Housebuilders Union?

[Dvergar]

With the calculations from the crafters, who charge 30-100s per piece of t5 equipment, it looks like its time to organize the housebuilders to a Union, not working for prices lower than in relation to what the armorers, weaponsmiths, jewelers or tinks are working for.

With the current prices,a mithril armor (12 pieces) with weapon would be around 650s (1 run of mithril bars).On the other hand, housebuilders are expected to work for lowest prices, so even a large villa would be less expensive than a single suit of armor, even though the required time for the housebuilding is taking ages longer.

Lets not be suppressed by the other crafters and adventurers! Fair prices for building!

[Caelin]

I agree!

But it is nearly impossible to control the house-building prices. A lot of people will happily build for free or little money, just to gain XP.
But we could start by creating a housebuilders union, and then we would be sure that the members of that union at least didnt work for less than an agreed price. Thats a good way to start.

Count me in!

Anybody wanna give a suggestion as to what the prices should be?

[Mysk]

Being on both sides of that comparison, I can understand you from the house crafter point of viewBUT I think it is an unfair comparison. All the other mentioned crafters need a lot more than just resource gathering and crafting an item. For exampe they needmany more formulas and - even worse - need also a big variety of techs to fulfill the customer's needs. As a house crafter it is a lot less complicated to get anorder done. If you have the necessary skill it is mainly resource gathering and a lot of running. So basically it is mainly time consuming (no doubt that this has to be valued too).But usually you can setyour own pace while another craftercan't wait too long with the crafting.And an item crafter has to deal with a lot of customized orders. And getting all those necessary techs can be quite difficult. Often enough you have to go through tough negotiations with adventurersto get the hands on an important tech. That means you need to invest a lot before you are capable to fulfill most orders. Something what a house crafter doesn't have to take care of.

Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely for fair prices in the housing business. Butfor a comparison to othercraft classes and theirpricesyou need to see thewhole picture.

Oh, and I nearly forgot something. With the merge, the "normal" crafters will get now a lot more competition. It is quite possible that prices will drop a lot. Butat house crafting the demand will go up when plots are finally back in.In the past it was quite easy to build a lot on your own by leveling up to Tier 2. But with new T5 structures, people will probably needmore help of high construction crafter because they can't bring up their own crafter high enough in a reasonable time.

[Demitri]

This is indeed a difficult topic, mysk is right, item crafters have more to do and that canjustify their higher prices to a degree, but at the same time, plot crafters are gettin screwed over in prices, i dont think that we should charge an arm and a leg for construction, i feel that would put people off getting things built and therefore kill our trade, but we do have to reavaluate our prices after this merge, i belive that this union is a very good idea, could start a chat channel for it aswell, and majority of plot crafters could gather there and disssuss what our prices should be, so that we arent undercutting eachother and basicly ruining the who system. I personally am unsure on what to charge for T5 construction, to my guild i always will build for free, but to the rest of the world, i just dunno. Anyway if you feel like discussing this more, ill be making the 'ConUnion' Chat Channel ingame, that is if 1 of you dont beat me to it [;)]

[Joaqim]

Yes a really good question here!
Well in my case I don't even have a clue about the prices for Cobalt Fittings as they wasn't used (much) in the old world. On the other hand, I don't feel much need to do T4 Fitting (if not for Guild), as it's kind of pain and it's better of you can get at least some XP which those then....
So Mithril Fittings, well it's a real pleasure to do those instead of Cobalt, but the prices??? Well, my feeling would say quite high T4 prices and not that much more for T5 fittings.
But well, I guess it will take quite a while till I can look for builting other stuff them for guild, so for the first time I'll just sitting on the fence and look what the others are doing[;)]

[LordBouli]

There will always be people who work for less just to get the contract. Seen it in a few schools now. [:@]

[Wisjh]

as a lvl 53 mason i'm still can't work with those rescources but count me in when i can

[Demitri]

very true kadron, but hopefully if we can get a union set up people undercutting prices will drop alot, and the whole system will prove to be more stable.

