Cargo Disk Survey

[gopher65]

Specifically what I'd like to see is 2 things:

1) Each disk line (standish, Tarbash, standard, etc) have different tradeoffs. This exists to some degree right now, but what is the tradeoff between a Standish and a
Standard or a Delux? Nothing really.

For instance Tarbashes can hold darn near a silo worth of material (+) and they can teleport (+), but they are slow (-), they can only hold one type of material (-), they have a high useage level (-, but only when you are still leveling), and they can't recall (-). That is the type of tradeoff every disk should have.

Every disk should have different properties that make a person think about which type of disk suits their needs the best. And each disk should still be useful.

2) Instead of having Speed Caps on disks, have the speed reduced by a fixed number or, better yet, a fixed %age for each disk. That way things like sprint and boots of speed and wingscales would be helpful.

[Zexoin]

I’ve been thinking much about that cargo revamp ; I saw many good ideas in that thread, and I decided to write down what I’d like to see. (please note that I’m only suggesting things, I’m not saying this is the way it should be)

All the stuff below is based on the tarbash’s sandstone cargo disks, but can be applied to any existing lines.

First, I suggest to change Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk (regular one) speed cap into a speed reduction. It would look like :

Stats: Reduces speed by 70%
Prevents Recall and Teleport Use
Bulk Capacity: 6000
Item Capacity: 1

Now suppose that we can craft other disks, based on that one but slightly different. I suggest :

• Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk of speed

Stats: Reduces speed by 60%
Prevents Recall and Teleport Use
Bulk Capacity: 5000
Item Capacity: 1

• Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk of holding

Stats: Reduces speed by 80%
Prevents Recall and Teleport Use
Bulk Capacity: 9000
Item Capacity: 1

• Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk of “stacking”

Stats: Reduces speed by 80%
Prevents Recall and Teleport Use
Bulk Capacity: 6000
Item Capacity: 3

• Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk of recalling

Stats: Reduces speed by 80%
Allows Recall
Bulk Capacity: 6000
Item Capacity: 1

• Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk of teleporting

Stats: Reduces speed by 80%
Prevents Recall, allows Teleport Use
Bulk Capacity: 6000
Item Capacity: 1

Please note that I tried to counter-balance and benefit.

How could one craft those disks ?

Since disks can't be teched, they would require new formulas.

Example based on the regular Beginner Tarbash’s cargo disk, which requires 175 tinkering skill (275 at optimal) and :

• Sandstone Bricks (60 – 30)
• Dim Essence Orb (14 – 7)
• Bronze Tinkering Gear (24 – 12)
• Bronze Tinkering Spring (18 – 9)
• Bronze Tinkering Hinge (12 – 6)
• Bronze Tinkering Strut (12 – 6)

Then we get this new formula, Beginner techniqued Tarbash’s cargo disk, which allows you to craft all the cargos I listed above.

• Products : (all the disks above)
• Requirments : 200 tinkering (300 at optimal)

How would those formulas work ?

Components needed to craft those disks :

• 1 Tarbash’s sandstone cargo disk (a regular one)
• 5 dim blight cores
• 5 random tier I components (components vary for each disk)

That means that, in order to craft one of those “teched” disks, you’ll need :

• Both regular and “techniqued” Tarbash cargo disk formulas
• Sandstone Bricks (60 – 30)
• Dim Essence Orb (14 – 7)
• Bronze Tinkering Gear (24 – 12)
• Bronze Tinkering Spring (18 – 9)
• Bronze Tinkering Hinge (12 – 6)
• Bronze Tinkering Strut (12 – 6)
• 5 dim blight cores
• 5 tier I components

Here goes for the crafting complexity.
Also, using regular disks means those would remain in game for those that feel more comfortable with them *points at Peaches*

About allowing recalling with a disk, since that would mean no more teleport fees, there should be some compensation. I suggest the disk would consume a specific item at each recall, items that are only sold by specific vendors (which would compensate the teleport fees and make another money sink).

