developpement on stand-by ?

[CallakDW]

i am sorry things are not moving fast enough for you, but child, that's life. the horizons team is constrained by many many factors, some we know and some we don't. i, for one, am convinced they are doing everything the best they can at the fastest pace they feel comfortable with. i see signs everyday that work is progressing - unfortunately for you and the others, you apparently do not.
call, please try to understand this - HORIZONS WILL NEVER BE WOW, OR EVERQUEST, OR SWG. ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. small games take small steps, because they have to. big games can AFFORD to take big risks and make big changes. horizons can't.

For one, please dont' call me a child, I find it insulting. For two. Fixing problems with the game is not the same as making it like another game. Fixing the problems with the game is not changing the game, it's improoving it as it was originally intended to be. I'm very tired of seeing people say they don't want to see another clone. Neither do I, but parts of the game are simply not working well. For three, some of those now big games out there did not start that big, but had big problems fixed so they could become big games, this isn't happening with HZ, each new company just keeps making small tweaks here and there, usually twards crafting which HZ is very strong in as it is.

Oh and the festivals are all nice, but they are only around for a short time. I want to see morme big base problems fixed that stay year around.

[CallakDW]

Callak, willing and able are very different things. I'm not any more privvy to Virtrium's financials than anyone else, but it should be obvious to anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense that overspending and running out of operating money would be fatal to the game.

By the way, milking means taking without giving back. The Virtrium team is mostly composed of volunteers who are giving without expectation of compensation. As for Rick, if you read the interviews he's given you'll see that he is using his own money, not venture capital from someone else, with Horizons. I think it's safe to say he's sunk a lot more into Horizons than you and I put together.

Patience, Grasshopper...

How many years do I have to be patient? Just a few more? How many years has it been? I've lost count. But regardless what you say, I'm still not sure HZ is going to survive with only Ricks money going in. Big fixes need to be made, and they aren't happening.

[CallakDW]

But it's our perception that changed, the newer products constantly raise the bar. Constant patches, mega-sound, mods, in game tickets, in game shopping, content and events and "fun items" (a la shoulder cow) poured in to appease the more and more capricious and demanding players.

I'm not honestly asking for constant content being poored in, I just want some problems fixed that I've posted tickets about years and years ago, and never saw results. The dragon neck graphic problem. The dragon head vanishing problem. The kutit transformation problem (popping in the transformation). <- Those are minor but have been around for a long time. The spawning issues. <- This is major, and probably one of the biggest causes of lost subs. Mabe one or two in game bugs that I've ever reported out of somthing close to 10 or more has ever been fixed in all the years that I've played the game. Don't I have a right to be a little upset? Every time I try to spearhead some movement someone asks me if mabe I'm being a little unfair.

[Shian]

*shrug* If you're unhappy, find another game. Chances are you will find the same quirks/bugs and issues just with a different face. It's everywhere and in every game. Except for Wow I think, but that's why I don't play it

[Velea]

I am posting to say thank you to those who "get it". To those who continue to support Horizons and what Virtrium is doing, who give us the time to move forward, and who understand that game development is a long, slow, often thankless process, I say thank you. Thank you for the trust you place in us each time you subscribe. It says to us that you know that we understand what Horizons is, and trust us to start it moving forward again.

Yes, getting the development ball rolling forward after more than a year of stagnant, and even backward movement in some cases, is taking a great deal of time. Just bringing everyone who is on the development team "up to speed" is taking time. Many of the volunteers, and even some of the new paid developers, are learning the "inside" of the game, as well. I look at what's been accomplished since mid-August and have to say it really is a great deal. Just getting billing fixed and secure was a major undertaking, and they've since put a second billing option out for testing as well. Blight is back up and working without a glitch (as far as I know). A new support system has been rolled out and since doing so support tickets are responded to quickly and regularly. There have been five deltas, some big as far as players can see, some smaller from a player point of view, but still it's five. There's been new content, including new artwork, for the fall festival, in addition to bringing back things from the past that players enjoy. There have been a couple emails to players letting people know Horizons is “back” and what's happening with the game, as well as reestablishing contact with the press through interviews. And it's only been about four months, with some of that time being spent just getting a team established. In reality, the team as it stands right now has only had weeks to work together. And that's just the visible things that players can easily see. That doesn't include the work on things which are still not ready for release.


