Elders would have also planed a Grand Hall for Chiconis so us Helians could have a place to meet and talk. But that did not happen was just a mine is all. I would like to see it less of a ghost town is all.

[Death-knell]

Seems to me the Lunus ancient trainers would be more likely to move to chiconis. Have you seen the number of bipedsin dralklately.

[imported_Lycaunoss]

They both have structures made of stone so I see little difference between them in that regards. But, if we get down to it, Dralk is the original home city of the dragons, Chiconis the exile city. So I would expect more dragons to reside in dralk than chiconis. Also, with the gate of embers and lairshaper there, more dragons would tend to congregate in dralk than chiconis.

Ultimately the decision was made becauseSaphias is a Lunus. And Lunusreside in Dralk. Saphias isn't likely to have a change of heart with regards to the faction it follows. A naka is still anaka and needs to be dominated.

And I was planning on asking about this myself in IRC later today. Glad I came here first.

I'm thinking that (as usual) we cannot see the big picture here. Dev's decided that new trainer is a Lunas then new trainer is a Lunas simple as that and Dralk is the only appropriate city for such an individual to set up shop. I also believe that there are more Lunas dragons than Helian flying around out there.

We moaned at the devs until they gave us something. We asked for it and they've finally delivered. It's a cookie cutter quest so that we can have the skill boost. I find it difficult to complain about the faction not making sense and the lore not lining up neatly.

[Deth]

I should say I am not mad at the fact the quest is cookie cutter. I was one of the ones asking for the quest even if they were cookie cutter. I am just more pointing on the lack of content in Chiconis and requesting more content could be added there. But I assume and hope some of that will be added with the T2 revamp. Should be intresting what kind of quest they add in and around Chiconis for bipeds to show thier respect to us dragons and in time what "biped slave" quest get added to Dralk.

[LaughingOtter]

Why is Saphias a lunus? because some dev labeled him such. Hardly a convincing argument.

Why is the Imperial Spell Vendor in New Trismus a Helian? "because some dev labeled him such"

"Helian and Lunus are largly meaningless terms" - Hardly. Allow me to draw back the curtain a little and provide an example of the kind of things that go into designing and placing an NPC.

Some time back, Manga asked me to write the greeting dialog for three new NPCs - the Imperial Spell Vendors. The Kion & Sslanis NPCs were pretty straightforward as far as race & the kind of voices they would have, but not the New Tris vendor.Without knowing the race andhaving at least a little background on an NPC, there's really no way to write anything but very generic dialog that sounds like a corporate mission statement. So, we started brainstorming.

The first key factor in shaping our new NPC was the fact that none of the starter islands have ever had dragon NPCs outside of the dragon craft & adventure trainers, which the biped players barely if ever interacted with. The starter islands exist to introduce the new player to the world and to the background story as well as teach basic gameplay. Making the NT spell vendor a dragonmodels the idea of the races associating freely andworking together. Making him an adult adds a little bit of wonder to the brand-new player's experience, which is not a bad thing at a time when you want to grab their interest and hold it long enough to to convince trial players to subscribe.

Fine, we have an adult dragon. Does it matter what faction he is? Yes indeed, very much so! Manga picked Helian for two reasons: because the lore supports Helians as having a more scholarly mindset, which is appropriate for a spell vendor; and because a Lunus, if written properly, would at best be forcibly polite if not downright hostile. That's great once players know the world and are used to dealing with Lunus attitudes. It's not something to spring on the aformentioned trial users who are still making up their minds if they want to subscribe.

Even though our new NPC is a Helian, he's not going to speak with a meek or humble voice. Helian and Lunus are in agreement that bipeds need to be dominated and controlled in order to protect future generations of dragons;they disagree only in how this should be done. Our new NPC needs to represent the Helian faction and be approachable but still dignified and draconic.It's a great chance to present a little lore and hopefully spark some interest and curiosity in the new players, but he also has a job to do and has to communicate that clearly to the new player.

At this point I could finally start writing.

I can't make a blanket statement that all NPCs get this much thought & consideration when it comes to background and goals. However, due to the resources a new NPC consumes just by existing, adding one is not done lightly. Sometimes there may be factors in play that the players don't know about yet, and those factors could have a strong influence on how an NPC takes shape.

[Death-knell]

Thats all well and good LO. But has nothing to do with the stoneworking trainer. He is a dragon teaching dragons about stoneworking. Yes stoneworking is used in scalecrafting, but its the heart of spellcasting.

Plain and simple, there is no lore that states whether a stoneworking master would be helian or lunus and since it is a dragon teaching dragons no tolerance or consideration for bipeds need to be given. But it would make sense thata master of stoneworking would be helian, every spell shard needs it while every scale doesn't require stoneworking.

Again, its a label assigned by the devs no more no less.

[Justa Mirage]

It's like a refridgerator salesman trying to sell them to eskimos with a bonus ice maker built into the door...

Maybe the Lunus dragon stoneworking trainer is forced into this teaching job (Just like "Breath of Fire" was "summoned by force" to guard the summoner's tower... I just can't imagine a power that can "bind" a dragon to a tower to guard it... but maybe our new Lunus dragon trainer will have some witty dialogue on what a crappy job this is, and why must "I" do it, I would rather be out getting my claws bloody mauling some wolves or something instead of being a babysitter to other dragons wishing to learn how to stonework better.