Kay I think that’s it. I hope all of this does make sense. The numbers given are random; I am not pretending it’s well balanced, I’m only exposing the concept.

What do you think ?

[Kessedrian]

I like the idea of teched disks but since that's impossible then I'm going to throw my "vote" into the same ring as the others asking for dragon disks with multiple stacks. Here's how my lattice crafting works right now!

I dig a disk and inventory full of one gem, fly back to where I'm going to process it and leave it. Return to the mine and dig a disk and inventory full of another gem, fly back to where I'm going to process it and leave it. Dig a disk and inventory of the last gem, fly back etc. Finally I pull exactly 277 of each gem out of storage and make them into tricuts, leaving the tricuts on the disk because it can't be used for anything else at this point. Repeat until disk is full and drop them into storage, then finish up the last of the gems and I will have successfully created about 2840 tricuts. Leave it all in storage and go out to the nearest crystal spawn. This part is more straight forward; dig crystals, focus crystals, store crystals, repeat. Once its all done, I put the crystals on my disk and the tricuts in my inventory, go make the lattices, store lattices, pick up more tricuts, return to my disk, and repeat.

I have access to guild storage though. What if I didn't? Dig 278 (going slightly over bulk limit) of each and just leave the tricuts I make on the disk.
Once the disk is full, or I have enough tricuts.... I can go dig crystals! I guess I'll park the disk at the shaper since it can't help me anymore with its only stack being used. I fill my standard inventory with crystals and focus them, make a few lattices and head to the lair to apply them. Then back to the crystals, shaper, lair, crystals, shaper, lair, etc. It's a painfully slow and agonizing process that would be made much easier if the disk could just hold 3 types of items (three types of gems at first, then tricuts, crystals, and lattices later). Of course if the disk can't teleport then it's still a pain to return to the lair but at least the crafting part is done.

The speed hit for using a disk doesn't bother me. My disk spends more time parked somewhere than on the move with me.

Now for the biped side of things. Peds already have a nice variety of disks to chose from. Standard, deluxe (which as far as I can tell is just a better standard), compact, Standish, and Tarbash. They can pick the one for the job. Speed with compact, stack with standard/deluxe, bulk and teleporting with Tarbash. But if you need to take the resources anywhere then Tarbash is the only choice.

I think all disks should be able to teleport just to keep people from having to juggle their disks around. The disks are already balanced against each other in stack/bulk limits, but Tarbash is the disk of choice since its the only one that fits in the carry-on luggage compartment.

[Alteherr]

how about increase the speed of the disks, then add a Crate/Box that can only be grounded. give the crate/box a nice size bulk (10,000) with 3 items.

[Bit]

Since I am not playing atm (awaiting Unity transfer) I am not sure of the exact stats of the present cargo disks, but my suggestion does not rely on them.

Our guild used to enjoy construction, and built 3 large plots as well as many community projects. One thing that I think would aid in group construction (be that group, guild or community events) would be a cargo disk that was visible and accessable by a group.

If the stack and bulk where enough, this could be planted at a workshop with individuals (with different tasks) all able to contribute the the final product. For example, park this disk (wagon?) in the granite fields around Aug (assuming that they are still there) with some members of a group mining, some making bricks and others making blocks/stones, each gaining experience if appropriate. Other members of the group could then be dragging the finished items (on their own 'normal' or 'wagon' disks) to the walls around Aug (or elsewhere) to complete them.

I believe that this would increase the amount of communal work put in by the community and individual sense of achievement, so reducing the number of broken items seen on our travels (still assuming here ).

For the more dangerous areas, a train of these 'wagons' could loaded up and then hauled by many crafters for placement, but guarded by adventures, allowing everyone to participate.

Just some thoughts I have had at work today.

<Bit sends and awaits incoming straffing>

[Salis]

I would like to put in my 2 copper.

First of all, crafting is a major grind at the moment. Now crafting should take some time, but gathering the resources is already a time sink, the travelling portion even more so. (Have lost the count of the number of books I read while moving stuff from the fields to my lair)
Since all disks hover above the ground, or are even capable of flight. I see no reason at all why the should hamper our speed the way they do now.

