To the Players and EI

[Helcat]

Clear out your PM's Helcat.....

Jayne

doh sorry! doing it now

[Tantalyr]

VERY well said, Xorith!

[Xorith]

spot on Xorith

Eh? Spot on me? Forgive my ignorance, but I have no idea what you're meaning here. :P

I also realized that somehow my in-game characters aren't listed in my signature anymore. Meh. I'll fix that soon.

(EDIT)

My roommate just cleared that up. Sorry, I think I need to go out and purchase more common sense. It's just too darn expensive anymore.

-- Valerith of Order, Brotherhood of Hope

[Helcat]

in case you arent joking

spot on = I concur.

[Dravatar]

Same as right on . Traditionally "spot on" is more a european version of the phrase, I believe.

[Jodokai]

Did I mention names? No.

Until I mention names it cannot be personal. As to the 'attack' aspect it is not an attack as no-one is targetted. Now if someone feels they have been bashed by that statement then perhaps it's due a guilty conscience. I attacked NO-ONE personally not did I vaguely attack anyone. I made a statement of a personal observation and if someone or some group of folks takes offense thinking it was aimed at them thats too bad. I cannot control the feeling of others. It has been my experience however, that offense taken in a case such as this is usually a sign of guilt. In such a case I can only say that if the shoe fits, wear it.

Hi I'm new here, and this probably isn't the best way to make my introduction, but I was never one known for my discretion (or my spelling).

Kwinn--using the same logic as the quoted paragraph above, what you are saying is it's all right for me to say "All catholics are child molesters."* According to you, I haven't named names, and made an observation of some priests, so it's not an attack, and anyone who is offended by that statement, must be guilty of it. Whether you choose to see it or not, it is the exact same thing.

I could offer an apology after every post or reply I make to sooth the feelings of those that make take offense at what I have to say. A disclaimer of sorts I suppose you could call it. I see no reason to do this nor do I feel the need to tender an apology now. Several reasons come to mind. For one thing, I am well within the stated Forums rules with my post. No rules were broken and personal attacks are against the rules. Perhaps most important though, an apology tendered to those that may feel attacked or offended simply WOULD NOT BE GENUINE. Not now, not tomorrow, not next week, not ever.

In this paragraph, you've tried to alter the direction of the argument. What Otter (I do hope it was Otter, I apologize if I've mixed up the names) said, was that you attacked people, and then complained about attackers. Regardless if you feel the need to apologize or not, this was the argument, and by your own admission was a true statement.

Let me suggest this: Everyone that says people should "lighten up" or preaching to have patients (I know wrong one, I've already covered my spelling problems), why don't you start paying the people that have tried to cancel but are still getting charged back. Take it out of your own pockets and give it to them. You see it's easy to sit back and tell people to relax when it's about a problem that doesn't effect you, I wonder how many of you would "lighten up" when it becomes your problem?

I'd like to close with this: While my post may seem as an attack against Kwinn, I sincerely hope it is not taken that way. I'm simply trying to show you another side. I'm new here, so I'm sort of an outsider looking in.


*Disclaimer: This is just an example and in no way represents how I feel about Catholics or any other religon for that matter. Point of fact, my wife is a devout Catholic.

[Bateluer]

I'd like to add my 2 cents here. I wish to resub and play Hz again, however, with the recent billing issues and lack of 'anything' from EI, I am hesitant. The Hz board and website are check daily for updates, and once things seem to be satisfactory, I'll try resubbing and trying it out.

But not before things are stabilized.

[Aryk Nainhammer]

Well said Kwinn.
I've bin here a long time...seen changes an' adapted.I ain't allus bin happy wit' sum o' wha' has happened o'er the years,but nuthin' is perfect.Ye adapt an' o'ercome or ye git swaller'd up in the process.This ain't the first time thet we've had new "masters" at the controls.I'ma glad thet sumone at least took o'er,else I'd be standin' in sum strange new werld right aboot now.
Me helm's off ta ye folks at EI,thank'ee fer makin' shore I still had me a home wit' folks I've grown up wit' these last few years.
Guess I'll be here till the lights go out....then I'll be jist astandin' thar inna dark waitin' fer the Gnome 'lectricians ta come an' restore the power, by me beard; don't ye doubt!

[Amerelium]

yes, there's been a lot of bashing. Not to sound critical, but every Hz player should have spent a little time online on Unity; we've endured the hardest of times, but still we keep spirits high, and muck around and have fun when we're online, nomatter how gloomy things might seem...

[Uther Blade]

Right on Kwinn!!!
Lots of stuff in game I ignored or just plain missed, until it was here in the forums... some of it good, most of it IMO negative. Lots of it unessissary for the player base to hear... again IMO.

There are two statements that could apply to any that feel Kwinn's statements are "personal attacks"

1. If the shoe fits?.. Wear it.
2. Me thinkest thou Protests too much.

If you think Kwinn is attacking anyone personally.. that is.. in short.. your issue.. take care of it yourself. Your feelings are your own. Wherever you go?.. There you are.

Hhmm.. Maybe the statement.. "a closed mouth gathers no foot" applies as well?

~sits down and shuts up~

[BKBanzai]

Wherever you go?.. There you are.

My favorite quote of all time. It's 100% correct all the time, too.