[LaughingOtter]

It's like a refridgerator salesman trying to sell them to eskimos with a bonus ice maker built into the door...

Actually the Inuit need refrigerators too. The temperature outdoors is not controlled, so food spoilage is still a concern. You don't know who's been doing what on that ice andat -50, your beer freezes and explodes if you leave it outside. Aside from all that, the last thing you want is for a group of bears to decide your house is a take-out joint.

[Guaran]

Well the lore spellcrafter reason in itself seems valid. But really the Lunus are just as much crafters as Helians. The crafting component of Draconic society isn't really a political component. They do not have anything to do with each other.

The lore says (paraphrased) that "Helians are more scholarly" perhaps this just means some of the older lore is kept by the Helians. Lore and knowledge pertaining to, or obtained from the naka. The Lunus at that time were very stubborn regarding the naka, where-as the Helians felt something could possibly be learned from the naka. This in itself satisfies the "Helians are more Scholarly" bits we have heard here and there. As far as crafting in general, we all do it.

In all honesty, the possibility for rich lore could be created by having a back-story about the lunus stoneworking trainer.Some totally non-crafting related flavor. He could stay Lunus and move to Chiconis to 1) Work towards greater Dragon-Dragon co-operation 2) Stay closer to the Scholars he learned from. 3) Has a desire to see the Dragon race for the most part re-unite and move beyond the schism. He has a plan to reclaim Draak, to protect the Entombed Will, and needs Helians assistance to do that (The watchers on Draak are Helians. In fact, the lost colony could have been a second Helian founded community originally)

It could easily be expanded upon.

Or (instead), the Smelting Trainer could find his way to Chiconis (as a Lunus), and the same reasons could be used to flesh out some nice lore. I always liked the long story the Guard in Chiconis tells. Seems like there could be more like that. The story could be accessible without interfering/requiring the player to be a dragon or working on the crafting mastery quests.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Can you pawn refurbished tools like you can pawn the armor and weapons? If so, what prevents someone from loading up at the blacksmith and pawning the whole bunch, rinse-repeat?

[LaughingOtter]

Plain and simple, there is no lore that states whether a stoneworking master would be helian or lunus and since it is a dragon teaching dragons no tolerance or consideration for bipeds need to be given.

Quite true. This NPC happens to be Lunus. Perhaps he's been battling the "Lunus don't craft!!!" stereotype all his life and is hoping to provide a positive example to Lunus everywhere by showing them that crafting is nothing to be ashamed of!

Down with oppressive stereotyping! Let the brother live his own life! Help, help, he's being repressed! [:@]

Seriously, the only issue here is that this trainer doesn't fit your expectations. I don't see any rush to set up picket lines and sit-ins demanding that the gold rage & reach trainers be relocated to Dralk so they can be with all the other melee trainers. Gold rage is the quintessential draconic melee ability, yet it is taught by a HELIAN. If you're going to nitpick on consistency, you better be prepared to apply it across the board. Anything less is intellectually dishonest.

[Dragoniade]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Death-Knell wrote:
Plain and simple, there is no lore that states whether a stoneworking master would be helian or lunus and since it is a dragon teaching dragons no tolerance or consideration for bipeds need to be given.

Quite true. This NPC happens to be Lunus. Perhaps he's been battling the "Lunus don't craft!!!" stereotype all his life and is hoping to provide a positive example to Lunus everywhere by showing them that crafting is nothing to be ashamed of!

Down with oppressive stereotyping! Let the brother live his own life! Help, help, he's being repressed! [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-12.gif[/img]

Seriously, the only issue here is that this trainer doesn't fit your expectations. I don't see any rush to set up picket lines and sit-ins demanding that the gold rage & reach trainers be relocated to Dralk so they can be with all the other melee trainers. Gold rage is the quintessential draconic melee ability, yet it is taught by a HELIAN. If you're going to nitpick on consistency, you better be prepared to apply it across the board. Anything less is intellectually dishonest.

Following the same pattern, Gold Surge would have been teached by a Lunus trainer... if it hadn't been canned.

The issue here is not a single NPC being a Lunus while it should have been Helian; it's the incessant Helians degradation the DEV keep throwing at the factions, either by placing all NPC into Dralk, or cancelling long awaited Helians abilities.

[Death-knell]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Death-Knell wrote:
Plain and simple, there is no lore that states whether a stoneworking master would be helian or lunus and since it is a dragon teaching dragons no tolerance or consideration for bipeds need to be given.

Quite true. This NPC happens to be Lunus. Perhaps he's been battling the "Lunus don't craft!!!" stereotype all his life and is hoping to provide a positive example to Lunus everywhere by showing them that crafting is nothing to be ashamed of!

Down with oppressive stereotyping! Let the brother live his own life! Help, help, he's being repressed! [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-12.gif[/img]

HUH?

Seriously, the only issue here is that this trainer doesn't fit your expectations. I don't see any rush to set up picket lines and sit-ins demanding that the gold rage & reach trainers be relocated to Dralk so they can be with all the other melee trainers. Gold rage is the quintessential draconic melee ability, yet it is taught by a HELIAN. If you're going to nitpick on consistency, you better be prepared to apply it across the board. Anything less is intellectually dishonest.

Why would the reach trainer be in dralk? As to the rest of the silliness, those trainers were setup and running. Where this NEW trainer was just put on blight and a few of us were stating an opinion. I really don't care where the trainers are placed. A discussion was started so I joined in.