(Discussion) Spell Line - Ideas for Improvements

[Steele]

Primal: alot of good suggestions are already out there. A single direct-heal line like revitalize would help Dragons a ton. A "Gold Rage" type ability for spellcasting would be more than fair.

Honestly, I'm not sure Dragons should receive a castable rez; they're masters of Primal, *not* masters of Life; if they were masters of life, they wouldn't have lost Draak Colony. I'd rather see their offensive power boosted; Dragons, right now, are simply not something to be feared in battle. Dragons should be good to go with 4 AEs + Lunus/Helian breath weapon (long timer as it may be); I'm part of the crowd that would like to see an augmented Burning Embers: +hit, chance at a direct-DoT and turns flame breath into an AE.

As far as buffs, since bipeds get gift of speed I'd like to see Velocity added to Dragon's Gift - I don't think that would be unbalancing, considering my biped can top >145 Speed (with road bonus) under the right conditions. Then add two other gift spells: Gift of the Lunus (+str/dex/health) and Gift of the Helian (focus/power/armor).

[Steele]

Spirit: unless you need health and don't have revitalize/regrowth handy, there really isn't too much of a reason to do anything other than websurf after throwing a few Blight debuffs and initiating your repeater. Add a non-ethereal spirit nuke, and bump up the damage component of Theft of Life and Ethereal Leech, while keeping the amount healed static, just to make them more worth their equal (theft) and slower (leech) cast times when compared to the repeater bolt.

[cauri_order]

The Ice line still has it's repeater. If I remember right, the forms are purchasable from the NPC over in the Sorcorer Tower. I have the expert version on my dragon.

As to Dark Cyclone - it is limited to the "mystic" schools. Unless something's changed only Blood Mage, Cleric, Druid, Guardian, Healer, Paladin, Ranger, Reaver, Shaman, Spirit Disciple, Spiritist, Storm Disciple.

Primal - since they modified the breeze lines (years ago), the HoTs are pretty good. I would like the casting time decreased and Health Increase fixed to work on all ticks. Otherwise, I'm fairly happen with dragon healing.

[cauri_order]

grrr can't edit after 30 minutes:


The Gift of Lunus/Helian is an interesting idea, however, it overlaps some existing spells. True Grit already gives a bonus to Health / Armor and Promote Vitality boosts Str/Dex. A third buff (which has been requested for years) for power/focus for our caster bretheren would be most welcome.

Just curious - what does being a master of primal and not of life have to do with losing Draak?

[Steele]

Went through the quest lore over the weekend, so it was fresh on my mind... the fellow who threw himself into self-exile talked about not being fast enough to save Draak, and prevent the slaughter of all the students at the colony/academy... rezzing their dead simply wasn't an option to the dragon reinforcements that arrived, though healing up the near-dead was.

Unless I misread, it was the undead who began rezzing the dead dragons (in addition to re-raising fallen undead), which turned the tide of battle against the dragons and forced them to abandon the colony.

That's all I meant, really... it seemed that dragons, although masters of primal magic - through which I thought was born all other schools of magic - they were unable to master that magic to bring the dead back to life.

[Steele]

The Ice line still has it's repeater. If I remember right, the forms are purchasable from the NPC over in the Sorcorer Tower. I have the expert version on my dragon.

As to Dark Cyclone - it is limited to the "mystic" schools. Unless something's changed only Blood Mage, Cleric, Druid, Guardian, Healer, Paladin, Ranger, Reaver, Shaman, Spirit Disciple, Spiritist, Storm Disciple.

Well that makes me look silly... I NEVER realized that the ice bolt was in the Sorc tower. I'll gladly check that out - one item off the list.

And DC... is already limited? I would have sworn other classes were in there when I had it linked to me last night! I'll have to doublecheck that.

Though the rest of my thought remains unchanged, I apologize for those two inaccuracies!

[brainbasher]

As a Cleric...i have allways thought...should be able todo something against undead....a stun or empower your mace with extra damage on undead(own weapon only)..
make these spells unuseable on multi-class if not cleric....life needs more undead attacks...

[Steele]

Well that makes me look silly... I NEVER realized that the ice bolt was in the Sorc tower. I'll gladly check that out - one item off the list.