My first proposal is thus: remove the speed caps all together, what is the use of speed boosts if you cannot use them.

Second, currently there are many different disks in game, but so far I only ever used 2 of them (except when I was leveling up, and even then): being the Deluxe versions, and the flying tarbash with teleporting capabilities.
The deluxe version allows crafting in the fields, or at crafting stations without silos to use. And the tarbash to bring it all home.
Any other disk is actually useless as the first 2 have it all.
So I propose keep those lines, the way they are, without speed caps, maybe with a decent upgrade in bulk. Add teleport to the Deluxe.
Regarding Recall: I would allow it on both discs, but with a decent pricetag attached. In that way people who prefer to hunt, can use their money on recalling instead of porting home. Maybe make it the Teleport fee * 40 or something (aka 2 copper/ bulk of the disksize, so make sure you don't recall empty or it will cost you dearly), this would easily translate in some Recall orbs / Tier, purchaseable only at Imperial Vendors.

So in the end
Tier 1: Craft level 1
Stacker: 6000, Stack 10, teleport, recall, no speed limit
Transporter: 9000, Stack 1, teleport, recall, no speed limit

Tier 2: Craft level 20
Stacker: 9000, Stack 10, teleport, recall, no speed limit
Transporter: 13500, Stack 1, teleport, recall, no speed limit

Tier 3: Craft level 40
Stacker: 12000, Stack 10, teleport, recall, no speed limit
Transporter: 18000, Stack 1, teleport, recall, no speed limit

Tier 4: Craft level 80
Stacker: 15000, Stack 10, teleport, recall, no speed limit
Transporter: 22500, Stack 1, teleport, recall, no speed limit

Tier 5: Craft level 100
Stacker: 18000, Stack 10, teleport, recall, no speed limit
Transporter: 27000, Stack 1, teleport, recall, no speed limit

Anything else will complicate the game more than it needs to be.
Salis

[Sonea]

As a Tinker and maker of disks... here are my thoughts on the dev gods' suggestions:

cargo disks attune to the user the first time they are equipped: What value is there in this and to whom will it apply? Disks take three different resources (translate to gathering time), and are a pain to make because it takes springs and hinges before you can craft the actual disk. This will just make more busy work for the Tinkers.

cargo disks become more complex to craft: The real impact of this, again, is on the Tinker, not the general player base.

cargo disks require more resources to craft: See above.

I say leave the disks alone unless you want to add a 'for fee' recall.
Soni

[Goriax]

If this was all prompted as a way to reduce the grind of crafting, I'd suggest something else entirely:

Instead of messing with the disks, increase the speed with which we gather resources from nodes. I spend more time sitting over nodes then I do traveling. (although my laircrafting is still pretty low (because it's such a grind) so I don't know about higher levels). If they doubled the speed we gathered resources I think that would do more towards reducing crafting grind then anything they could do with cargo disks.

But if we are going to stick to cargo disks, I think a dragon disk like the biped delux except it flies would be very nice. As-is, I use my biped crafted deluxe at least half the time when I'm crafting.

As for a new disk, one which had increased capacity but reduced speed would be very nice.

I think they should avoid introducing stuff which allows us to blindly craft without thinking anymore then is already done. Crafting is mindless enough. No one disk and no one way of crafting/gathering should work in all situations. I think gating disks, or more disks which teleport, would just make things too easy and make it more likely that one approach would always be the best approach thus reducing what little thought is currently required for crafting.

I do think laircrafting is better at that then some, since it requires so many ingredients at different stages which have to be juggled. You have to think through your steps ahead of time. Perhaps more crafting should be like that.

Also, it would still be nice to have a more appropriate graphic such as a wagon.

[Teto Frum]

would like to see poll results if one of the choices was id change nothing. I think current system has worked fine for games whole run so far. Ive never heard disc complaints. If the belief is faster discs will attract more people, i have my doubts, these discs are the cornerstone of a craft system that all here love, and any that have left miss.

