Dark World Online

[Deth]

There are a couple reasons Why I would not see a COV/COV working here. First they would have to set up a section of the world some where else where thier are living races, Which might be doable as there is no lore there thier is not such a section. But to me I get the feeling that we are the last bastion of the living in the world. Also unlike COV the WA(Villians do not fight other WA(villians).

To add the PVP Zones again they would have to open new Areas that the living could go. WHich would not be too hard would be just Islands some where. Where the living could get a foot hold or maybe go to clear the areas off to get a foot hold.

But then comes the biggest problem. The classes are not balance in any way shape or form. The screams of So and So can go in and wipe out every WA player as if they were no playing. Or such and such class is usless. There is no way that the current multi-class system can be balanced, and to have a PVP system you have to have some form of balance.

And finaly my fear that still looms and they will never answer is such develpment and more then likely this development will be taking Devs away from Horizons. Unless they were able to get enough of a cash boost from the 2 deals they offered to get a nest egg to fund the development of the next game. WHich if they did would really piss me off as I belive that that cash should have been used to get horizon fixed so they could prove the can do it for the next game. But who knows maybe they have got some new investors for the new game which would be good to hear.

[Lycaunoss]

White Wolf did not invent vampires, werewolves, or monster hunters. There's a huge pile of prior art - heck, you could point to 'Dracula vs. the Wolfman' as prior art.

White Wolf tried suing Sony over Underworld; that got settled out of court and White Wolf stopped talking about the movie. To me, that says that Sony wanted the matter to just go away and WW's lawyers advised their clients to take the money and be happy. If WW had won, you can be sure they would have been publicising it in order to scare off anyone else who might want to try to use their IP.

So, methinks a lawsuit - one that has merit, anyway - is not very likely.

Well from what I understand about copyrights and such is that they must sue if it's similar to the world they've created to protect their rights to it. That's why some authors go mental when people write fiction using their world or characters.

Underworld is a violation of WW's copyright. It's way too close to WW's stuff not to have been influenced by it. The difference is that Sony paid for it. If it was such an easy defense then they would have done it I think.

Lastly I'd think that even a frivolous lawsuit would hurt TG and is probably something to be avoided.

[LaughingOtter]

Well from what I understand about copyrights and such is that they must sue if it's similar to the world they've created to protect their rights to it. That's why some authors go mental when people write fiction using their world or characters.

Use of specific characters and settings is a different issue. Use of similar ideas and themes is not defacto copyright infringement. When V:tM first came out, more than one person described it as a blatant ripoff of Anne Rice.
Have a quick look at how many books Amazon has that involve vampires, werewolves, and monster hunters. Some highlights:

'Blood is Thicker Than Water', Wynette Hoffman
The Anita Blake series, Laurell K. Hamilton
The Southern Vampire series, Charlaine Harris
'Kitty and the Midnight Hour', Carrie Vaughn (Werewolf talk radio hostess starts doing a show for the Children of the Night.)
'The Nymphos of Rocky Flats', Mario Acevedo (worth checking out from the title alone. An Iraq war vet comes home with PTSD and vampirism - Imagine Mulder, Scully and the Cigarette Smoking Man appearing in an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer...)

White Wolf didn't invent the genre, and there are a lot of stories still to be told. DWO is just telling one of them.

[Tantalyr]

I took the time to Google the lawsuit filed by White Wolf against Sony, and found that the suit was NOT based upon the world created by White Wolf for their game. Rather, the suit was founded upon a copyrighted novel written by a White Wolf employee/partner, and numerous instances where Sony's movie, Underworld, borrowed directly from the novel.

Eventually, the suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount which might have been substantial, or it might have been trivial.

Understand that you cannot copyright an idea. Rather, you can only copyright the expression of that idea.

Nor can you copyright expressions of ideas already in the "general domain," meaning that you can't copyright, say, werewolves, vampires, elves, dwarves and the like. Otherwise, every fantasy game would violate somebody's copyright somewhere.

So I tend to agree with Laughing Otter. From what little we know of DWO at this stage--that it will simply be based upon werewolves vs. vampires vs. humans in a modern setting--I doubt that any suit for copyright infringement by White Wolf would have much chance of success.

[LaughingOtter]

While I don't disagree with you, Tant, White Wolf did allege that Underworld was based on the WoD; note the opening paragraph of their press release on the lawsuit:
http://www.white-wolf.com/News/underworldrelease.html

Atlanta, GA, 5 September 2003—White Wolf, Inc. and Nancy A. Collins yesterday filed suit in US District court in Atlanta, Georgia against defendants Sony Pictures, Screen Gems and Lakeshore Entertainment, alleging 17 counts of copyright infringement for the film Underworld, set for release on September 19. White Wolf alleges that Underworld characters, theme and setting are based on White Wolf’s award winning games Vampire: The Masquerade® and Werewolf: The Apocalypse™, both set in White Wolf’s fictional World of Darkness®. Further, Collins alleges that Underworld’s script is based on her 1994 story Love of Monsters, published by White Wolf and also set in the World of Darkness.

Seems to me they were asserting infringement on the WoD IP just to cover themselves, though. I don't think WW would have had any cause of action without Nancy Collins. I read 'Love of Monsters' a long time back and 'Underworld' was almost the same story, plot point by plot point.

