Level cap has to go ...

[Nalrach]

Okay yes I know subject has been discussed in the past and discussion is sterile untill EII get a dev team, but no less ....

Level cap cap has to go.

I know some would prefer see the "Elder game", which at this point was an ex-employee dream. I know we still don't have all the tier6 stuff in place, but no less, we need cap raised.

The table progression is well known, every 20 level so much plus to add. The dev work is simple, just a few line to add in a table. at this point I really don't care for the fact that new tier items won't be added. just the fact that the xp we getting get used for something, and we do get the point and plus to get to be able to do our craft at optimze value.

The justification is easy .. This morming I was looking for someone to do adamtium bar at optimized, and I got answered that the most we can get is 3:1, because the numbers don't add up. No way the level or the bonus willow the 1600 or so point required in the skill.

So EII, do consider the cap level .. it has to go even if new content is mot added. For one I would return playing my healer versus starting new cross class character's.

[Krystine]

Actually the skill on adamantiium bars and the other t6 resouces is out of line. Instead of making the minimum skill 1000 as other t6 they made it 1200. Would only need to bring them in line with other t6 materials that were in game already.

[Tzael]

All that raising the level cap will accomplish is providing high level players with additional grind. The reason it got put off for so long is because it was being well planned out. I'm sure folks like Amadan will brief EI on the intricacies of raising the level cap and ensuring that the content is there to accompany (or should that be 'mask' ?) the additional grind.

Simply because we have new owners, we should not take advantage of their ignorance and start demanding things that we already know need near-perfect execution in order to add the desired enjoyment we all crave. I'm not against raising the level cap, though I am totally against raising the level cap without adding the content required to accompany those levels as well as the elder game content that will ensure there is no need to raise caps beyond this desired increase.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

The dev work is simple, just a few line to add in a table.

Buh, no. Big time no.

Increasing the level cap is not a switch, it's not a few extra "tables" or lines of data. There exists no content past 100 for all adventure schools. There are no abilities and much of the tier VI item info is obsolete or incomplete. There are no tier VI formulae. Just adding the forms to the game would take weeks of work. Most of all there aren't enough tier VI monsters to fill the requirement of adding the thousands upon thousands of techs, forms, and missing pieces of info to the world. Adding another 20 levels to the game would be a massive undertaking that would have taken months with an experienced development staff.

Also, and I'm not positive on this, but I believe the simulation would need to be rewritten in order to accomplish the game allowing you to progress past 100 or 101. When messing around on the internal server the highest I could set my level to in any school was 101, and doing that ended up bugging my character to the point that I had to manually remove the school to fix everything.

[Kulamata]

The perfect became the enemy of the good. I'd have been perfectly happy if tier VI were to be like tiers I - V. I was really looking forward to making adamantium armor, maybe some new colors, a few new shields, another round of techs and their ingredients....

I looked forward to being able to go around and whomp some of the tier VI bad guys that had given me a hard time, at least until they got "adjusted". I was easy to please. I liked Horizons, the remaining people liked Horizons, so make tier VI more of Horizons as we knew it.

Not much point in commenting on the final changes. I imagine the original plan had been to space them out a bit to keep the player base sullen rather than inflamed.

And a basic tier VI is still what I'd like to see, which would allow a greater allocation of resources for things like the engine.

And THEN...


Edit: crossed with Hal's post. But I still think a straightforward extension would be quite a bit less effort than the expansion Tzael is hoping for.

[Tzael]

But I still think a straightforward extension would be quite a bit less effort than the expansion Tzael is hoping for.

Reading your post, I can't help but wonder how long it would be before people would be asking for another level cap increase, and then another, and another.

Is it realistic to believe that if the level cap is raised right now, tier VI introduced, will people be happy to sit back after getting their next 20 levels if a 'basic' approach to raising the level cap is taken ? I personally don't think so, I believe that it wouldn't be long before people would be saying someithng like "I've been stuck on level 120 forrrrr-everrrrr, like I've been this way for three weeks and I'm bored now. I know ! I'll ask for the level cap to be raised again, it can't be that difficult...". I welcome your attempt to convince myself that this is not what we'll see from the playerbase Kulamata.