Picked up copies of ice bolt and impr. ice bolt at the Tower of Magery tonight. Thanks so much for opening my eyes to that.

And DC... is already limited? I would have sworn other classes were in there when I had it linked to me last night! I'll have to doublecheck that.

Yeah, I misread DC... I need to be more careful about rushing; I was trying to write a bunch of stuff out before I started losing thoughts before I could capture them, but that's no excuse. I do apologize - I hope those two inaccuracies didn't distract too much from the point of my post and the other details I fleshed out.

Thanks again for the corrections.

[cauri_order]

No problem. If i remember right, the icebolt spells were added just a few months before Tulga was sold. It was one of the last patches applied before I quit the first time.

As to the rest, I like just about all of your other ideas for the different spell lines. My favorite was the suggestions for the mind line. That spell line is in desperate need of some help.

[Steele]

As a Cleric...i have allways thought...should be able todo something against undead....a stun or empower your mace with extra damage on undead(own weapon only)..
make these spells unuseable on multi-class if not cleric....life needs more undead attacks...

Oooh... yes! Great idea! Braindump inc! Here we go -

Life: Add a self-only, castable by Cleric/Healer/Paladin only "Divine Infusion" attack buff in the vein of the Energy/Flame/Ice Attack lines. For all tiers, only adds +1 weapon damage (delay adjusted), BUT gives a 1% per spell-tier chance to stun ONLY undead targets for 1sec duration on successful melee attack; enough to land a lucky interrupt on an enemy heal, resurrection or nuke, or maybe interrupt a queued Critical Strike or Cleave. Something like this might actually encourage Healers and Clerics to engage in active melee at the higher levels, instead of mindlessly casting a Spirit/Nature repeater. It would also give Paladin's a very fair and reasonable boost against their arch-opponents: undead.

Additionally, leave the recycle timer on Mystic Blaze at 60sec, and leave its base damage alone, but add a 5% chance per spell-tier to apply two 35sec duration, 7sec/tick (so 5 ticks total) DoTs: one life, one flame; it IS a blaze, after all. Tier5 would have a 25% chance to apply each DoT, kinda giving it the feel of one of the Summoning line spells. This would make it viable as THE only single-target offensive Life nuke; the second DoT (flame) would be a very nice touch for flavor and effect, as well as the potential for extra punch.

Add a Divine Nova spell, castable by Cleric/Healer only, as a Point Blank AE with a 10m range. Give it a 5s cast, a 30s recycle and exempt it from ALL hasting/cast time reducing buffs and abilities. However: give it an aggro reduction proportional to damage dealt; perhaps (damage dealt)*(100% + (20% per spell-tier)), ie, 120% of damage dealt at Tier1 up to 200% of damage dealt at Tier5. This would cancel out the aggro of the damage dealt + yield an additional reduction qual to 20-100% of the damage done. If Tier5 hit for 300 damage on a mob, for example, then it would reduce that mob's hate by an amount equal to the aggro caused by 600 damage.

Clerics and Healers shouldn't have a magic clear-aggro button, but this would at least give them a viable, balanced tool to deal with the sometimes extreme aggro from uncontrolled adds, which pick up healing aggro socially from other mobs making them VERY hard for a tank to peel off. The long (5s) casting time would allow Clerics & Healers to employ strategy on when to cast the spell, as they need to make sure their groupmates won't need healing for the duration of this cast + the casting time of any subsequent healing spell. And it would at least let them be productive during that time, instead of sinking valuable time into an unoriginal, bland spell with hate reduction as its only effect. And finally, give it a badass graphic - this one has potential!

Both the attack buff spell and the holy nova could very easily be introduced via quest during an event... might be fun to come up with the lore! In fact, just off the top of my head, the holy nova could very easily be tied into the Battle of Tazoon: the self-sacrifice that took place outside the city, and the huge blackened crater that remains there as a self-generated memorial.

[Steele]

Oooh... yes! Great idea! Braindump inc! Here we go -
In fact, just off the top of my head, the holy nova could very easily be tied into the Battle of Tazoon: the self-sacrifice that took place outside the city, and the huge blackened crater that remains there as a self-generated memorial.

