Plot Reclaim??

[JDexter]

If the plot reclaims are 6 months out then there will be a problem.

Coming new to the game and not having the ability to do one of the highlighted features of the game is a major problem.

When you sign up, you have the ability to purchase a subscription with or without the ability to purchase a plot. If I was a truly new player and not a renewbie, and I saw that there were plots all over that were in limbo because of inactive accounts and all I could get was a crappy 22x22 in an out of the way place, then I suppose I just wouldn't bother.

I feel for Unity, I really do, because what happened to them was ridiculous (and not the fault of the current devs). But the game NEEDS to grow or else it will be gone for everyone.

That's why, to me, a plot reclaim is a very important thing that needs to happen. We need the world to be available for people who are coming and want to play.

It can't wait six months, that would be deadly.

[Peaches]

If the plot reclaims are 6 months out then there will be a problem.

Coming new to the game and not having the ability to do one of the highlighted features of the game is a major problem.

When you sign up, you have the ability to purchase a subscription with or without the ability to purchase a plot. If I was a truly new player and not a renewbie, and I saw that there were plots all over that were in limbo because of inactive accounts and all I could get was a crappy 22x22 in an out of the way place, then I suppose I just wouldn't bother.

I feel for Unity, I really do, because what happened to them was ridiculous (and not the fault of the current devs). But the game NEEDS to grow or else it will be gone for everyone.

That's why, to me, a plot reclaim is a very important thing that needs to happen. We need the world to be available for people who are coming and want to play.

It can't wait six months, that would be deadly.

And it would be just as deadly, to the folks that are still having billing issues. It would NOT be fair to lose all my work into building up my two plots.

[Helious]

It can't wait six months, that would be deadly.

To be honest it think it would be more deadly to go after new customers, at the present time.

But to look at it another way, they know they won't have any problems with player retention (assuming the transfer is done to an acceptable standard) in fact these players will be around long after Vi i suspect

Plus before the game is ready for a large influx of new players i suspect the dev want to 'tidy up the place and make sure she's ready to set sail (again).'

New players expectations are quite different these days from what we expected games to be like 2 or even 1 years ago and i think the devs appreciate that and want to make sure were all polished and presentable before a crediable attempt to attact new players.

Not that new players arn't always welcome, i know i was made to feel so.

[Jael]

There is another solution to the plot problem as well. Everyone seems to agree that the 22x22 plots are useless. They could be combined into larger plots that would be more useful and people would actually want. Also that could make the player towns a good place to own land again, instead of just the very largest plots in each town being owned, and the rest left open.

[Vermithraxx]

If the plot reclaims are 6 months out then there will be a problem.

Coming new to the game and not having the ability to do one of the highlighted features of the game is a major problem.

When you sign up, you have the ability to purchase a subscription with or without the ability to purchase a plot. If I was a truly new player and not a renewbie, and I saw that there were plots all over that were in limbo because of inactive accounts and all I could get was a crappy 22x22 in an out of the way place, then I suppose I just wouldn't bother.

I feel for Unity, I really do, because what happened to them was ridiculous (and not the fault of the current devs). But the game NEEDS to grow or else it will be gone for everyone.

That's why, to me, a plot reclaim is a very important thing that needs to happen. We need the world to be available for people who are coming and want to play.

It can't wait six months, that would be deadly.

Why would 6 months be a problem? These plots have been stagnant for ... what? A year? Year and a half?

I'm couting from the answer to the question: "When was the last plot reclaim done?" Any time past that is stagnation.

Keep in mind that this game just surfed thru June 2006-Sept 2007 as is. No development, no hope for a future, and people stayed and played.

I agree that a plot reclaim should/needs to be done... and I suspect the fanfare/advertising surrounding the event will be impressive and will pull more peeps in. But "it can't wait six months" is a fallacy that doesn't take into account that some players WILL play this game, plot or no. It's a niche game, tho plot/lair development is part of that niche.

I agree that certain communities/plots need to be erased and re-designed. 2 years of plot stagnation, and the community of Heart is STILL an absolute ghost town. (How sad is that? Community plots so pathetic that people would rather not own anything at all.) The Devs should take a clue from what people *refuse* to buy and simply do away with those sizes. What's the point of having the plots available if nobody will ever want them?