Raising the level cap needs to go hand in hand with adding content by way of quests, equipment, lore, monsters, abilities, and that's only hitting on the obvious. The only way to prevent people grinding out another 20, 30, 50 or 100 levels (depending how far the level cap would be raised by) would be to introduce elder game play concepts that remove the high level players from the levelling treadmill once they've hit the cap. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone that any computer game needs an end of game model that will satisfy players' craving for enjoyment in a way that removes the need for 'ding' satisfaction.

[Vlisson]

if would like to see an skillprogression ^^

then you dont have this endless level grind. it would make more sense because you could limit the powerlevel more effective

atm a lvl 80 is much weaker than a lvl 100 of the same school.

i would love to get the chance to improve my skills/abilities/lvls

but what would be the reason for it? why to get lvl 120? there is nothing to do, no interesting mob, no nice loot...

content is more important than only 1 stat (lvl)

[Nalrach]

Why,

Because the progression table is well defined (repeatitive) and could be easily put in place. Would give a sence that you not playing for nothing (xp going in the biit bucket) and your skill would improved, instead of having to grind another class to get your rating up. I was citing one place where the numbers could be increased, and Kristine was nice to point that maybe modified, so her way or mine could reach both the same effect, and I appreciate her clear expressed view on that subject..

As to my personnal view. Some people (in this case me and I migth be the minority) are not interested in grinding all 15 classes. In my case I'm quite happy with my healer class, and I was oblidge to take guardian so that I could raise "armor use" so that I could wear ironsilk. Have I been to able to increase my armor use, I would not have to have taken another class, that I give no dam about.

And yes, it was an old debate closed by Tulga and the promover of the "elder game" (which I have no use for), but EII is looking for input to make their mind what they want to do, and I'm entitled to place my input.

So this said .. I'm conclued and try to troll if you want, but if you want to promote your view start a new tread instead of jumping on people because they don't agree with you. I'm sick of people that only jumps on people instead of trying to bring positive views or ways to improve other views.

And yes I'm aware their in no Tier 7 mobs, spell, resources or watherever .. It's doesn't stop you the 24x7 players to grind all 15 classes and get ridiculous rating to hunt mobs, that someone with only one or two class could hunt if their stats and level be better. So saying their his no mobs for a level 120 to hunt, go explain that the the dude that made his rating 250, that their is no mobs for him to hunt.

[Kulamata]

It is not feasible for EII to develop what amounts to a new game for elder play.

As far as I know, EVE Online has come closest to solving the elder play problem; in a more conventional game, even mighty Blizzard has not solved the problem. Their forthcoming expansion amounts to an extension of the existing gameplay; main change is that the new instances will require fewer players, and be replayable at a higher (harder) level at least once.

I'm always somewhat bemused when I hear that players will play the new content; umm, well yes, that's what it's for. All content is exhaustable unless it is truly dynamic, like EVE's, but that's not possible within the Horizons framework.

A straightforward extension would still be a significant task, to say the least, but it is clearly doable. Even so, I'd be very impressed if it were to appear in less than a year.

[MadDwarf]

seems to me that Horizons would be ripe for an Alternate advancement system. Ways to improve your character above and beyond the class system that adds a reason though meagre it maybe to grind more.

[Nalrach]

First, I appologize for my earlier outburt af angryness at some folks word.

seems to me that Horizons would be ripe for an Alternate advancement system. Ways to improve your character above and beyond the class system that adds a reason though meagre it maybe to grind more.

Hi Mad dwarf, you maybe rigth in the fact that we migth need something new. Or the power grinder/leveler or the 24x7 players that have many classes, need something different because they tired to be having to grind another class to level 100 because that is the max it goes.

See I miss two things in this game; guild play and role playing my dude.