From having spent the last 6 weeks designing, developing, implementing, and troubleshooting a new Winter Festival (Gnomekindle), I can understand much better just how many man hours it takes to make changes to a dynamic world such as Istaria. It has been quite mind boggling at times to see how intertwined every small piece of the world is with the rest of the world. I think we've worked out the various problems and issues surrounding the Gnomekindle festival, and should soon have it ready for testing on Blight. I hope that when you see what a part of the team has been working on since the Fall Festival went live, you'll be able to see that we are working and know that this is only a small part of what the overall team has been doing. This is ready for taking to the public, while many other things aren't. Everyone on the development team, from volunteer to full time employee, has set a high bar for what we present to the public. We don't want to roll out content, updates or changes that are anything less than fully thought out, extensively tested, and as error free as humanly possible. Things that might have been considered acceptable by previous development teams of Horizons aren't for this team, and that means we've got to take the time that those teams might not have so we can reach that bar. Previous development teams had different expectations, different goals and different limitations than this team has. And while some things must logically carry forward from one team to the next, the goal of this team is learn from past teams, set our own goals, and have high expectations from every member of the team so that what is presented to our players improves and adds to the world of Istaria.

So thank you, each and every one of you, for your patience, for giving us the time and the trust that you've given to us. Hopefully as time passes, you'll see that your trust and time is well placed.

[Zexoin]

Thank a lot, Velea. That's exactly what I wanted to know. Sorry if I've caused this thread to turn in a rant.

[brainbasher]

I like the cut of your jib young Velea

[Arietna]

oooooh Gnomekindle

*backs away into a corner and hopes it doesn't mean using Gnomes as kindling*

(love the update, thanks Velea)

[katt31m]

Thanks for the update.

Muslyx

[Alladania]

Oh no!!! Not Gnomekindle! What are they going to burn down this year? You saw what that last Gnomekindle did to Old Rachival. :P

[LaughingOtter]

Gnomekindle runs at the same time as Hoardmas...

Coincidence? I think not!

[Tryagain]

How many years do I have to be patient? Just a few more? How many years has it been? I've lost count. But regardless what you say, I'm still not sure HZ is going to survive with only Ricks money going in. Big fixes need to be made, and they aren't happening.

Callak

Horizons has been from day 1 a game of promises and just wait. That train is coming around the next corner honest. Horizons has been a waiting game for 4 years now. Sometimes I think people spend more time waiting for stuff in HZ to get done than they actually are playing the game.

Horizons is a game about patience. If you run out of patience its just best to move on. Seriously there are some very good MMO titles coming out in the next 6 to 8 months. Some small some large. Even right now there there are good alternatives to HZ if you are just done waiting.

But in the end Vitrium will do what they can with the resources they have. I have no doubt they are trying. They are after all just as human as you or I.

P.S Velea... for sake of a point. This team is the same as the last correct ? Its just smaller. Lets try not to diffuse mistakes of the past by believing those mistakes were committed by a different entity. Vitrium is TulgaAE its just smaller and has I hope a leader with vision that has been forged from the mistakes of the past. They were all there, remember that. History can be learned from. Vitrium I doubt will commit the same mistakes again.

[Velea]

P.S Velea... for sake of a point. This team is the same as the last correct ? Its just smaller. Lets try not to diffuse mistakes of the past by believing those mistakes were committed by a different entity. Vitrium is TulgaAE its just smaller and has I hope a leader with vision that has been forged from the mistakes of the past. They were all there, remember that. History can be learned from. Vitrium I doubt will commit the same mistakes again.

Actually, incorrect. Very much incorrect. Yes, some of the same people who worked for Tulga are on the Virtrium team. In fact, it's been stated publically already that Rick has been there since AE days. However, it is not at all correct to say that the team as an entity is the same.