As for new customers... maybe. Someday. As has been commented before, Horizon's is a niche game with a sandbox feel. (I like that sandbox description.) We'll never attract the hardcore dedicated gamers, which is how players already in the game like it. Word of mouth has already brought a few subscribers back, but attracting 10k new players with dragon quests incomplete at 70, no lairs and lack of developable plots... that'll be a while.

[Sindala]

just to add on from the last post, i'm really not that botherd about a plot/lair at the moment, because untill i get my old chars. accross from Unity i cant afford to buy a plot anyway.
A 29x29 will cost in the region of anout 200s so i cant see the big deal because their are loads of these about.
What your wanting is a huge plot which will probably cost atleadt 1g, and that will probably take you 6 months to earn antway ^^
Their on the right track by putting Euro old players first, we did play the game and have our shard stolen over x-mas with no warning, so yes concentrat on the old players which will come back and star before thinking about the new age of players with the 1 week attention span ^^

Long live the new revolution ^^

[Kulamata]

If MMOGCHART is correct, about 6,000 more players are needed to hit 10k. When Tulga was sold, there were 10,000 players, and the count was growing rapidly. If rumors are correct, the low point before da dragon-lub and da newb-lub was roughly 5,000; with those changes and others, plus a modest but effective marketing campaign, the 10,000 mark was reached and Hz was at break-even. (Not counting the cost of developing the second game. ) The market is probably tighter now; nonetheless Hz has a good marketing story... "Under NEW managment, REALLY this time!" So I don't see the 10K number as unrealistic at all. The game is already better now than it was then; the client has been improved (Amazin'!) and the average machine is a year and a half more capable.

Probably the main reason now for holding back on seeking new players aggressively is Vista. When that's fixed, pedal to the metal, hammer the Hummer, gopherit!

I'm not sure about the little plots. They make good starters, and with Novians, the pain of moving up to a larger plot later would not be too great. I'd expect that with a lot of requests from the community for upgrade plots that, in due time, a few more islands would rise from the Istarian seas and voila'. A bit of bridgin', attunin', and it's happy constructing.
In any event the matter will be much clearer after reclamation.

[Vermithraxx]

If MMOGCHART is correct...

Is there a new project with updated numbers? Where do they get their data? As it stands, looking thru what I downloaded, their data doen't pass a reality check.

They have May 2005 as 10k subs, a small surge to 12k for Jun-05 thru Feb 06, and then a final drop to 10k subs for Mar 06 - Dec 06 when the data seems to end.

... so after EI took over in June 06, nobody left?

btw, all of this is a moot point I'm sure. Unless somebody can link me where Virtrium has all of their subscription data posted so that we can actually see how many subs they have... anybody will always be able to say anything and fudge whatever numbers (good or bad) that they want.

[Justa Mirage]

Vermithraxx, I got a good laugh today, I perched atop the peak on top of my lair and tried to see how many lairs I could double click on from my vantage point and yours was one of them.... nothing but finished corridors and one tier 4 hall, and a tier 2 library? <snickers>

I hope that people won't use "billing" as a reason to stall plot reclamations.

Those that were given the chance to log in and renew their accounts. If they didn't, they are taking the risk... it they were logged on long enough to say "This is my property" and not have it erased.

Those that are having billing problems are getting them fixed so let's hope that the reclamation is smooth and comes soon.

[Vermithraxx]

Vermithraxx, I got a good laugh today, I perched atop the peak on top of my lair and tried to see how many lairs I could double click on from my vantage point and yours was one of them.... nothing but finished corridors and one tier 4 hall, and a tier 2 library? <snickers>.

<grin> So much to do, and so little time!! Day #107... 31 million hoard, 100/100/100 Ancient, 100 Healer, 63 Armorcraft...

...what was I doing before I got distracted? Oh yeah, Lairshaping and building my lair!! <DOH!!>
<snicker>

I hope that people won't use "billing" as a reason to stall plot reclamations.

Those that were given the chance to log in and renew their accounts. If they didn't, they are taking the risk... it they were logged on long enough to say "This is my property" and not have it erased.

Those that are having billing problems are getting them fixed so let's hope that the reclamation is smooth and comes soon.

Agreed, and can't see it. *I* was one of the peeps with a recent billing issue (Paypal cancelled my grandfathered sub for me) and we got that ironed out in record time. Virtrium's definitely on the ball.