First MMO ive ever played that it seems owners are saying how can we speed this up and get people out of here faster. Changing the speed of one the most important time sinks in game will dramatically change the whole game play that has made Hz.

[Krystine]

I currently use a deluxe Standish with 10 stacks, 8k bulk, and speed of 52. This satisfies most of my needs so I voted for recall. What I'd really like to see in a disk is a bind point. Folks would have a "recall to disk" ability to get back to where they were when somebody needed them elsewhere. Or one could park it at far away resource like travertine and not have to run back out for another load.

[Finn of Spirit]

Hi ho!

I'd chime in on the cargo disk thing to suggest the only change that's really needed in my opinion is to allow 2 or 3 items on those monster single item disks, rather than just 1 item. 1 item worked OK in the old days, but with the 'new' ore changes (ok, so it's not all that new), it'd sure be nice to be able to chuck both types of ore needed for smelting in the disk at the same time.

I do really like the idea of having a crate or something that one could 'detach' from the stack on the disk and leave at the work station while crafting as well, but not sure how that could be implemented (since it's more like a dual disk thing). Perhaps just put in another disk slot that's 'grounded only', then you'd move 1 disk from pack to 'grounded' slot, and another disk from pack to the 'normal' slot to ground someplace else, or to drag. Sure, some folks would use it as vault space, but since it's only a handful of items, what's the big deal?

Oh, and hello to all those familiar faces on here!

That is all,
Finn's Player

[Tcei]

With the upcoming plot reclaimations, there's going to be alot of very useful plots and lairs that are going to be lost. For me, and Im sure at least a couple others, having to drag a fully loaded disk with the current speeds is painful enough with open silos and machines close by, especialy with my limited play times. Part of the reason why I dont log on more often during the week is because I dont have time to drag my disk around to make stuff.

I spent 3 days making tri-cuts and latices a couple weeks ago so I wouldnt have to bother with them again for a while, I could probably achive the same amount of work in one long marathon session on one of my days off and a good 90% of my time is spent flying.

Once the plot and the lair I was using are gone (because as far as I can tell these two players no longer play), the nearest lair with the storage and machines I need for just t1 tri-cuts/latices is Zexoins on the oposite side of the island. I timed it once, it takes me almost 30 mins to get from the malachite to his lair dragging a disk. Given how long the flight takes me, I wouldnt have time to work it except on one day a week when I can spend more than 1-2 hrs in game. I could easily have 3-4 of his silos filled for 2-3 weeks at that pace. And I know there are quite afew others that make use of his lair frequently Im sure they'd not appreciate me taking up so many of the public silos for so long.

If we were to raise the speed cap and/or change it to a % or fixed number that was affected by things like speed scales,potions/spells/ect. This would cut down on a lot of useless time sink. Dont get me wrong Im all for having a time sink, but there's a point where its a good thing and a point where its so much of a timesink it becomes a bad thing.

Who here ever played eq1 and tried to get the cloak of the pagasus in South Karana or anything off Phingel Autotrops? People would spend months even a year or more camping these guys (and others like them) several hours a day hoping to a.) see them spawned, and kill them. And b.) Hope that what ever you needed was on that corpse. Granted these were both epic monsters and so were suposed to be harder, but there were lots of mundane monsters that were the same way.

Anyways I've rambled on for long enough, I think I got my point across heh...

[Peaches]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but speed buffs do not give any player an advantage when towing a disk?

[Oakleif]

Peaches, you are correct with the current speed cap on the disks; all that adds to that speed is the road bonus.

Two of the proposals, speed reduction and percentage speed, would allow for speed buffs to have an effect on actual speed with a disk equipped.

[Zexoin]

/off-topic mode on

I could easily have 3-4 of his silos filled for 2-3 weeks at that pace. And I know there are quite afew others that make use of his lair frequently Im sure they'd not appreciate me taking up so many of the public silos for so long.