[lightning claw]

You know what throws of you that think Hz is still going down hill i Pity u it appears the withered ages have done there best to make you one of them


Hz is vast and Huge Dynamic and a great game with Permission of the Virtrium team i just spent about 1.5 weeks to make a Power point Presentation worthie of this game Let me tell you there so many angels of this game it was harder than i thought

i am more than willing to wait as they have proved them selfs worthie of this game throws of you that think other wise hears a Email address for ya

[email protected]

and i would suggest that you do grow up a bit or at least challenged your views of this game

seeing post like this angers me and it should belong in rants or not posted at all


I am a supporter of this game till the lights go out i will be hear and if it takes them some time to create a functional team i would not triad that for a slope pach or cheep event period .

*Dissclamer ** i do not spell good but this needs to be said *

[Vahrokh]

Vitrium is TulgaAE its just smaller and has I hope a leader with vision that has been forged from the mistakes of the past

It does not matter if 99% of the personnel were (notice the conditional, because it's not true) the same, what matters is the head.

In my former WoW guild i.e. we killed Illidan a lot of time ago but the leaders were absolute BEEP and I'd do lots of mistakes because of how much they were approximative as well. In the new one I am still myself but do very fine and we breezed thru Black Temple back to Illidan happy and safely (despite using different tactics).

In Horizons is the same, there were some amazing programmers "before" yet you know the results. Now they shifted the decisions to someone else, hope he's different too.

[Zexoin]

You know what throws of you that think Hz is still going down hill i Pity u it appears the withered ages have done there best to make you one of them


Hz is vast and Huge Dynamic and a great game with Permission of the Virtrium team i just spent about 1.5 weeks to make a Power point Presentation worthie of this game Let me tell you there so many angels of this game it was harder than i thought

i am more than willing to wait as they have proved them selfs worthie of this game throws of you that think other wise hears a Email address for ya

[email protected]

and i would suggest that you do grow up a bit or at least challenged your views of this game

seeing post like this angers me and it should belong in rants or not posted at all


I am a supporter of this game till the lights go out i will be hear and if it takes them some time to create a functional team i would not triad that for a slope pach or cheep event period .

*Dissclamer ** i do not spell good but this needs to be said *

Wow. I can't belive what I read.

I am no supporter of this game you say ? Darn, I've never left this game since I first played to it, back in may 2006, I've stayed here during the whole EI days, when most of the player base ran away !
The only time I had to leave was when I couldn't afford it anymore ! But thanks to my kind friend, who offered me a sub, I could still play until I got the funds again.
This MMO is the first I've ever played, and will be the last, I think. I have no interest in any other one.
You don't even know what I tried to do to preserve this game ! and you dare tell me I am no supporter of it ???
Like we say in my country, I am sur le cul.
Darn, like every other company that owned Horizons, Virtrium have good points and bad points ; it's completely stupid to keep those pink glasses on your nose and say everything is ok. It's better to point those defaults so they can be corrected. I don't think I've started a rant, otherwise the mods would have move this thread in the appropriated section.
Like any of the playing people, I am a customer, and I have questions that deserve to be answered. So I did post this topic, and I got the answer I wanted to have thanks to Velea.
Then, there's no point to continue this thread, and I ask the mod to close it, so it won't turn in a rant anymore.

and Lightning, please, please, PLEASE, try to spell and write your posts correctly ! English is not my native tongue, and sometimes it's extremely hard for me to understand your posts.

[lightning claw]

Wow. I can't belive what I read.

I am no supporter of this game you say ? Darn, I've never left this game since I first played to it, back in may 2006, I've stayed here during the whole EI days, when most of the player base ran away !
The only time I had to leave was when I couldn't afford it anymore ! But thanks to my kind friend, who offered me a sub, I could still play until I got the funds again.
This MMO is the first I've ever played, and will be the last, I think. I have no interest in any other one.
You don't even know what I tried to do to preserve this game ! and you dare tell me I am no supporter of it ???
Like we say in my country, I am sur le cul.
Darn, like every other company that owned Horizons, Virtrium have good points and bad points ; it's completely stupid to keep those pink glasses on your nose and say everything is ok. It's better to point those defaults so they can be corrected. I don't think I've started a rant, otherwise the mods would have move this thread in the appropriated section.
Like any of the playing people, I am a customer, and I have questions that deserve to be answered. So I did post this topic, and I got the answer I wanted to have thanks to Velea.
Then, there's no point to continue this thread, and I ask the mod to close it, so it won't turn in a rant anymore.

and Lightning, please, please, PLEASE, try to spell and write your posts correctly ! English is not my native tongue, and sometimes it's extremely hard for me to understand your posts.