[Dvergar]

Mysk, don't forget that there housebuilders are to be divided in 2 groups. One group is highlevel in one school, and brought the building school up with this primary crafting. With that, they have the skill, and regarding t5, even most of the forms are free, as you already got thjem for your first school). On the other side are the pure builders, who have no other schools to make money with. Theydepend on their building, and getting paid by that. Just look at the expert formulas. the basic refinery formulas (bricks, bars, boards,...) are 300s each at the Vielo. Those formulas are not to be found as drops on the open market. The building formulas are 300s and 350s, unless you have the luck to find one of the formulas in the market or as drop. And as many guild are in need of expert work, they keep those formulas for themselves.

So, building t5 houses is not really different from building t5 gear. Both need to get the invested money back. But while is a crucial factor in the building business, as a crafter you've got nothing to worry about. Witha singledisc full of t5 resources (not to mention the xxl vault) you can craft many gears.

Sure, techs and formulas are expensive as drops, but on the other hand, as you don't need that much time for crafting, you can spend all the time on hunting for techs, still earning cash from the right mobs, and getting techs and forms for your crafting...

Regarding the topic, *what* a fair price is per tier (especially t5), thats to be discussed by the builders.

[Cylian Golas]

Well if we going to set a price structure in relation to what other tier V crafters charge then we going to be cheap as I charge 8s per piece of Mithril armour teched or not ;)

[SmallFluffyBunny]

Im sure cylian was selling mith armour pieces for 8 - 10s each ?

OK charging 50s per unit, but aint gonna be many people can afford it hehe.

[Valfreyja]

I think it's a great idea to have a price range you can refer to and that most builders follow.

To start of I picked this post by Tigris out of the Construction and Housing Forum.

Here's what I normally charge... (cpu=coppers per unit placed)

Flax Bolts: 200cpu
Flax Tapestries: 400cpu
Kenaf Bolts: 600cpu
Kenaf Tapestries: 800cpu
Cotton Bolts: 1000cpu
Cotton Tapestries: 1200cpu
Silk Bolts: 1400cpu
Silk Tapestries: 1600cpu
Ironsilk Bolts: 1800cpu
Ironsilk Tapestries: 2000cpu

...Which is cheap given that ironsilk is surrounded by T5 and *T6* mobs.

I'm not saying these are fair or not - just some numbers to start the discussion. Most in the forumseemed to agree with those prices butthere should probably be a bit of difference between the different building clases.

[metagruen]

I knew Tigris post but after some consideration I see them too low and made a bit adjustment upwards.

Flax Bolts: 300cpu
Flax Tapestries: 500cpu
Kenaf Bolts: 700cpu
Kenaf Tapestries: 1000cpu
Cotton Bolts: 1500cpu
Cotton Tapestries: 1800cpu
Silk Bolts: 2200cpu
Silk Tapestries: 2800cpu
Ironsilk Bolts: 3200cpu
Ironsilk Tapestries: 3500cpu

cpu = copper per constructed unit.
Also the different schools will have their prices adjusted since some material are harder to come by. So I guess cobalt work will be higher and ironsilk might even be a bit to low.

I took Tigris price range and changed them a bit to reflect the higher resources.

but only to make a small calculation: if you need 200 units on a building this will cost you in tier 5 700s for only the weaving work. add to that the other resources and you will come to realize that you might have to pay around 3-5 gold for a big building.
On the other hand: already some people were saying that in higher tiers you can make 300-400 silver / hour.

So before all the people start to cry and say... too expensive...think a moment and compare.
To do around 200 units of T5 you will have to work more than a day's worth. In the same time someone crafting tier 5 stuff for pawn can make ~2+ gold.
Also: tier V buildings are no little bit of armor piece, but they are there to represent a plot.
People building tier V strucutures should have a bit of money to afford it.

Another calculation: 200 units of Silken work = 400-480 silver. Above sample this could be achieved by some PB runs in the same time. So it's just fair.

Seeing that a lot of forms lately go for 150s+, and I paid 120 silver for my Brew Stirrer (ONE TOOL!) I can only say that my price range from above is not really high.

Add to that, too. that in future we will have to port more often with shrinked vaults and i pay around ~300-500 for one port.

Whatever, I like the idea of a Builder Unit. But I won't disrespect anyone who builds for lower coin. However I never liked the undercutting.

[Demitri]

id have to agree more with metagruen's prices, Tigris' are way to low.