Back on topic: So, who in the TG office is taking point on development, and when are we going to see concept art, class notes, and a forum where DWO fanbois & trolls can shake hands & come out bashing each other? ;-)

[Sarpedos]

This was nice to see... from an interview/review at MMORPG.com

"He also points to increased hiring across all projects."

Perhaps the world is not ending after all...

[Deth]

This was nice to see... from an interview/review at MMORPG.com

"He also points to increased hiring across all projects."

Perhaps the world is not ending after all...

But he did say the development team was taken from Horizons. So for a while we only have the things they have spoken of in design previews to look forward to. Nothing else new.

[evilkarl]

Play a vampire in an mmo..cool something I have wanted to do for some time. While I be able to feed on npcs? I better be able to.

I do share the concern with other players about resources being diverted from hz to dwo, its not a good thing and I can see both games suffering because of it.

BTW I think some form of alignment in DWO would be cool so you could be good or evil.

[Dremora]

These devs really need to tell us what they are planning for this DWO.

As far as concept is concerned, there are already tons of games like it. So unless it has something really special and unique, I wouldn't be interested.

I can tell that this MMO will probably be filled with idiots, too, since it is going to be PvP. I can just imagine it now, "i am so ebil im gonna pwn u" "NO IM AN ANCIENT VAMPIR IM BETTER THAN U" etc.

[tramsan]

I can't come up with a single game that is similar to this, could you give some examples?

I don't consider games that share some key qualities "similar," like a game about vampires, or a game about werewolves, or a game with three PvP factions. That would be like saying HZ is similar to WoW because both have gnomes, elves, dwarves and undead.

[Jayne]

Well just because TG is making this game doesnt mean people are obligated to play it. If its PvP and you don't like PvP then don't buy it.

I do find it interesting and I do wanna play it.

And the, this game is like that game, discussion. Well I never heard of these other games, but I have heard of and seen Underworld and liked it. So maybe advertising is the key

Jayne/Jayn

[Dremora]

I've heard of similar games, not necessarily online. Underworld or Vampire: The Masquerade comes to mind as something similar.

While it may be an interesting experience to play as a werewolf, or vampire, or even a human and fight against other players, it's the CONCEPT itself that doesn't make me interested. Vampires, werewolves and humans fighting for something like world dominance. Once again, Underworld comes to mind.

Now, it's not like I'm completely bashing PvPs altogether; I have opinions just like everyone else does, and for once I would like to give one without someone saying, "Well if you don't like it, don't buy it". Thanks for stating the obvious salution.

[Jayne]

Unfortunetely "If you don't like it, don't buy it", is the first and only thing that comes to mind when you read responses like that.

I am not bashing anyone and there opinion so please don't take it as such.

I too see the same response to the same arguement.

But lets look at this. If its to be Humans, Werewolves and Vampires fighting for world dominance then I see that PvP is the only way to go. I don't want a game like that and only be a human and wait for a war.....

[LaughingOtter]

If you have no interest in a product, why post about it at all? I could not care less about WoW or EQ2 or anything pertaining to golf, but the last thing I'd be inclined to do would be to start posting on their respective fan forums. That would make no sense.

Still hoping we get some more solid information soon, so we have something to discuss... ;-)

[Dremora]

I'm posting since this is a thread for opinions and discussion, not just "omg this looks so cool" posts. Usually, people look for opinions for what they should and shouldn't do.

Jayne, I've not been saying DWO shouldn't have PvP, because it indeed wouldn't make much sense otherwise. It's simply the storyline that I don't like. This doesn't mean I won't try it, though. I think it would be pretty cool to play as a werewolf.

[Cloe]

Use of specific characters and settings is a different issue. Use of similar ideas and themes is not defacto copyright infringement. When V:tM first came out, more than one person described it as a blatant ripoff of Anne Rice.
Have a quick look at how many books Amazon has that involve vampires, werewolves, and monster hunters. Some highlights:

'Blood is Thicker Than Water', Wynette Hoffman
The Anita Blake series, Laurell K. Hamilton
The Southern Vampire series, Charlaine Harris
'Kitty and the Midnight Hour', Carrie Vaughn (Werewolf talk radio hostess starts doing a show for the Children of the Night.)
'The Nymphos of Rocky Flats', Mario Acevedo (worth checking out from the title alone. An Iraq war vet comes home with PTSD and vampirism - Imagine Mulder, Scully and the Cigarette Smoking Man appearing in an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer...)

White Wolf didn't invent the genre, and there are a lot of stories still to be told. DWO is just telling one of them.

I absolutely loved the Anita Blake series. Necromancer's!! If only her world could be captured in a MMO... *chills* Think I would be able to put Elder Scrolls aside for awhile...

[Vlisson]

Still hoping we get some more solid information soon, so we have something to discuss... ;-)

oh yes

i dont like this announcement and no further info

want to see something

[Peter1968]

Geez people, they just announced the damned thing, at least give them a little time to throw some serious and coherent facts together.

/ob-cynicism

Given AE/Tulga's track record at giving serious and coherent answers to things, you may be waiting an inordinately long time.

[Dremora]

If you're gonna announce something, people expect to have more details. ;)

[Vlisson]

yep

if they dont have any information for us then they should have announced it 1 month later (it would be nice if they would at least fake some screenhot for us, or give us some concept arts)