LOL not u

the other dude that was ranting

[Pharcellus]

Actually, incorrect. Very much incorrect. Yes, some of the same people who worked for Tulga are on the Virtrium team. In fact, it's been stated publically already that Rick has been there since AE days. However, it is not at all correct to say that the team as an entity is the same.

Hardly.

I don't think anyone has said any such thing, but the facts remain:

1) Most of the Virtrium team is comprised from ex-Tulga members.
2) It is led by someone who had management-level responsibilities with both AE and Tulga.
3) It still has the same "flavor" of communicativeness as Tulga and, while it is still early to tell for sure yet, seems like there is a natural gravitation towards "old, bad habits".

Yeah, the team is "different" as a whole, each member is "different" individually, and there are some new folks. However, how much variation on a theme is required before you actually DO have a "new" theme?

Is Virtrium "different" enough from Tulga/AE to allay the concerns of repeating the mistakes of the past? Yeah, I am sure folks are talking about it, but we STILL don't have decent, regular communication, and there's no one really prominently acting in the role of Community Manager. Same old problem since the AE days.

[Oakleif]

I think the correct count is:
- Rick/HorizonsCS - Worked for AE and Tulga, was not a decision maker with AE and had mid-level management responsibilities with Tulga, now head of Virtrium.
- Ammon and a server tech worked for Tulga but not AE and are in the same positions with Virtrium.
- Everyone else working for Virtrium that I'm aware of did not work for either Tulga or AE. Some of the Vitrium team did do work for GamersInfo.net with the community site or the game's QA team, but they were not employees of Tulga or AE. Others on Virtrium's team are completely new to the game's development and QA teams.

As far as the communicativeness, I'd personally prefer that the developers were learning the system, working on isolating and fixing bugs, making new content, and letting moderators pass on comments and concerns that aren't "support ticket" issues rather than spending time reading and responding on the forums themselves.

[Menkure]

I will echo Velea's comments. And Oakleif, you pretty much hit the nail right on the head.

The team is not the same as Tulga, or AE, either in terms of employees or management and organization. And by "management and organization", I'm speaking about how the team is ran, what the teams goals are, and the outlook.


Virtrium is also growing, and most of the people who are working on horizons right now are people who have had no prior experience working with HZ. Not saying that no prior experience means they don't know what they are doing, mind you.. for example, I was brought on as an intern recently. I never worked for Tulga, or AE, and as an artist I have helped with the new event (Gnomekindle), and will be involved in quite a lot of other things.

I have seen, in just the short time that I have been working with Virtrium, just how dedicated everyone is to the game and its development. Everyone is committed to improving the game through bug fixes, and expanding upon it.

Callak, while I do sympathize with how you feel.. This current team is far different from Tulga and AE, and certainly there is no comparison between Virtrium and the previous company that 'managed' Horizons. There has been a number of months where the team had to work and "pick up the pieces", if you will. As each day passes, the new team becomes more and more familiar with the game and its idiosyncrasies, and the results of the hard work and effort everyone is putting into the game will become quite apparent upon each finished Delta.

While some people may feel that communication may be lacking, the last couple of weeks have been pretty crazy for us because we've been hard at work on the game... and over here in the States, we had Thanksgiving to tend to. Many of us were away visiting family (I had 4 family thanksgivings I attended.. two for my family, and two for my fiance's family), and even though those of us that could work on stuff during the holidays did, the holidays did have an impact on development. Nevertheless, the fact that people did take work along with them while on vacation speaks of dedication.

Dedication and Commitment.. We're working very hard to fix and improve upon Horizons, and provide the best in customer support that we can. We're dedicated to the community, and are working on ways which we can help foster growth. We are working on Unity, as well as Vista compatibility, as well as the many many bugfixes and improvements to the client and server code that are currently being worked on.

-Menkure