Well I dont know about any of this drama that people are talking about. I dont know about any exploits either. I found out about this today. Some of the people who were banned were nice to me though.
Devs, can you please fix ice tomb and shatter on the Ice Desciple class now, you hit the button and it does nothing.
Sorry I had to mention that.
Dragon crafting is exceedingly easy, even without lodestones I hit 100 in 7 days
7 days /played time, or 7 days IRL time? Dunno how you'd get crafting to 100 with 7 days IRL time, what, with having to go so far away for some of the higher tier ingredients and all. But maybe if you had someone helping you...Originally Posted by AA0
Either way, I hope EI -realizes- this, and don't go banning people on suspicion of exploiting when they really did nothing the game doesn't normally allow them to do...
--Dhalin
I read the "announcement" again, and they do use the word "Multi 100th level" which indicates to me they are concerned for those that use this "exploit" (which a lot know about but I will never use it) to get multiple 100th level crafting characters. I am pretty sure that they are talking about the Naka Dueskal and not the dragons, but I could be wrong.
Dragons have 2 crafting classes, and they aren't hard to level (with help of course).
I have helped multiple dragons with their ROP requirements using my lair. I have storage silos all around a stonecrafting chamber (btw, Caststones AND lodestones give the same XP when made).
I fill 1 tier 3 silo with 6875 slate bricks (because my lair sits under the slate fields) and then go to AI or Sakon and fill 3 silos with essence, and have the hatchling come in and open the silos. Now, since the silos are all right around the machine, the hatchie doesn't even have to move a muscle, and basically can load disk and pack with the items and make T2 cast stones at 3:1 efficiency until they reach 36th level, when they drop to 2:1
You can get a hatchie from 27th to 39th level in the time it takes them to click make place (in empty silo) the caststones. If I no longer have anything that requires T2 construction, I give them to the hatchie to sell at pawn brokers (or the one in my lair once it gets done) for money they will need.
The naka way is exploiting a bug in the game that gives XP for doing nothing.
Justa Mirage: Ranger 100 / Healer 92 / Carpentry 100 / Confectioner 100 / Fletching 92 / Weaver 62 / Gatherer 34
Flatspin: Ancient Lunus Dragon 100 / Craft 100 / Lairshaping 100
Publicity stunt and a bad one at that.
Bannings for exploitation meaning diddly squat if you have no ability to fix the exploits in the first place. So when you can just creat a new character and play for free and level to 100 very quickly and you know there is no hope in all this being fixed. Then those bannings do not mean much and are of no deterrent value.
Since we all know PME has no dev team Im not sure what the purpose was other than to generate publicity which in the end just hurts their already destroyed credibility even more.
MadDwarf, don't momma dwarves tell their dwarflings "If you can't say anything nice...?" Not every little thing that is done needs to be twisted into "PME is *&($#". Sheesh, find something else to do.
Foxfire Godspell, Ice Queen of Istaria, Dark Defenders
Manta Guild Community @ Collinswood
Knoc/Conj, Mastercraftswoman -and-
Ravagice, Horde Fueled WunderWyrm
Well, quite simply MadDwarf is 100% correct. Accept that for what it is.
It is better to regret something you have done, than something you haven't done.
I went on a journey with one of the people that was banned who asked for my help teaching them how to use SOAP. Told them about tools that would be needed, made them learn some PHP, and the basics of wireshark. In the end, many will be happy to know that unless you've already done this stuff before and wrote down some important numbers, it's not possible to modify account info once banned.
Either: In the process of banning, the accounts were completely removed.
Or: When in a 'banned' state, the server returns useless data specifically to avoid the kind of thing that's been discussed here.
If the account actually still exits, then there's a way to get the numbers needed that are denied when banned... but you need the server PW. So, in short, it's very unlikely that any of the recently banned will be logging back in with the chars they were using.
That doesn't prevent them from starting over with a new acct, but it will slow down anyone wanting to cause trouble. Also, the experience of losing their chars might modify their behavior a bit, so be nice to new players... even if they turn out to be someone that was once banned, maybe this time they'll just try and have some fun to avoid drawing attention to themselves.