Guild play was ruined because a few complain of power levelling and Tulga or was it AI then, anyway bets solution was to screw the xp to zero and have the mobs attack the lowest character. I miss the friday and saterday nigth guild hunt, where we no mather the level could go have fun as a guild, dragging the small ones so they can learn and have fun with their elders. So what they did they replace it by treasure token that people grind and buy/sale for others to level. Nope it's not power levelling where a big dude hunt and the low level play a support role, it's here I hunted, here the treasure now go get the experience. Off course now wht we will nerf the treasure token.

The second like I said was to play myself; we all started to play a class that we wanted to be, and maybe a sidekick class to help. For me was a healer and spiritist. Yeap!! I loved support role and I was good. I was a good healer and known for "to be there when it counted". So I reach 100 and I got mad for the xp getting wasted in the bit bucket. The powerlevelling nerf screw the guild hunt, and because people started to raise other class ,I had no choice but doing the same, grind another class. Off course the massive exodus we had in the past meant that more often then other solo was going to be the norms, go gring a frigthe class, which role playing wise, doesn't suit's me, but I need the armor usage to go up to solo.

So that's me and maybe many other folks too. I get stuck with part of your statement .. ""Ways to improve your character above and beyond the class system"". call me fool, but I think it's time to head back to the basics. True I live on Order and Chaos are not you ways, but role playing gives a pupose to your character life. In the Market yesterday two things cames to view; roleplay and communauty project. yes been a long time since the players had nothing to work as a group.

Some common thing that EII may want to ponder:

. - The future of role playing in HZ (racial & class wise)
. - The future of the communauty (project & story line)
. - The future of guild (group hunt & the guild gheto we have)
. - The builders & crafter life style (not evryone like adventuring)
. - The hunters life style (quest, story line, an have no use for crafting)
. - The mobs development (surprise me evrything so previsible, new content)
. - The land development (new place to see, review location of guild, unused city)

Yes Yes !!! first EII has to get a dev team.

and a lot of thinking and planning. Good luck to you EII

[Kulamata]

I agree completely with the comments about the current group leveling scheme. The system that was introduced a bit after release was carefully worked out, with a group to gather statistics. Then those data were carefully analyzed by a very capable individual, and an xp system was set up to promote group play.

Later, when circumstances changed, due to the PL mass mob killing on the islands, the system was thrown out. It should have been tweaked, with a max xp cap. Instead, a major short-sighted, simplistic change was made; and since it met the broad goal of slowing advancement at any cost, it was never going to be changed. The effect on guilds, as mentioned above, was great, and not for the better. There were no larger considerations beyond preventing fast leveling, let alone the social effects.

As for the mob attacking the lowest level player? Again, a hasty, shortsighted answer to a problem that made matters worse.

Haste, pressure, and the loss of many of the more thoughtful and imaginative devs during the two great layoffs and singly thereafter, are factors in the later mode of operation. Contrast the vexator and kwellen mobs to the recently proposed crab and scorpion.

Many of the elders wax nostalgic for the early game; and indeed, in many ways, it was a better game. In too many cases, ill-considered change was much worse than no change.

[Theolaerynn]

Many of the elders wax nostalgic for the early game; and indeed, in many ways, it was a better game. In too many cases, ill-considered change was much worse than no change.

All in all a very good post, but this part rang especially loud. When you think about the problems of the early game and then consider that not only do many of us wax nostalgic about it (which is normal), but we wish that a number of changes would be rolled back to those times, well that should raise a warning that something isn't right.

Part of it is that the very nature of nostalgia means we remember things in such a way as to skew them towards being more enjoyable than they were. But much of it is in seeing too many band-aid fixes and hacks destroy part of the soul of Horizons. And it didn't have to be that way.

Personally, I would rather see EI fix the game as it currently stands, before working on new things. That is very hard for me to admit, because there are so many things that we have all been waiting for, for a very long time. But if they take the time to fix the foundation then the chances are lower that new features will continue the trend of making Horizons a frustrating place to be.

