Expansion of consignor page/window.

[Syndic]

I have been looking around for the past few days to upgrading a few of my items. So doing searches on the consignor page on the web I thought was the most efficient way to do this to save a lot of traveling around. The only problem is that the consignor page doesn't show player owned consignor. Considering that the "largest" consignor on Chaos happens to be a player consignor in Bristugo I find myself missing out on a lot of the items for sale by using the webpage search.

Any chance that players who have their consignor AND plot marked to "all access" be included in the consignor searches?

This will not only give a truer indication of what is for sale on the server but would give people a chance to set their own consignor up to be recognized as the place to go for special_item_01, rather than just another private storage dump as they are now.

As for the consignor/pawnbroker window in game is there a way for a player to type in a word or 2 to filter by? Was looking for Mason Cog's last night but found myself scrolling through hundreds of crystals to try and find them because there was no easier way. Another textbox on the filter window that would filter only items with that word in it would be very helpful. If I've missed where I can do this if you can, can someone kindly point it out.

[C`gan]

The only problem with this comes up in the plots themselves. Granted, for most of us who are here long enough to put up and maintain a consigner, it'll probably be around for a long time. However, when plot repos occur (and they ARE coming, we all know that), when the plot is done at auction, bought or not, it is razed. The consigners go poof, the inventory goes back into everyone's vaults, and there is no showing that they ever existed.

So, how do you code for something that is, even by the long standards we've had since the last repo, temporary? At best, it requires searching every plot and every lair, finding the consigners if they exist, seeing if they're 100% built, seeing if the consigner has been activated, and then checking for an inventory.

That's a lot of data crunching. How often would you want this search to go on every day? It will take off some of the server processing time for everything going on when the search runs.

[Galilee]

Let people who want their consigners on the list tell Virtrium they have an open consigner? That leaves only a small list for checking if consi still exists and is open, before listing what is on it, I would think?

[C`gan]

That'd definitely be a timesaver on the scan, knowing which ones are supposed to be checked.

Now, everyone put out the big, brown puppy-dog eyes to get Virtrium to put it in. B^)

[Fratricide]

If your going to list Personal Consigners on the list, then it should only prove equal to list those items placed on taverns as well.. since they also provide a place for resale to the community, even if it is only for food items.

[Syndic]

That's a lot of data crunching. How often would you want this search to go on every day? It will take off some of the server processing time for everything going on when the search runs.

Depends how the data is stored. I would have thought that anything that goes up for sale in the game be it on consignor, pawn broker, server owned or player owned would be in the same tables. Why create a new table for every consignor out there. My thoughts are that most likely at the moment they are actually filtering out player consignors. The only extra work involved would be the search to find whether the consignor is an open one or not.
Yes I don't know how the data is stored I'm just speculating on the structure, just thought we have a brilliant web search that helps the economy move and right now it is hamstringed by lack of usefulness.

If your going to list Personal Consigners on the list, then it should only prove equal to list those items placed on taverns as well.. since they also provide a place for resale to the community, even if it is only for food items.

Most certainly, even could consider having pawn brokers on there or other NPC sellers. This could also help players find NPC's and learn who sells what.

[Deth]

I am not sure how the data is stored for each consigner/pb/taven/ect, but being as each and every monster is it's own entry not a single entry that is pointed to by another part of the program it would not surprise me if each of this is not there own table.

[Steelclaw]

Before getting caught up in 'VI should do this!', consider a couple important questions:

Do players 'opt in' to have their consigners indexed, or do they 'opt out' if they don't want them showing up in search results? For that matter, should they have the choice? I'd imagine that there are some people who would prefer that their otherwise public structures not show up in global search results.

While we're talking about NPCs, how about players who have items for sale? Should those be searchable as well?


As an aside, I maintain a consigner search for Chaos which includes a couple player-owned consigners. It has to be updated manually, so the data is 1-3 days stale. Are there any player consigners that should be indexed? Are there any volunteers to help index them?

[Syndic]

I'm not saying VI "should" do this, it was a suggestion, coming from me as a player who would like to see what is on the market. I was thrilled last time I returned and the consignor page was there for my viewing pleasure. The page just doesn't provide the full service when the biggest consignor on the server is a player owned one.
As for Opting out, wouldn't the player then not make the consignor Allow All, or even change the plot to something other than Allow All. Why make it public if you have no intention of making it public.

Players that sell items from their inventory I would say are not stable enough for the webpage. Even the webpage is not a live view of the servers consignments, so unless the player intends to stand in the same spot for several days at a time (which no doubt I'm sure people have).

Currently Chaos has 1428 items for sale, the Bristugo consignor alone has 955. Wouldn't those 955 items (plus other consignors out there) be more useful to all if they showed their wares on the search.

I'm not saying it's a must but certainly something to think about.

[Steelclaw]

I'm not saying VI "should" do this, it was a suggestion, coming from me as a player who would like to see what is on the market.

Sorry, that didn't come out right. That's what happens when I post too soon after waking up.

As for Opting out, wouldn't the player then not make the consignor Allow All, or even change the plot to something other than Allow All. Why make it public if you have no intention of making it public.

It's not the intention of making it public, it's the intention of not making it show up in a global search. Consider the case where the owner wants to make some items available for sale, but doesn't want to have them come up on a search, perhaps because they want to make it obscure and more rewarding to the person who finds them.

As well, some public consigners are used for temporary resource storage and transfer. I'm not going to ask if this is a proper use of a consigner, nor do I want that discussion in this thread. The fact is, people do it, and indexing those consigners makes it easier for other people to grief those who do. It's not like we need more ways to cvff each other off.

Anyway, I think that the owner of an NPC should have a say in whether or not it is indexed in a search.

Whether it's opt-out, opt-in, or no-say should be decided upon before anything happens.

Edit: Let me define these terms so everyone knows what I'm talking about:

First, this only applies to NPCs marked as 'Allow All' on plots that are marked as 'Allow All'.

opt-out: The NPC is indexed and searchable by default, the owner can say "please do not index it".
opt-in: The NPC is NOT indexed and searchable by default, the owner must say "please index it".
no-say: The NPC is indexed and searchable, the owner has no say in the matter.

[Goriax]

Many consigners aren't open to the general public. Wouldn't want them listed even if it's only because the player didn't opt out.

[Syndic]

A consignor who is not open to the general public would not be listed anyway Goriax. The plot would need to be set to Allow All and the consignor also set to Allow All to even be considered for the index.

I would be happy to see an opt out option to see this information avaliable on the web. Personally I would not see a reason why someone would make something public without wanting to make it public but everyone has different opinions and reasons for these things.

Just seems to me the more I go looking for items to buy the more I get dissappointed in the web search.

[Arietna]

I'm still of the idea that consigners should be global - anything for sale should appear on all of them. (all those that have chosen to "opt in" anyway).

Alternatively, have a new type of consigner - a private broker - which is buildable and does not have items showing publically at all. Allow people to deconstruct existing consigners and get 100% construction materials back, and have the same materials cost for the new type of broker.

It's a thing that has great game appeal but I realise it's non-immersive, and not "realistic"..

And I know, the database wasn't set up for this, it'd be a big coding change etc, but games like well, I'm not going to name them but we know the biggies - don't require you to travel to lots of different areas to see what players are selling.. ok, NPCs are different, but not players.. unless you're dividing good/evil (which is not applicable to HZ anyway).

eek what a ramble.. hope it makes sense to others, not just me!