Plus, just to give hope to all waiting for plot reclaims, remember that the intent to have a plot recaim was THE FIRST thing Virtrium announced, before we even knew we had new management! (Remember the post by Horizons-CS back in June/July?)

Virtrium knows the plot reclaims need to be done to revitalize the game... but those darn Unity players got in line before it! I mean, what, Virtrium wants to get more players into the game?! <Hmmm, does kinda make sense >

[Helious]

If MMOGCHART is correct.

These sorts of charts have always been an educated guess at best and that is all they have ever claimed to be (if you read the small print ). If you look at Runescape on MMOGDATA (for the curious http://mmogdata.voig.com/) you'll see they steadily grew to 781k membership and then held it for around 10 months before overnight hitting 5.84 million subs.

Horizons had held stead at 4k since April 07 ..... well at least it gives something else to talk about

[Peaches]

<grin> So much to do, and so little time!! Day #107... 31 million hoard, 100/100/100 Ancient, 100 Healer, 63 Armorcraft...

...what was I doing before I got distracted? Oh yeah, Lairshaping and building my lair!! <DOH!!>
<snicker>




Agreed, and can't see it. *I* was one of the peeps with a recent billing issue (Paypal cancelled my grandfathered sub for me) and we got that ironed out in record time. Virtrium's definitely on the ball.

Plus, just to give hope to all waiting for plot reclaims, remember that the intent to have a plot recaim was THE FIRST thing Virtrium announced, before we even knew we had new management! (Remember the post by Horizons-CS back in June/July?)

Virtrium knows the plot reclaims need to be done to revitalize the game... but those darn Unity players got in line before it! I mean, what, Virtrium wants to get more players into the game?! <Hmmm, does kinda make sense >

Yep, pay pal cancelled one of my accounts for a very invalid reason from my understanding. DOH!

[Tryagain]

<sarcasm>A most excellent idea! Good thing you aren't in a position to make those sort of decisions. It's difficult to top the damage EI has done to Horizons, however, I think you're on to something with that idea! Refine it a little bit more to completely obliterate every player's time investment and you might just have a winner.</sarcasm>

you just answered my underlying question.

If you are not comfortable and willing to start a new in your MMO of choice because the prospect of going from level 1 to max level again is to daunting than your game of choice has *serious issues*

You just said no way not a chance in hell because its to much work to start over in this game again. Should it not be as much fun as it was in the first place ? Or was it any fun at all in the first place anyway ?

But yeah you know I was just kidding. I was highly interested to see the responses I would get. I predicted right and its something I hope vitrium takes notice of as they work the game.

[Frith-Rae]

you just answered my underlying question.

If you are not comfortable and willing to start a new in your MMO of choice because the prospect of going from level 1 to max level again is to daunting than your game of choice has *serious issues*

You just said no way not a chance in hell because its to much work to start over in this game again. Should it not be as much fun as it was in the first place ? Or was it any fun at all in the first place anyway ?

But yeah you know I was just kidding. I was highly interested to see the responses I would get. I predicted right and its something I hope vitrium takes notice of as they work the game.

well then all MMOs have seirous issues - there's not a single game -MMO or single player - that I've ever wanted to restart and work my way back through again.

I don't replay single player games very often - and I don't have "alt-itis" in any of my games.

They just aren't THAT great of an activity for me to repeat it all *chuckles*

SO Horizons woudlnt' be alone in this. You certianly can't center it out because of that criteria *chuckles and winks*

[Zexoin]

you just answered my underlying question.

If you are not comfortable and willing to start a new in your MMO of choice because the prospect of going from level 1 to max level again is to daunting than your game of choice has *serious issues*

You just said no way not a chance in hell because its to much work to start over in this game again. Should it not be as much fun as it was in the first place ? Or was it any fun at all in the first place anyway ?

But yeah you know I was just kidding. I was highly interested to see the responses I would get. I predicted right and its something I hope vitrium takes notice of as they work the game.

Well I'd say it is fun cause it is new, and once you know the game mechanics, doing it again from lvl 1 is no more fun

[Kulamata]

Is there a new project with updated numbers? Where do they get their data? As it stands, looking thru what I downloaded, their data doen't pass a reality check.