[Sunuke]

I think there are more then enough options to goto. I have been thinking about the next way to got for the game and what I have been thinking about is this:

Thru questing we'll figure out some way to some old plans of the gnome that build the automatrons to travel to some sort of rift, some sort of other dimension. The brightest scientists in Istaria come together and they build this gnomish machine thru which we can travel to some sort of chamber.

There is one side effect thou.

You can only travel thru if you have lvl 100 or up and have finished a certain quest that will protect you to endure the travel to the other side.

On the other side we discouver there are several doorways like we opened ours there are more. One leads to a war torn world where the WA's armies have enslaved the races. The other world is one of peace, with many natural resources, there are some animals, of which we can use their hides to make strong armours but they aren't easily killed and very territorially and some doesn't seem to care about the new visitors. The crafters from Istaria are settling themselves in this peacefull world far away from the war in Istaria and quickly there is trade starting between the little settlements and the homeland.

Due to the resources from the settlements and the stronger weapons and armour the empire is going to try to free one of the races in the war torn world, we're harsly kicked out and the blight invade Istaria and occupy over half of Istaria now which we have to free again.

The empire finds out how they made a mistake in wanting to free the other races so bad and not watching the blight treath in Istaria itself.

There is a huge counter offensive in Istaria and even Rachival is finally freed and can be rebuild but the damage is huge. We all have to patch in on rebuilding the city which requires materials from tier 1-6.

A terrible plague hits the dragon population which keep them stuck in their kuhtit form and keep them grounded. Did the blight do this or....?

[Phillip]

What if they cap adventuring at t5, there's no such thing as t6? ie level 100 is highest you can go.

On crafting it's a little late to cap at t5, since some t6 stuff are already here. What about scrapping the current t6 anyway (tick some people off I know), cap it back at t5, yet current t6 structures and whatever else get a little bonus for the work crafters have put in?

Basically, my point is to extend to t6 in both craft and adv will take so much work like Hal said, and as well, we all know it's about grind anyway. IMO I don't think HZ need more grind. We need more content, like racial structures, fluff, events, a sense of economy, and a semi-dynamic war. The focus should be in those.

[Deth]

What if they cap adventuring at t5, there's no such thing as t6? ie level 100 is highest you can go.

On crafting it's a little late to cap at t5, since some t6 stuff are already here. What about scrapping the current t6 anyway (tick some people off I know), cap it back at t5, yet current t6 structures and whatever else get a little bonus for the work crafters have put in?

Basically, my point is to extend to t6 in both craft and adv will take so much work like Hal said, and as well, we all know it's about grind anyway. IMO I don't think HZ need more grind. We need more content, like racial structures, fluff, events, a sense of economy, and a semi-dynamic war. The focus should be in those.

Just so you know T6 is 100-?. One of the dev's stated with the Cov revamp info that T6 Starst at 100 and is diffrent from T1-T5, Well So is T5 as it ends at 99 instead of 100.

[Phillip]

However they do it, to cap all at T5.

I'm just saying I rather trade the massive dev time to implementing more content stated, rather than grind. I don't see the population growth from here with more grind for the few left.

[pevil2000]

Note I'm not a lvl 100 yet so don't know what its like up there, but surely an easy way for them to stop 100s complaining quite so much would be to add in higher level mobs? I know we have 120 blight hounds, but for those who have higher ratings etc, want higher ratings or just want a challenge (maybe even in a group!) surely it would be fun to add in some higher level mobs? Up to 150, maybe even 200. Better exp for those with multiple classes, and you'd surely need to be grouped with a good strategy for them.

[BKBanzai]

Well, if the cap goes to 120 and then people want it to go to 140....isn't that what an expansion pack could be for?

[Sunuke]

Well, if the cap goes to 120 and then people want it to go to 140....isn't that what an expansion pack could be for?

When raising the cap they should do it with 100 i think.