-Frid
P.S shardpop today at 3PM AZ time was 75 Chaos, 40 order
Fridlekh, why the hell would you even consider helping them out in the first place? These are people that deserved to be banned. Exploiters, public anoyances and disrupters among other things. I believe people can change, but they have been a problem for a long time and I think the only lesson they will learn from this is to be more discrete about their activites. Do you honestly believe if that had been able to gain access to their characters again that they would have become model citizens of Istaria from then on? Would not be surprised if the only thing they would have wanted would have been to hand off their ill gotten gains to their new characters. This is the one and only good thing that EI has managed to do since they took over. Granted, I'll make no secret that I have no love for EI at all but don't help screw up the little tiny bit of good they did do by aiding these people.
My reasons were many and various.
<rant>
I know that whether or not I had helped, they already had a new account set up, since I was first contacted through HZ. Aiding them or not, nothing is keeping them from bothering others again if they so choose.
While I may not expect them to become model citizens, negativity becomes a feedback loop. If the one doing 'wrong' by popular view feels that nobody likes them anyway, they have no reason to stop their actions. I've been in similar situations myself where I've done stupid things, and simply being treated with respect and being given another chance was enough to alter my own perspective.
In the event that the person was able to unban their account, I would hope that they kept to themselves, or remained non-disruptive and just had fun. If their intention is to harrass pthers, then they will do so anyway, my actions would have only accelerated their ability to do so somewhat.
In that case, I'd hope that it happened sooner rather than later, and as a result of this long-standing security issue, because maybe it would finally force the hand of EI/PME to fix the problems with the ability to create null-info accounts and exploit SOAP - which, seems a lot less exploitable after a ban than people have been speculating.
Of course, it looks like they CAN'T unban their accounts, so while my feelings on the issue may stand, the scenario wouldn't come to fruition that way anyway. Instead, they just have the ability to create countless new accounts as needed if banned, and must work that much harder at getting to a high enough level to kill steal. (though verbal annoyance is free)
I'm infatuated with the *potential* of Horizons. I have no love for 'developers' that have no intention of developing, nor much sympathy for players that are content with the stagnation of what progress was being made. I have no real desire to help potentially disruptive people do things far beyond what they would normally be able to do, but I don't have any problem working with them to further my own knowledge of how things work, or in the worst case, using them as leverage against a company that refuses to fix problems.
If it means getting banned myself, then so be it. If it means HZ getting shut down rather than being fixed, then (and I'll get a LOT of flak for ths) good. Because if EI/PME isn't even willing to fix these fundamental account exploit problems, they will certainly never fix any of the other problems with the game, and it's better off RIP than left in its current undead state.
</rant>
I can only say: Thx for this words Fridlekh, u spoke well
nah my momma taught me taught me to deal with reality. Problem is people here like you never do. They continue to live with their heads in the sand and when someone nudges and tells them they ought naught do that they get a wee bit upset and ornery.
What I stated was fact. Doesn't matter what has been mentioned here about the exploitability of SOAP. Fact is PME has no ability to fix the issues these people were being banned for. So until they have the ability to fix these issues they best deal with the people exploiting these issues in a silent manner.
Its about integrity and credibility. Two notions lost at times 'round these parts. Hire a developer or two and fix the problems.
Oh man, now i have to reply. First Sol is correct, the FIRST and VERY FIRST thing these 'players' did was to create new toons, then jump right into MP and Dragon chat, pissing and moaning about how they were singled out for thier misdeeds! How they did so much for the game. Then started they're BS about how they were just top dogs, playing to their abilities, etc. etc.,etc.. Even how if you turn in enough tickets you could get someone banned. They will NEVER change, as they do not see that they did anything wrong. I for one have this opinion, they are BD! (Behaviour Disabled). Were BD children, and now they are BD adults! You reward they're behaviour with comments, and it give them the attention they CRAVE, negative attention, but attention none the less. Just stop helping them, talking to them, when they try to bait you into word 'spats' in MP or Dragon chat, ignore them. If they ask for help, politley refuse! Sooner or later, if no one in the game gives them any attention, they will move on to WOW, EQ, STAR WARS, or some other game where they can be 'top dogs', or 'may the best modem win' crap...
