sorry to say ...

[TheHaunt]

The icon project and the UIs I have been creating are indefintely on hold...

EI has created a new rule that says I am not able to link my work to the public .. I sent a PM to Dark Enigma - which he declined to respond to - except to get Peaches to tell me "We are currently working on the issue"..

Somehow the fact that myself and any number of other people who have been working on UIs or other projects to make istarian life better are now wasted time.

Thankyou to the 1300 people who have downloaded my work and given me thanks for the time spent doing it...I have enjoyed it and I hope you have gotten a better gaming experience from it.

To EI - your stupid(edited)bureacreacy has invalidated hundreds of hours of my work which you otherwise would have gotten for free.. one day you may grow up and be worthy of the game you now own.

For anyone who wants some of the work which I am not now allowed to link .. stengrafix .. you can work the rest out.

Hopefully one day EI will be smart enough to embrace the people who have given their time to try to help the game .. right now - we're not allowed to link our work ..

TG wanted to host my work EI bans me from linking it .. does not make me feel very confident and willing to try to help them any more.

I don't understand if they are posted as player-made, why EI has to approve anything... you post them as "use at your own risk"... and not sponsored by EI... and you move on... no big deal... or at least it didn't HAVE to be a big deal... sheesh.

[Blue Hasia]

This is the reason why I took down all my mods, it is a shame i also put months of work into making all of my mods. I been getting alot of sad pms and emials asking what happen to my mods, well now you know.

[snickel]

(...) We're responsible for everything in this game. It only stands to reason, we'd want to check any additions. (...)

I beg to differ.

If a player modifies something and makes it available to other players, these players incorporate it at their own risk. The company is not responsible for that and cannot be held responsible.

Don't get me wrong -- I think it is a nice and valuable effort if EII takes the time to try to make sure that player-made additions actually work and do no damage. If EII gives them a seal of approval, than that is a fine thing.

But you don't have to. You still could allow the players to post modifications if you indicate that the forum they post in is exactly of that nature -- player developed stuff to use at your own risk.

Indicate clearly which modifications have EII approval and which don't have it yet. Nothing more is needed.

[Vlisson]

strange things happen here

[Takora Drakan]

We're responsible for everything in this game.

You know what, THAT sentence made me laugh my (deleted) off....

So, if I make now a mod on my own, and screw up my hz, EI is reponsible? How funny....

It is known by MMO gamers that you are at on your own responsible if you install the mod. Noone forces you to do that. In the disclamers of the mods stands always "use/install at your own risk; I'm not responsible for what happens, DUDE!"

[LexDivinia]

In the disclamers of the mods stands always "use/install at your own risk; I'm not responsible for what happens, DUDE!"

Agreed.

Every mod I have downloaded... from the maps, to the crafting calculator to the UI's... have all had that disclaimer. I can not blame the company that owns the game for something that I did to the client side of HZ. If I mess it up... then I uninstall and waste a few hours reinstalling.

Now, the question I have is... Has anyone had any long term ill effects of downloading any of the mods provided by HZ players?

[Jodokai]

I beg to differ.

If a player modifies something and makes it available to other players, these players incorporate it at their own risk. The company is not responsible for that and cannot be held responsible.

Don't get me wrong -- I think it is a nice and valuable effort if EII takes the time to try to make sure that player-made additions actually work and do no damage. If EII gives them a seal of approval, than that is a fine thing.

But you don't have to. You still could allow the players to post modifications if you indicate that the forum they post in is exactly of that nature -- player developed stuff to use at your own risk.

Indicate clearly which modifications have EII approval and which don't have it yet. Nothing more is needed.

While probably technically true, anyone that has posted on a forum should know exactly what would happen if something went wrong with a mod: The person that installed the "bad mod" that messed something up would seek tech support from EI. If or when EI couldn't help them, the person would come to the forum and flame the crap out of EI for not being able to fix the mess the person created for themselves. And I'm sure that said person would absent mindedly forget to mention that he's the one that messed it up in the first place in their flames.