30 minute edit limit.

Perhaps an expedition found additional clues about the artifact...
Perhaps... maybe... Ryson Lightbringer himself might make a reappearance...!

Ok, back to work for me!

[Teto Frum]

May i ask whats going on with this thread. It was started due to complaints on the linked timer thread and calmed many people down, the thought was wow the spell timers can be a great fix if it leads to spell lines fixed up. Now quite some time later i see not one response on this thread from VI, do they not share our concerns about spell line holes. This now seems after casters which im not and therefore havent commented have taken time to outline their ideas, just another dead issue. This is something that certainly should have been addressed along with several other concerns before moving on to a disc revamp that half the current population thinks is unneeded.

Ive read the thread people have put alot of thought into this, a simple we dont think its a big enough problem to worry about from VI or a we agree and will get to it response is all thats needed so folks can stop wasting time thinking and posting about. Or just sit backpatiently waiting when VI says hey open it back up we're on it now.

[Steele]

Honestly Teto, I would say if you or I want to question why the devs haven't commented, etc. we should start a new thread. I'll do that next.

I'm the last person in the world that should make that request, but really it's only reasonable. This thread, afterall, is supposed to be for the ideas and their discussion. If it gets cluttered up with off-topic stuff, as valid as your question is, folks might be less inclined to read through the overall thread if they encounter too much of its type, less inclined to offer their own creative ideas.

As it is, I fear our suggestions may be getting lost in the shuffle, simply because the thread is three pages long and 4 months aged since the OP by Menkure.

As to what the devs are doing... a) I'm sure they have their hands full trying to get the confectioner revamp out in at least a semi-timely fashion, and b) before anyone representing VI the company comments on this stuff I'm pretty sure they'll want to make sure their comments are appropriate in the eyes of those whom run the show. Granted, it's been a little while since someone with a Sherriff's badge has posted, but I truly believe that thier silence does not equal turning a blind eye to something they asked us to brianstorm about in the first place.

And yes, my posting this appeal is hypocritical thread-clutter in its own right. I'm all enigmatic that way and stuff.

[Steele]

Primal: alot of good suggestions are already out there. A single direct-heal line like revitalize would help Dragons a ton. A "Gold Rage" type ability for spellcasting would be more than fair.

Been thinking again... dangerous, I know, but I can't help it.

Another great pair of Primal additions might be:
A "Scourging Winds" spell - essentially, directing primal magic to do a medium primal DoT + pulsing medium-strength dispell. 3-4 waves, 5 seconds apart, with a chance to dispell 1 beneficial buff from victim with each pulse. About as same total damage as an immolate (but concentrated into fewer waves) but with each dispell pulse slightly less potent as the bipedal "Dispell". 60sec recycle. This would fill a MUCH needed gap for all Dragons, but especially for Dragon casters, imo.

The other thing I was thinking of is essentially the reverse... a "Cleansing Breeze" spell. Self-only, no healing at all but instead acts as a shorter-term "Surge of Health & Armor" buff (ie, no stacking interference with Dragon HoT spells). The Primal magic channelled through these winds protects and purifies the caster: 3-4 waves, 5 seconds apart, each wave is a slightly weaker version of the bipedal "Purify". 60sec recycle. This would also help fill a MUCH needed gap for all Dragons.

My apologies ahead of time, but this soapbox burst out of my brain along with those two spell ideas:

<soapbox>
Since all "elemental" schools are essentially split out from grand-daddy Primal magic, a Primal spell effect might never be as potent as one from the pure elements... because the pure elements are, in a sense, specialized and are highly effective in very specific roles. However, primal should be able to incorporate multiple elements to achieve non-standard effects. These two spell ideas would be great examples of helping to start the differentiation of Primal in that fashion (DoT + Blight elements; Augmentation + Life elements). Right now Primal, with few exceptions, is just a "blander" version of a generic elemental school... and fixing Primal would (I think) go a long way toward contributing to a more true sense of identity (in-battle, especially) for Dragonkind.
</soapbox>

[Creme]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but a "life bolt" would be a nice addition to the spell line.