[Jodokai]

Right on Kwinn!!!
Lots of stuff in game I ignored or just plain missed, until it was here in the forums... some of it good, most of it IMO negative. Lots of it unessissary for the player base to hear... again IMO.

There are two statements that could apply to any that feel Kwinn's statements are "personal attacks"

1. If the shoe fits?.. Wear it.
2. Me thinkest thou Protests too much.

If you think Kwinn is attacking anyone personally.. that is.. in short.. your issue.. take care of it yourself. Your feelings are your own. Wherever you go?.. There you are.

Hhmm.. Maybe the statement.. "a closed mouth gathers no foot" applies as well?

~sits down and shuts up~

Perhaps you missed it, I'll repeat my argument when Kwinn said it:

Kwinn--using the same logic as the quoted paragraph above, what you are saying is it's all right for me to say "All catholics are child molesters." According to you, I haven't named names, and made an observation of some priests, so it's not an attack, and anyone who is offended by that statement, must be guilty of it. Whether you choose to see it or not, it is the exact same thing.

[Uther Blade]

Perhaps you missed it, I'll repeat my argument when Kwinn said it:

Kwinn--using the same logic as the quoted paragraph above, what you are saying is it's all right for me to say "All catholics are child molesters." According to you, I haven't named names, and made an observation of some priests, so it's not an attack, and anyone who is offended by that statement, must be guilty of it. Whether you choose to see it or not, it is the exact same thing.

You have a whole head of hairs to split

Come on!! Guilt is of concern to the guilty alone. The statement you make for your argument is assumptive (correct word.. used the dictionary).. Your statement is a "blanket statement" and indicts all Catholics and should only be (in context of the statement) directed at priests. Kwinn is not assuming anything here, nor is he making a "blanket statement", directed at the populous of the forums.

Your using logic.. and it is flawed.. Kwinn is being Genuine and honest... That my friend supersedes your logic. Logic may seem true.. but Truth is the heart of the matter.. logic does a jig around the truth and pulls those seeking it?... away from it!!

[Jodokai]

You have a whole head of hairs to split

Come on!! Guilt is of concern to the guilty alone. The statement you make for your argument is assumptive (correct word.. used the dictionary).. Your statement is a "blanket statement" and indicts all Catholics and should only be (in context of the statement) directed at priests. Kwinn is not assuming anything here, nor is he making a "blanket statement", directed at the populous of the forums.

Your using logic.. and it is flawed.. Kwinn is being Genuine and honest... That my friend supersedes your logic. Logic may seem true.. but Truth is the heart of the matter.. logic does a jig around the truth and pulls those seeking it?... away from it!!

You're absolutely right the logic is flawed, which was my point from the begining. Both statements, whether you choose to believe it or not, follow Kwinn's course of logic, both statements are flawed.

But let's not leave out the REAL issue. How about this: You start paying everyone that can't cancel back out of your own pocket. Then the problem becomes YOURS, and then let's see if you're still telling people to relax. If Kwinn and the rest of you saying "You protest too much" were people that wanted to cancel, I'd say "Cool, go git em" but since you're not, essentially what you're doing is saying "Let them eat cake".

And one final test: Since it is your belief that Kwinn's statement is "truth" (you words not mine) please prove this quote to be true: "Now if someone feels they have been bashed by that statement then perhaps it's due a guilty conscience."

Finally, while were putting down favorite and approprate quotes:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
and of course
Judge not a man unitl you have walked a mile in his shoes.

[sierana]

Hello all i feel it necessary that i make a post here due to some I have made in the past few days. Over the night last night i tried to explain my ideals to Dremora. We both had different opinions and we both accepted that and we did do some posting back and forth both very nicely i might add. We never bashed the other told the other one of us was wrong. I am all about freedom of speach thought and in this case typing. What people should remember is we are not one brain. Please try to remember that if kwinn (or anyone else states something) that we have the right to disagree however we do not have the right (without fact that is proven then and there) to tell anyone that their personal opinion is Wrong!

Seirana

[Fratricide]

Sierana, no need to run around trying to justify your days prior to being a Moderator.... well perhaps there is, but I would suggest that you progress from where you are and not worry about the toes that have been stepped on prior to your title change.

[TheHaunt]

Seirana,

I do agree with you. We, as human beings, are all different and we all do have opinions... the mature way to deal with the difference is to simply say "this is where I don't agree with you and this is why"... and do it without calling names or making suggestions about a person's lack of intelligence or maturity, or whatever.

Lately, there's been a lot of bashing going on... from various sides. I don't expect us all to agree. I certainly don't agree with things, and try to express that viewpoint... I think we ALL need to try to exchange ideas WITHOUT slamming each other, whether pro or con, ancient or noob, young or old...

To all- open your eyes... read what you're writing and think about it... are your words bashing someone or are you only disagreeing? You can be correct without being abusive.

Let's try being adults...

[Chioxin]

*Agrees with the haunt very much so.*

[sierana]

The Haunt,

I am glad to see that there are a few who seem to agree. Thankyou very much for posting that.

[Jayne]

Actually Haunt is not bashing. I think many will call it Debating. Unfortunetly many will debate the other side just to get the whole place worked up. They may even totally agree with you but take the opposite side just to get this sparked up. Well I guess thats freedom of speech.

Yes it gets old, but I guess its there right.

Jayne