They have May 2005 as 10k subs, a small surge to 12k for Jun-05 thru Feb 06, and then a final drop to 10k subs for Mar 06 - Dec 06 when the data seems to end.

... so after EI took over in June 06, nobody left?

btw, all of this is a moot point I'm sure. Unless somebody can link me where Virtrium has all of their subscription data posted so that we can actually see how many subs they have... anybody will always be able to say anything and fudge whatever numbers (good or bad) that they want.

My apologies, my bad, I meant http://mmogdata.voig.com/
which has taken over the MMOGCHARTS of Sir Bruce. Where do the data come from? Leaks, educated guesses, former employees, press releases. The most professionally managed games (EVE and WoW) release figures officially and even give the criteria for inclusion.

[Magfuddle]

Everyone seems to agree that the 22x22 plots are useless.

In the context of guild plots my tiny plot was perfect for a garden. However I would have to agree that for individual plots they are useless otherwise.

[LaughingOtter]

If you are not comfortable and willing to start a new in your MMO of choice because the prospect of going from level 1 to max level again is to daunting than your game of choice has *serious issues*

Then by that litmus test WoW has *serious issues*. Every time I think about leveling up one of my alts to 70, I slap myself with a large trout and log into Horizons.

I think you'd find the same resistance in every game community. Nobody is going to like the idea of having everything they worked for wiped out. It's not a matter of not wanting to level up again, it's a matter of not wanting to lose the work they've invested, and it proves nothing about the nature or quality of the game under discussion. It's a meaningless red herring and the only reason you threw it out there was to manufacture a pretext for bashing Horizons yet again.

[Vermithraxx]

you just answered my underlying question.

If you are not comfortable and willing to start a new in your MMO of choice because the prospect of going from level 1 to max level again is to daunting than your game of choice has *serious issues*

You just said no way not a chance in hell because its to much work to start over in this game again. Should it not be as much fun as it was in the first place ? Or was it any fun at all in the first place anyway ?

But yeah you know I was just kidding. I was highly interested to see the responses I would get. I predicted right and its something I hope vitrium takes notice of as they work the game.

Actually, you just took an answer and wrapped your own meaning around it.

MMO's are about time. Every since the 'pay-to-play' industry emerged, the games have always been about 'Get an onjective accomplished' and the game 'but make it take as long as possible'. In some games you have to take a 15 minute boat ride to get from Point A to Point B, in other you move so slowly that just running that distance will take 15 minutes. It's all about sucking as much time out of your life as possible while keeping you interested and focused on your goals.

But *nobody*, in any game, wants to see that time wasted needlessly. So let's take your example. A game company says "Oh, by the way, we're deleting all your characters. Feel free to start over." What happens? Mass hysterics, people stomp their feet, cross their arms. Most move on to more trustworthy games, a few stick around in the forums to comment on a game they don't play anymore, others accept it all as entrtainment anyway and start over.

On the other claw, let's suppose a weird data eating mutant virus gets into the internet. When it hits HZ, it eats the character database, all the backups, get indigestion, and dies. (I'm supposing.) It's a tragedy, completely out of Virtrium's control. Would people start over then?

I think they would. As was proven thru the past year+, there are players who will stay thru anything. Plus, let's talk about 'it's to much work'... This game gets my vote for 'Easiest MMO ever'. I re-created my account 109 days ago and am 500+ levels into it already. (It also gets my vote for 'Most Poorly Written' but that's a whole other issue.) Compared to the other MMO's on the market, this is a kid's toy. If you only have an hour to log in, that's an easy level or two right there. Most MMO's suck the time out of you by making their leveling curve a lot steeper.

Sure, I agree Horizons has a ton of *serious issues*, but that's definitely not one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Getting this thread back on track: Oy! Horizons-CS!! How long till plot reclaims!!! <Hey, can't hurt to ask directly >

[Creme]

On the other claw, let's suppose a weird data eating mutant virus gets into the internet. When it hits HZ, it eats the character database, all the backups, get indigestion, and dies. (I'm supposing.) It's a tragedy, completely out of Virtrium's control. Would people start over then?

I think they would.

Hey....

Let's not give anyone any ideas

Next thing you know, there will be a weird data eating mutant virus floating around and we'll all be level 1s.