"A lepoard cannot change their spots"....
Why dont we just ignore them complety!
EI took drastic measures against drastic players who thought they were untouchable. Guess they were proven wrong! When they start up again, then maybe, EP will ban their IP's...
We are a community driven game, don't let 1-5 players with 10-20 alts ruin what we have here.
And to answer MadDwarf, There is nothing that is secure, i know. I deal with it at work all the time. Takes time to write and test code. Takes time to fix things that the other guys left no docs on how to do. I could hand off an app to you with no docs, that was screwed up, in a system you knew nothing about, or at the least very little, how long would it take you to fix?
(sorry about the rant!)
Telshyia
Ancient Chaos Dragon
Dragons can kick butt in crafting espically with mith scales on all with the craft +'s on them, I think Elek tookalot longer as a biped to get to his lvl 100's in crafting tho.
[07/21/06 16:56:07] [Old Blight: Bounder] [07/21/06 16:55:29] You have advanced to level 100 in the Dragon Crafter school!
[07/21/06 16:56:16] [Old Blight: gregzilla] grats
[07/21/06 16:56:19] Bounder was created 31 days ago and has been in Istaria for a total of 6 days 1 hour.
OK the old sig was too long , this one is better.
"People here like you"? Get a grip. I've never sung EI's praises. I've just heard your opinion a thousand ways from Sunday, and even when EI does something at least partially correct you still jump up on your stump and tell them what they did was wrong and a "publicity stunt."
You're just a bitter old dwarf, I'm tired of hearing your carping. Go dispense your disingenuous reality somewhere else, where people aren't playing.
And you really ought to think about the difference between "stating a fact" and taking a set of facts presented just so to state an opinion. You cannot state that EI banned these players as a publicity stunt as a fact. If you think so, it's dictionary time for you.
Foxfire Godspell, Ice Queen of Istaria, Dark Defenders
Manta Guild Community @ Collinswood
Knoc/Conj, Mastercraftswoman -and-
Ravagice, Horde Fueled WunderWyrm
7 days IRL time, not playing time. My dragon never passed level 20 adventure and still hit 100 craft very easily, if you go to the right fields you'll notice just how easy it is.
not its called Dev 101
In any program that has a series of bugs that allow the end user to bypass its very functions to do something its not supposed to do needs to be addressed. In the normal business world the one in which I work and develop in every day we fix those bugs and if we do our jobs right they are caught in development and testing.
In an MMO the developers have to watch their end users since they are players. If your players are exploiting a bug to gain an advantage over the rest of the population yes you have to deal with them. But you have to as well FIX THE bugs and exploits in question or dealing with the players MEANS NOTHING. Exploiting is against every EULA of every MMO I have ever seen. So yes PME dealt with these exploiters. But at the same time since they have NO ability to deal with bugs in question that caused these exploits, thats only half the equation here and a very minor half of the equation at that. Therefore logicially the bannings mean nothing and they know that.
So why bother going through an elaborate announcement ? That is the question because those that were banned are probably already playing again anyway for free. Oh I could come up with many reasons why but its all conjecture. My only conclusion it was nothing more than a publicity stunt to show the players PME still lurks albeit in an rather impotent way.
So do not hail this as some kind of miracle action by PME because it simply it is not. It is as well nothing to gain hope over.
As I said hire people to fix the bugs or let horizons die. The state the game is in now is just sad. Those that were banned probably weren't paying for an account anyway.
I hate to say this Frid but many of these exploits were around way before EI bought HZ. There were many tickets sent in on these exploits to TG. TG never fixed them.
Re: Bannings on Chaos
and you are saying PME can ? Tulga as an entity was woefully incompentant. There are no words to describe PME's lack of IT ability.
btw PME banned Frid's accounts here and in game LOL.
Re: Bannings on Chaos
OMG just come from hospital home and this is news ...... omg i dont have word to express my feelings. best news i ever see and very gladly for that now people in Istaria world on Chaos server can enjoy fully again.
THANX millions times Ray for that and little order and happynes on chaos shard
no more words because dont know how to say my english not perfect but i think everyone understand all
THANX THANX again
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