Then consider what would happen if someone added a mod that could say, dupe gold. If anyone where allowed to post any mod without any sort of moderation this type of thing could happen. So while the OP's intentions are honorable, not everyone's are, and you have to set precedence. You can't give anyone the ability to say: "Well you let so and so do it so you have to let me too"

[snickel]

While probably technically true, anyone that has posted on a forum should know exactly what would happen if something went wrong with a mod: The person that installed the "bad mod" that messed something up would seek tech support from EI. If or when EI couldn't help them, the person would come to the forum and flame the crap out of EI for not being able to fix the mess the person created for themselves. And I'm sure that said person would absent mindedly forget to mention that he's the one that messed it up in the first place in their flames.

I think the past has shown that there is no way to prevent people from finding a reason to post flames. Yes, a badly constructed modification will mean additional work and disgruntled players, but for a player who took the trouble to see his work set on hold and made temporarily unavailable to other players this is aggravating and moreover, it creates the unfavorable impression that EII favors a heavy-handed approach. Moderation is Janus-faced -- it protects, but it is also a form of censorship and should be handled with extreme caution and reluctance.

Then consider what would happen if someone added a mod that could say, dupe gold. If anyone where allowed to post any mod without any sort of moderation this type of thing could happen. So while the OP's intentions are honorable, not everyone's are, and you have to set precedence. You can't give anyone the ability to say: "Well you let so and so do it so you have to let me too"

I'm not sure I understand that one. Do you refer to some sort of exploit? Well, I think that there are already established rules for that. And I have no problem at all with them being enforced.

[Dremora]

Wow, you guys over at EI are making things seem much bigger than they really are.

How about instead of worrying about player mods, you actually, um, WORK ON HORIZONS UPDATES? This is just stupid. I have had no desire to log into Horizons in a long time because of this.. it's like playing an old, forgotten game.

Back on topic: It makes absolutely no sense to me how you think you would be responsible for player made mods. I have downloaded many of these, and have had no ill effects. As was stated earlier, the Override folder exists just for this purpose - to install player made mods.

We aren't stupid, we are capable of backing up original files incase something goes wrong, and of understanding that what we downloaded was at our own risk.

[AA0]

I really don't get it either, I mean, player customizations has been working very well for almost 3 years now, very few problems and those were fixed by the players quick enough. So if its been working fine for so long, what exactly is the big emergency to shut things down in some mindless panic and make things look bad? Why wouldn't think just stay as is while a new more organized system is thought out?
Unless someone's mods are causing problems with the game..

[Chioxin]

I'll have to agree that it's kind of silly to do such a thing. Though I can understand the desire to but... still think it's up to the players if they want it or not.

The only thing they have going for them in this regard is to look at WoW... I love the fact it's entirely modible but... Every patch I have to run through my list of stupid mods and make sure they are up to date and still working properly. It's a hassle. If EII is looking into a system that should PREVENT this need, awesome, more power to them.

That's the only reason I can see though and ... I don't think HZ was having that problem to begin with... So this is kinda silly =(

I really want to know what this "new system" of modding you talk about Nagafen really does or does differently? Why they can't keep their mods out there until you set the new system in? I mean... Worse case is once you guys set the new system in place... Those mods will have to rebuild their things to match the new system???

I don't know =/ Let em have their mods back.

[Jayne]

Technically if I were EI, I wouldn't want to test these player mods. Once I stamp my seal of approval then EI will have a tie in and will be responsible to a point. So perhaps better to stay out of that arena. Just a thought

Jayne

[LaughingOtter]

Our goal is to provide more support for player modifications and we're working on a way to better incorporate them into Horizons. We also want to make sure that player made modifications are appropriate for the game. We're still in the process of creating a system, through which we can further encourage you and players like you.