[Myca Ghimerov]

100 silver per tierV construction unit would be an outrage, considering the amoutn that need to be built in o.O good money tho, if someone wants to pay that for enchanting work, message me XD
I think around 5 silver would be fairly acceptable, but I would have to stand by Mysk if he says the forms are expensive...especially knowing the amount of forms some people bought before the patch, from the vielos...

considering this list though (where I consider them to be just the tiers, nto the cloth shtuffs, I dont do that...
"Flax Bolts: 300cpu
Flax Tapestries: 500cpu
Kenaf Bolts: 700cpu
Kenaf Tapestries: 1000cpu
Cotton Bolts: 1500cpu
Cotton Tapestries: 1800cpu
Silk Bolts: 2200cpu
Silk Tapestries: 2800cpu
Ironsilk Bolts: 3200cpu
Ironsilk Tapestries: 3500cpu"

I think the lower may be a bit cheaper and higher a bit more expensive, like

Flax Bolts: 150cpu
Flax Tapestries: 250cpu
Kenaf Bolts: 400cpu
Kenaf Tapestries: 650cpu
Cotton Bolts: 1000cpu
Cotton Tapestries: 1250cpu
Silk Bolts: 2500cpu
Silk Tapestries: 3000cpu
Ironsilk Bolts: 4000cpu
Ironsilk Tapestries: 5000cpu
after all there's plenty of ppl who could do tierI in a day, tierII in three, if they work steady on...maybe have another class related to the resource branch. much more time would be needed for tierIII and up...

[Galilee]

A maybe interesting but imo certainly neccessary thing to discuss before starting off with pricing of things: what is the if you will 'foundation' from where making any prices should start.

I for instance (being well aware others may and will think differently) tend to look at this thing rather realistically: the only thing really invested by players, low- and high-level, guildand non-guild, newbie andlong-time-player, is time.

And so (this being a game...) 'time' in my option should be the by far biggest component in ány price-setting for ány product of ány school. Including of course a fair spread-out of the time needed to reach the point where theproduct cán be delivered (and what is 'fair' in that respect is of course another quite difficult topic ...). On top of that a little room (but not too much...) for weighting the price one way or the other with factors as boredom, danger,stressfactor and maybe more is needed; and then the end-price should be able to be a fair one for ány product of ány school.
This cóuld of course lead to, for instance, a cobalt sheetingbeing móre expensive then a mithril one.... well so be it then[*-)]. Illogocals in there are AE's part for making the game there illogical: not up to us to cover that up by false pricing, but up to AE to change some game-factors then...

Also I have been experimenting a bit with 'time-bartering' and that too isimo a concept worth some more looking-in-to.

Of course only the way I look at things. Others may well see things differently...

Will be interesting, to say the least, to see all european cultures and backgrounds trying to find common grounds to build up from [H]

[Dvergar]

Meta, your list reflectsthe prices prepatchI took for t1-t3.

t1: 250/500c
t2: 500/750c bzw750/1000c (depending on location)
t3: 1000-2000c (depending on location)

now t4 (obsidian) will depend greatly on where there will be a good field for that (dralk/wizards tower will be expensive)
t5: depends on whether I get the plot I want or not :)

Remember that pawning tools is still much easier than running and gating around.Now that the focus is no longer on the big player towns, but on the racial towns, this leads either to massive gating with expensive fees or multigating.

[Faz]

[;)] I have 4 RL friends ingame If we dont think things are cheap enough or people are trying to extort the economy like on various shards.. we just make the crafting schools ourselves.. and do our own work. I have met many people on ICE in my few months there and I would like to say very helpful and mainly mature people. Obviously There are a couple of children there, I wont name them, But on a whole ICE trades people were a really nice bunch always offerd to help and never overcharged. Dragons = Bipeds made no odds. It is the one thing that truly appeals to me In horizons the lack of children..... And on that note i would like to thank all the crafters out there that helpd when I couldnt... From Faz too all on ICE thankyou. see you all on Unity[:D]

[Ariadne]

Count me in..

it'd be nice to organise some community projects too (we did on Ice after the major changes and the feeling of community (no pun intended) was awesome..

perhaps we could both fix prices & do community work?

Ariadne

61 Tailor, 43 Carpenter, 32 Weaver etc

[Farre]

Ok we'll pay, we don't wanna see a picket line before our house. [:D]

However this have be tryed in various crafts also, and someone always did dump the prices 1 cp under at conni.

Maybe you'll have more luck with an Union, but I doubt it. anyway good luck with it [;)]