Currently clerics/healers (and other life-based skill classes) can only cast Mystic Blaze, which has a relatively long recycle. Adding a bolt to their repertoire would improve their builds.

[Summbuddy]

a note to the ever ongoing dragon wish for more.. ok i agree the dragon needs some love. but unfortunatly it is the most powerfull single class and should be but as it stands currently they can heal while running and out damage almost any byped aside from maybe someone with a well planned character with 3+ 100th level adventure classes and likly a couple crafts to 100 such as fitter to reach crazy strength. also they have a superior resurrect and yes it costs hoard but the way hoard drops now days almost nobody crafts hoard anymore. they have dot's regens rez aoe and special debuffs not to mention the ability to be completly self sufficient. they can level quite easily using their abilitys if they know what to do and have more quests to play around with that i think all the byped class quests all put together. not to mention verry nice hp's and more sockets than any other race. don't get me wrong i love the dragon racial class and think it's great.
the only aspect i can see to improve the dragon is to greatly differentiate and totally redo the factions. as it stands now lunus is easier to right of passage and of most all the dragons i have met the lunus is more powerfull than the helian. mind you i said most as no two players were created equal and i have seen helian use their abilitys to great effect. but i do think perhaps the gain of a multicast and perfect spell to the helian and maybe the loss of gold rage and gold shield and make the new abilitys hoard dependant appropriatly. this would allow for greater distinction between the factions and allow the helian to be more comparable with the mage class. to have one class with all abilitys is unfair to the balence of the game. if you are jealous of a byped then make one thats just my opinion. mayhap an add that would be appropriate would be elemental claws so they have the ability to tailor to target. mayhap a helian and linus version one affecting spells one affecting mele or a buff to allow damage diversity. I know many people will not be happy with this post and i apologise if it offends you. but for one who has so much for relatively so little to get what makes a ped a ped.... then all ped classes should get primal? (rhetorical question) or heres an idea let peds heal and cast self based aoe's while moving :/ (sarcasm) I'm sorry if i come out sour but i have for a long time seen dragons get all the love... yet for some reason they just want more more more... fyi it's the most well rounded class in the game....

[Oakleif]

Summbuddy,

I don't think that I can argue with lunus dragons being very well rounded, although they can't hold a candle to high-level multi-classed bipeds in combat. However, it has been shown that dragon spellcasting isn't on a par with dragon melee abilities. That imbalance is all that is being addressed in this thread by the dragons.

[Zexoin]

Gold burst, Gold Burst, Gold Burst. Please. That's all I ask for Helians ; an attack similar to Gold Rage but Primal-based. Make it linked to Gold rage if you want to but, please, we really need that.
I'm really upset when I see that a lvl 80 Lunus can one-shot an Elite Blight, when I can barely drop it's hp to half with mine.

[Oakleif]

Note my suggestion on the Dragons > Adventurer > Should dragons have different adventure schools? thread. I outline what we need from a Gold Burst spell, as well as several other suggestions for the Dragon Adventurer class from a caster's perspective, and tried to keep it all ballanced too.

[Balthizar]

Primal spells.

Need the healing tects for dot healing working on every tic.

Dragons need to gain Augmentation skill line at least the gifts. Make them quest able or trainable but something.

I realy dont wish to hear but that one dragon gift do's so much. It's realy a rip off of KNoC Blessing of Istaria ablity.

Thats it for dragon spells that would go along way in helping most Dragons and lower the ever inc. Is there anyone in XXX that can give T5 buffs plz.

I'm going to do the Arcane line as its the one I know best.

Fire its gold dont jack with it.

Engery to few spells plz add in the cool AoE spells for engery thx u

Mind need some damg spells here. Mind bulltes can be a 3.5 sec repeter would work great.

Last but not least Conj. were to begin on this one I dont know. It lacks so much but implys so much.

1 heavy nuke Ice hammer and 1 medum nuke flame spear. O ya that epic spell that my flame bome out damges too.

Most of the conj skills is in the conj ablity line. You need to add more to the spell line any thing is possable here. i.e. more nukes engery saber. More def Ice sheild. A repeter energy daggers. Just something more.

The two worst off Arcane spell lines is conj and mind with conj in the far lead.