This sounds like EI intends to set up a process where mods are submitted, reviewed, and then added to the game on approval (once EI has a working delta process, of course).

If that is the case, it might be better to be building bridges to the modding community instead of burning them.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Seeing as how most MMORPGs that I have looked at don't allow player mods at all, and will even ban you in some cases just for having one, I think EI should be cut just a little slack. They would probably like to at least glance over player mods to make sure there aren't any exploits or trojans built in. All the mods I know of so far for Horizons have been safe and useful, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't write a harmful one, or one that makes some exploit easy to do.

[Theolaerynn]

While probably technically true, anyone that has posted on a forum should know exactly what would happen if something went wrong with a mod: The person that installed the "bad mod" that messed something up would seek tech support from EI. If or when EI couldn't help them, the person would come to the forum and flame the crap out of EI for not being able to fix the mess the person created for themselves. And I'm sure that said person would absent mindedly forget to mention that he's the one that messed it up in the first place in their flames.

You mean like the map mod? I installed that at some point because I got tired of having to redo my map markers on a regular basis back when AE kept deleting them. Well, it is currently broken. I know somewhere there is a thread that talks about how to fix it, but my point is that all of the players I know that use mods go to the source of the mod, not the source of the game. If the game broke the mod then it usually falls upon the author of the mod to find out why and fix the mod, or get the game company to fix their bug (fat chance on that, but it has happened).

In other words, it is doubtful EI would get spammed by support tickets.

Then consider what would happen if someone added a mod that could say, dupe gold. If anyone where allowed to post any mod without any sort of moderation this type of thing could happen. So while the OP's intentions are honorable, not everyone's are, and you have to set precedence. You can't give anyone the ability to say: "Well you let so and so do it so you have to let me too"

Hacking the game will always happen, and is always a risk. This is independant of mods, and a game company would go after the responsible party regardless of distribution method. If folks want to hack and there is enough interest in it, it will get done. Limiting mods as EI has chosen to do will have absolutely no effect on this.

Big games like WoW and EQ1/EQ2 have always allowed player mods, and SOE has even held contests and done player mod spotlights. Not exactly supporting evidence of EI's decision.

Of course, SOE has a development team. Maybe that is the difference.

[Fridlekh]

Technically if I were EI, I wouldn't want to test these player mods. Once I stamp my seal of approval then EI will have a tie in and will be responsible to a point. So perhaps better to stay out of that arena. Just a thought

Jayne

The flip side of this, is that any mod that gets EI's stamp of approval will likely be incorporated into the game itself and henceforth be property of EI instead of the original author. "Thank you for all the hard work, we'll be taking this now." Not that there's really anything wrong with that, most mod makers would be happy to have their mods be permanent additions to the game. (Recognition, no more instructing people in how to use overrides correctly, etc.) I know I was happy to have my maps be made the official ones...

[Jayne]

ROFL, well they can at least give them a special emblem

"They stole my work" emblem

[Tzael]

LOL I'm glad I didn't have a mouthful of tea when I read that Jayne !

[Frith-Rae]

Meep!! Don't take away my map mod!! NOOOoooo!!

However, it sounded like Nagafen said the "ban" has been lifted, and people can continue to do whatever it was they were doing until such time as EI gets to it themselves - whatever that entails.

Why change a system that wasn't broke I have no idea.

But, at least I still have my Mappack (cuddles it close...yes...yes my precious..)

[Alpion]

Technically if I were EI, I wouldn't want to test these player mods. Once I stamp my seal of approval then EI will have a tie in and will be responsible to a point. So perhaps better to stay out of that arena. Just a thought

Jayne

I suppose once this was no longer the "community's" forum and was turned into "EI's Official Horizons Forum", they are now liable for anything posted here. If mods are allowed on these forums, then as the "official" site EI takes full responsibility for any such work. Too bad these aren't still the "community's" forums. Then we wouldn't have this problem.