Critical Strike III

[Helcat]

Aren't Critical Strikes supposed to Automatically Hit?

[AA0]

blights use foresight, which never shows up in combat spam

[AmonGwareth]

Crit Strike 3 is setup to always hit, yes. I'll see what smeglor's opinion on it is.

[Helcat]

blights use foresight, which never shows up in combat spam

It did use Foresight, and it was in the combat spam.
But it used it several hits earlier, and I'd already
landed a hit just prior to using Critcal Strike, so
Foresight was definitely no longer active.

[AA0]

A hit or an ability? It lasts 15s, I think.

I'm not sure at times either, I miss with heartseeker a whole lot out there.

[Helcat]

[Eni]

Foresight makes the next special not magic attack miss.
Hit with a weak special (stone hammer, powerstrike, ... ) first or wait the 20 seconds.

[Robins]

Yeah foresight was still active because the other 5 attacks where normal ones not special.

That brings up a interesting question of a unstoppable offense versus a inpenetrable defense which wins? I would say a tie like this should go to the defense since its much harder to stop a attack then it is to hit. If the offense won the tie then it could end the fight right there, while with defense winning at least the fight continues.

This is like baseballs rule of a tie going to the runner because its harder to get a hit then make a out.

[Helcat]

bah... ya know what I dont care... fix it or dont

[AA0]

Actually, foresight of old was changed. It used to make the next special attack miss, now it gives a chance for the next special attack to miss (-80% to hit I think). The description changed, but did the ability? If your attack is guaranteed hit, then our chance to hit shouldn't even be a factor, right?

[HratLi]

This was pretty annoying yesterday. If the calculations are correct then -80% of a guaranteed hit should bypass the 'to hit' test. But apparently it's much like the old version of a bunch of our skills. It's a very high absolute number as opposed to a guaranteed hit.

I've only on rare occasions managed to Foresight a crit, but the blights seem to be able to do it consistantly.

And yes, forsight only affects the next special hit, done within like 15-20 seconds of activation hit or not.

-HratLi

[Smeglor]

Here's the issue. Foresight is indeed a -80% chance to hit on the next incoming special attack. Specials that are a "guaranteed hit" just force their "die roll" to a 1, the lowest roll possible. So the only time that would miss is if you had no chance of hitting with that attack.

I can easily change the "guaranteed hit" to always hit, regardless of defense. But I'm beginning to think I like it the way it is. I suppose it should be reworded to "guaranteed hit if you had any chance to", but that's pretty silly to show in an item description.

I'm open to debate on this decision, though.

[HratLi]

Smeglor, Thanks for the post. Just clarification. How would we have NO chance of hitting? Don't all of our attacks have a chance of landing? Can we 'roll' a ZERO? :O

I don't know how it's calculated but a percentage penalty is NEVER going to result in a negative number, especially if, as you state, 1 is the lowest possible rolled. Perhaps it's not doing a percentage but some sort of absolute subtraction that is resulting in something that is rounding to 0?

I don't mind it one way or another, but either the description of CRIT and a few of the 'guaranteed' attacks is right, or the calculation is wrong. I am just curious.

-HratLi

[Fratricide]

I would have to say that if Crit strike is 100% guarenteed to hit and Foresight has a 80% chance to "forsee" and avoid the next special within the 15-20 sec time frame, that perhaps the Crit strike should hit, but the timer for Foresight should be restarted and the next special within the new 15-20 secs should be avoided 100% no matter what.

<uses foresight vs. Smeglor's impending wrath of not wanting to code that>

That way the Crit Strike ability is kept the way it has been stated since inception, and foresight can still be useful, though not necessarily when it was intended to be the most helpful.

[Smeglor]

Smeglor, Thanks for the post. Just clarification. How would we have NO chance of hitting? Don't all of our attacks have a chance of landing? Can we 'roll' a ZERO? :O
-HratLi

Usually. Normally there is a minimum 2% chance to hit. So under that concept, a roll of a 1 always hits. However, percent modifications to the chance to hit occur after the "cap" of 2% is applied (the same goes for a cap on the high end at 98%).

The reason the modifier is applied after the capping, which seems backwards, is because otherwise certain abilities wouldn't function right. If the ability is supposed to make the next attack miss by modifying the chance to hit by -100%, you don't want it to get capped at 2% - we'd end up with a thread saying "my Satyr Freedom doesn't work sometimes".

So in the case outlined at the beginning of this thread, the -80% from Foresight was enough to bring the % chance to hit below 1.

That's how you can have no chance of hitting - when you're not supposed to.

As someone stated, it's a problem of who wins in a "must hit/must miss" (or "unstoppable force/immovable object") situation.

[Smeglor]

<uses foresight vs. Smeglor's impending wrath of not wanting to code that>

You dodged Smeglor's Wrath of Not Coding That.

[tramsan]

Well, I'm biased, but I think it works ok as it is. In this case it's not really unstoppable force / immovable object but unstoppable force / unhittable target.

One could change the description to read "Gives 100% chance to hit" - that wouldn't conflict too terribly with Foresight etc.


By the way, was Foresight changed or only its description? If it's only the description then IMO the thing is moot.

[HratLi]

Hmm... I don't mind it one way or another. I still sometimes evade crits, on the PC side it mostly affects players who hunt Monk classes, and to a smaller degree, folks who took a few levels of monk for Foresight (which actually may be most of Istaria for all I know ).

I don't mind leaving it as is. Just glad I know that this was as intended and why. Though the "that always hits" might need to be reworded.

Thanks for your time Smeglor!
-HratLi

[walkerglassmire]

we'd end up with a thread saying "my Satyr Freedom doesn't work sometimes".

<holds up a claw> My Satyr Freedom doesn't work sometimes. <pauses> Wait...