Indeed, everyone is welcome to use my silos, but anything that stay more than 3 days in my silos that is not mine is going to be deleted or used by me :3
So be carefull when you leave something there

/off-topic mode off

About cargo disks, let's be realistic, there won't be any secondary disk slot cause it would require a much longer time of coding. I think only new disks or modified current ones are going to be introduced.
Oh, and I would love new graphics for each disk line

[CottenCandy]

ok i didn't read all the posts (hehe started hurting my eyes), but i just wanted to point out a few things i have noticed and would like to see.

I'm not much of a crafter but i'm starting to get the hang of it lol (blonde moments alot :P)

the few things that just drive me batty when crafting are...
dragon discs only hold 1 item and all of the stuff they need to make takes more then one item on lair work (almost every thing except scales i think).
I've noticed some times it's faster to run on the road with my disc then fly with it.

i'm lvl 60 something in dragon craft, lvl 40 in lair shaping and a lvl 100 adventurer.
to fill a T2 silo with a lvl 60 disc takes about 4 ports now (rough estimate). One thing i would love to see with the discs are..

1) a T1 disc for dragons
2) to hold up to 10 things with each one (for lair shaping purposes an example like crystal lattices you need 3 types of uncut gems then made into tri-cuts, then you need to gather crystals and process them into focused items, after those are done you need to put them all to gether to make the lattices.. so all together you would have 7 items you need to hold.)
3) for each lvl of disc (lvl 20) it would be nice to see it match the same lvl of silo or storage unit (T2 silo/storage).

i know this one is a bit off topic but i would really like to see some xp from gathering resourses since that's what almost 80% of the crafting is. what i mean is say you are still gathering at 1,1,1,1,1 then you would get of each 1xp so 1xp per 1 gathered if it's 13 you get 13 xp. it wouldn't be enough to lvl off of but it would make it alot more worth while to craft, expecially if you spend 5 days (at least 12 hours a day) filling silos. so your getting something out of it. i know for me if i got xp from gathering i would do alot more crafting.

Oh well that's my 2 cents worth

CC

[Silverblaze]

I have two ideas...neither of which are supported by the poll, so I didnt vote

I think disks ( all of them) shouldt cap speed, but reduce it by X%

that would make the quints, ranger abilities, movement crystals, swift feet, gift of speed etc, matter while crafting more so.

can still reduce speed by 60-80% if you so desire, but then its variable according to ability of said crafter.

Same with flying disks...

I think a 500 or 1K bulk disk with no speed decrease could be cool, with high stack capacity...helps to clean vaults

maybe a mammoth disk with 95% speed reduction but HUGE capacity for moving construction stuff.

just ideas

another not so realisitc idea ( I wouldnt expect tpo see this by any stretch of the imagination)... have connectors to pull 1-2 addtional disks at speed reduction? would likey make crafting too fast so that likely wont happen, just would be cool/funny to have a dragon with 2-3 disks trailing

[Greenclaw1]

This revamp got me thinking some more. They say the reason for the idea of a cargo disk revamp is to reduce to grind. All they really need to do to reduce the grind is increase the XP earned curve through the levels, and increase the speed cargo disks can be pulled along at. That's all that needs to be done to reduce the grind nothing else as the systems and how it works is fine and doesn't need to be changed. It's as simple as that.

I really think time is best spend else where on improving the game at this point in time. One example is get mob distribution back to how good it was when Horizons shipped and reduce the over kill in some area's of unused biped plots, and give some things a graphic update or better work on a new client that uses direct x 9 so the client not limited by direct x 8.1.

[Terao]

Make the discs for gatherer / miner more powerfull and allow it to teleport and recall, it's the only benefit they have.

[Katscratch]

having a bunch of specific use only disks is a bad idea unless the bulk that disk takes up in inventory is reduced to something like the bulk of tools so that more of them can be carried without drastic cargo room or unless Cargo space is increased by a multiple of the heaviest disk

Thank You
Katscratch